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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I always loved how Bill Finger, Batman's co-creator, did some of the best tellings of Superman's origin. Just something I love about how Bill was such a workhorse writer, a writer's writer, toiling away at DC on various properties, leaving his mark.
    Batman's Bill Finger was one of the best writers the Man of Steel ever had. It seems to me that a significant portion of his Superman stories were keystone issues contributing to the mythology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Are these really that different? It feels like the overall architecture is the same. Aquaman has had a truly different origin. (I will not even acknowledge the changes to particular stunning brunette Amazon)
    I suppose that there's no need for a thread like this since almost every origin can be reduced to--

    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

    Well, maybe not "Kindly Couple" given that was not included in the original origin, in ACTION COMICS 1 (June 1938).

    But if we aren't supposed to talk about all those origins, what's the point of a message board?

    I didn't go into all the post-Crisis origins, as I figured other readers have a much better memory of those stories than I do, but surely there were other tellings of the origin between 1986 and 2001, no? The Byrne reboot starts with Superman in one place and the character evolves through different creative regimes to another iteration by SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS 1 - 4 (1998) from Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale. Didn't the origin get tweaked along the way?

    Some of the miniseries like THE WORLD OF KRYPTON (1987) and THE WORLD OF SMALLVILLE (1988) helped to flesh out Byrne's origin. And later, it seems to me, there were Secret Files and Origins one-shots that added context to whichever Superman we had at the time.

    Then there's all the origins in other media--SUPERBOY; LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN; SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES; SMALLVILLE; MAN OF STEEL.

    As for SUPERMAN: BIRTHRIGHT 1 - 12 (2003 - 2004) by Mark Waid, Leinil Francis Yu and Gerry Alanguilan--my understanding is this was never officially in continuity. There was talk of it becoming the new origin, but that never came to pass. So it counts as an Elseworld/Imaginary Story just like ALL STAR SUPERMAN 1 - 12 (2005 - 2008) by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely or SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE (2010) by J. Michael Straczynski and Shane Davis.

    If you count those, then other Elseworlds/Imaginary Stories need to be considered. Those are able to wander further afield and, while they might not be official, they can sometimes leak into the present continuity and steer the ship in a different direction. Likewise with the other media adaptations.

  2. #17
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Bill finger made lana lang..right?Some superboy stuff..
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post

    THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN (1942)--the novel by George Lowther.
    And, when the Radio Show was rebooted in 1942 (Were they called reboots in the 40s?) It ended in the beginning of '42 and came back that fall using the novel's origin: Eben and Sarah Kent, farm in Iowa, and it would be returned to a few times over the next decade.

    Also the 1952 Adventures of Superman TV show's first episode.

    The original Comic Strip origin was finally adapted into Secret Origins 1 in 1986. It was also retold a few times over the strip's 28 years.

    Anyway, personal favorites are either Superman 146 or Action Comics 500, for their comprehensiveness.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filbert View Post
    And, when the Radio Show was rebooted in 1942 (Were they called reboots in the 40s?) It ended in the beginning of '42 and came back that fall using the novel's origin: Eben and Sarah Kent, farm in Iowa, and it would be returned to a few times over the next decade.
    I didn't know that. I haven't got that far in listening to the radio show yet. Looking forward to hearing that when I do (if I can find them).

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Bill finger made lana lang..right?Some superboy stuff.
    Right.

    Bill Finger's major Super-Mythology:

    SUPERMAN 53 (July-August 1948)--"The Origin of Superman"--10th anniversary retelling of the origin with important added information.
    SUPERMAN 61 (November-December 1949)--"Superman Returns to Krypton"--Superman's first time trip to Krypton, learns his origins, first appearance of Kryptonite in a published comic book (the K-Metal story was unpublished, Kryptonite debuts on the radio show).
    SUPERBOY 8 (May-June 1950)--"When Superboy Was a Superbaby"--First Superbaby story, recounts origin, contradicts details in Finger's stories from SUPERMAN 53 and 61.
    SUPERBOY 10 (September-October 1950)--"The Girl in Superboy's Life"--First appearance of Lana Lang and Lewis Lang.
    SUPERMAN 96 (March 1955)--"The Girl Who Didn't Believe in Superman"--A blind girl doesn't believe the Man of Tomorrow exists and Superman learns how to perform a surgical procedure that will give her sight.
    SUPERMAN 100 (September1955)--"The Clue from Krypton"--100th issue, flashes back to Krypton's last days, its destruction and Kal-El's arrival on Earth.
    ADVENTURE COMICS 216 (September 1955)--"The Wizard City"--First "Krypton City" on Earth, tells how little Jimmy Olsen met Clark Kent/Superboy for the first time, first appearance of Jimmy's father.
    SUPERMAN 112 (March 1957)--"Superman's Neighbors"--First story to establish that Clark Kent lives at 344 Clinton Street.
    SUPERMAN 129 (May 1959)--"The Girl in Superman's Past"--First appearance of Lori Lemaris, flashes back on Clark Kent's college days.

    Maybe a few others.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    There's one that I particularly like from 1943 from the Sunder newspaper strips. It's basically the GA origin but it's a little more comprehensive.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filbert View Post
    And, when the Radio Show was rebooted in 1942 (Were they called reboots in the 40s?) It ended in the beginning of '42 and came back that fall using the novel's origin: Eben and Sarah Kent, farm in Iowa, and it would be returned to a few times over the next decade.

    Also the 1952 Adventures of Superman TV show's first episode.

    The original Comic Strip origin was finally adapted into Secret Origins 1 in 1986. It was also retold a few times over the strip's 28 years.

    Anyway, personal favorites are either Superman 146 or Action Comics 500, for their comprehensiveness.
    I was unaware the radio show eventually retdlconned the previous "arrived on earth as an adult" version of Superman origins. Interesting.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  7. #22
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    They were trying to standardize the brand then. That year there were also comic book stories about the cartoons, the strip, and the radio show. The comic strip, as mentioned, also retold the origin about then.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    (Rubs hands together) Okay, l consider this my territory. There are actually several Golden and Silver age origins.

    1938: This was in Action #1. It was one page and didn't mention either Krypton by name or have the Kents in it. He was found by a passing motorist with no name and turned over to an orphanage where he displayed his strength.

    1939: This was in Superman #1 and is the one most people are familiar with. It's the one that gets reprinted the most. It's the first time Krypton is mentioned by name and we meet the Kents. We get to see more of him growing up and we get to watch his parents die.

    1945: The origin of Superboy. This one appeared in More Fun #101 and isn't as well known but it is more or less a rehash of the 1939 where we get to see more of Krypton and a lot of the mythos that we are familiar with about Krypton gets established. Such as Kryptonians being stronger than humans.

    1949: This one is interesting in that it doesn't acknowledge Superboy existing at all even though he had his own book by that point. It hasn't been reprinted very often.

    1951-2(?): Never read this one but supposedly this is the first one that acknowledges Superboy exists.

    1961: This is what is generally considered the Silver Age origin. It combined various elements that were established in the comics from the fifties. Like his history as Superbaby and how he learned to fly and finding Krypto and learned about Krypton and Kryptonite.

    1973: Not sure this one is considered "canon" but it was through a special magazine that came out for the city of Metropolis. Curt Swan said at one point this was his favorite project and the art shows. It's basically an update of the 1949 origin with elements of the SA thrown in. I would recommend finding it just for the art. It's some of his best work.

    1979: This one was basically an update of the 1961 origin with a little more comprehensive detail and a Luthor story thrown in. Some of the dialogue is cringey but it works for what the time period.

    1986: Unless something was published between '79 and this, I don't know about it. This is the Byrne reboot to make Superman more "realistic". Having him "born" on Earth throwing out most of the SA elements like Superboy and his history with the Legion and other Kryptonian survivors.

    2001: Not sure if this is considered a "reboot" but the Return to Krypton storyline basically said "Oh, by the way, the whole SA Krypton really did exist and we fooled you so you wouldn't miss it". This would probably be considered the first real contradiction of the post-Crisis era.

    2003: Birthright. I'm still convinced that this was intended to be DC's version of the Ultimates universe and somebody (Didio) talked them into making it canon due to the success of Smallville. This was considered the first official hardcore reboot of the post-Crisis era. It's basically the Smallville origin put into the mainstream universe. With all the continuity problems that would go along with trying to do that to an ongoing series.

    2006: Sometime around the time of Infinite Crisis they tried to do a combination Birthright/post-Crisis origin that didn't quite work.

    2009: Secret Origin: I feel like this one was weaker than the rest because it tried too hard to be everything to everyone. It's "neo-Silver Age". It basically just felt like they were trying to come up with a way to incorporate all the SA elements they tried to put back in over the previous decade but just threw everything together all at once. Krypto arrives on Earth the same day he becomes Superboy? Really? That's convenient.

    2011-14: I'm gonna get dragged for this but I feel like New 52 did a better job of the "try to be all things to all people" thing better than Johns did. I included both years because his ACTUAL origin wasn't published until 2014. It was basically the GA origin with elements of the Legion thrown in (if it had a weak spot, I would say it was that. The Legion connection seemed forced to me).

    2016-???: Whatever the hell it is we have now. If some post-Rebirth definitive origin has been published, I don't know about it. This seems to be a hodge podge of everything closer to Johns origin though I have no idea if that's official.

    In terms of what the in universe explanation was for Birthright, it had something to do with Superboy Prime punching the Source Wall or something like that. It's more like "we made a bad editorial decision and have to cover our asses somehow".
    Yeah, this is pretty comprehensive.

    The 1948 origin in Superman # 53 was iirc the first ''full'' retelling of the origin story in the comic-books proper (prior to this, the comic strip, the radio show and the George Lowther novel had told the full story but not the comic-books). It set the base template for all the key milestones that needed to be covered in the origin - Krypton, the rocket being found by the Kents, Clark discovering his powers growing up, the death of the Kents, Clark adopting the identity of Superman and moving to Metropolis. Details would be added (Superboy) or removed (the death of the Kents) over time across different iterations, but these are broadly the bullet points that every origin-story has covered since.

    Its interesting that Doomsday Clock featured a panel from this origin (the iconic moment of Clark by Jonathan Kent's bedside) and retroactively established it as the origin of the Silver Age Superman after the first Metaverse 'shift'. The timeline established there put Jonathan's death in 1949 and Clark debuting as Superman in 1956.

    Quote Originally Posted by Filbert View Post
    And, when the Radio Show was rebooted in 1942 (Were they called reboots in the 40s?) It ended in the beginning of '42 and came back that fall using the novel's origin: Eben and Sarah Kent, farm in Iowa, and it would be returned to a few times over the next decade.

    Also the 1952 Adventures of Superman TV show's first episode.

    The original Comic Strip origin was finally adapted into Secret Origins 1 in 1986. It was also retold a few times over the strip's 28 years.

    Anyway, personal favorites are either Superman 146 or Action Comics 500, for their comprehensiveness.
    Secret Origins # 1 is a great mix of the comic-strip and the first story of Action Comics # 1, giving us the definitive origin of the Golden Age Superman.

  9. #24
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Batman's Bill Finger was one of the best writers the Man of Steel ever had. It seems to me that a significant portion of his Superman stories were keystone issues contributing to the mythology.



    I suppose that there's no need for a thread like this since almost every origin can be reduced to--

    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

    Well, maybe not "Kindly Couple" given that was not included in the original origin, in ACTION COMICS 1 (June 1938).

    But if we aren't supposed to talk about all those origins, what's the point of a message board?

    I didn't go into all the post-Crisis origins, as I figured other readers have a much better memory of those stories than I do, but surely there were other tellings of the origin between 1986 and 2001, no? The Byrne reboot starts with Superman in one place and the character evolves through different creative regimes to another iteration by SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS 1 - 4 (1998) from Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale. Didn't the origin get tweaked along the way?

    Some of the miniseries like THE WORLD OF KRYPTON (1987) and THE WORLD OF SMALLVILLE (1988) helped to flesh out Byrne's origin. And later, it seems to me, there were Secret Files and Origins one-shots that added context to whichever Superman we had at the time.

    Then there's all the origins in other media--SUPERBOY; LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN; SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES; SMALLVILLE; MAN OF STEEL.

    As for SUPERMAN: BIRTHRIGHT 1 - 12 (2003 - 2004) by Mark Waid, Leinil Francis Yu and Gerry Alanguilan--my understanding is this was never officially in continuity. There was talk of it becoming the new origin, but that never came to pass. So it counts as an Elseworld/Imaginary Story just like ALL STAR SUPERMAN 1 - 12 (2005 - 2008) by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely or SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE (2010) by J. Michael Straczynski and Shane Davis.

    If you count those, then other Elseworlds/Imaginary Stories need to be considered. Those are able to wander further afield and, while they might not be official, they can sometimes leak into the present continuity and steer the ship in a different direction. Likewise with the other media adaptations.
    Birthright actually was the Canon origin for about basically the length of time the Azzarello/Lee "For Tomorrow " was being published, as well as the Superman titles published during that period. They used the Birthright designs for Krypton whenever they did Flashbacks around this time, they made some references to Luthor having known Clark in Smallville and Martha and Jonathan Kent were suddenly depicted about 20 years younger to more closely match up with Birthright.


    Then Editorial at DC decided that BOTH Birthright and Byrne's Man of Steel were Canon (even if they contradicted each other in various ways) And basically let the readers choose which elements they prefer.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Birthright actually was the Canon origin for about basically the length of time the Azzarello/Lee "For Tomorrow " was being published, as well as the Superman titles published during that period. They used the Birthright designs for Krypton whenever they did Flashbacks around this time, they made some references to Luthor having known Clark in Smallville and Martha and Jonathan Kent were suddenly depicted about 20 years younger to more closely match up with Birthright.


    Then Editorial at DC decided that BOTH Birthright and Byrne's Man of Steel were Canon (even if they contradicted each other in various ways) And basically let the readers choose which elements they prefer.
    I think Birthright was the official origin around the time the rebooted Kara Zor-El first appeared in 2004. Because it wouldn't have been possible for her to exist with Byrne's Krypton.

  11. #26
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I think Birthright was the official origin around the time the rebooted Kara Zor-El first appeared in 2004. Because it wouldn't have been possible for her to exist with Byrne's Krypton.
    Which was around that same period. I believe the unofficial name of this relaunch was "superstorm". There was the Supergirl arc in Batman/Superman, For Tomorrow in SUPERMAN. The new teams on ACTION and ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, the LEX LUTHOR:MAN OF STEEL mini series, The Question mini series and there was something else planned that was canceled. The continuity between between books was all over the place but they made a big deal of trying to tie it all to BIRTHRIGHT.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 11-08-2022 at 04:50 AM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    (Rubs hands together) Okay, l consider this my territory. There are actually several Golden and Silver age origins.

    1938: This was in Action #1. It was one page and didn't mention either Krypton by name or have the Kents in it. He was found by a passing motorist with no name and turned over to an orphanage where he displayed his strength.

    1939: This was in Superman #1 and is the one most people are familiar with. It's the one that gets reprinted the most. It's the first time Krypton is mentioned by name and we meet the Kents. We get to see more of him growing up and we get to watch his parents die.

    1945:
    The origin of Superboy. This one appeared in More Fun #101 and isn't as well known but it is more or less a rehash of the 1939 where we get to see more of Krypton and a lot of the mythos that we are familiar with about Krypton gets established. Such as Kryptonians being stronger than humans.

    1949: This one is interesting in that it doesn't acknowledge Superboy existing at all even though he had his own book by that point. It hasn't been reprinted very often.

    1951-2(?): Never read this one but supposedly this is the first one that acknowledges Superboy exists.

    1961: This is what is generally considered the Silver Age origin. It combined various elements that were established in the comics from the fifties. Like his history as Superbaby and how he learned to fly and finding Krypto and learned about Krypton and Kryptonite.

    1973: Not sure this one is considered "canon" but it was through a special magazine that came out for the city of Metropolis. Curt Swan said at one point this was his favorite project and the art shows. It's basically an update of the 1949 origin with elements of the SA thrown in. I would recommend finding it just for the art. It's some of his best work.

    1979: This one was basically an update of the 1961 origin with a little more comprehensive detail and a Luthor story thrown in. Some of the dialogue is cringey but it works for what the time period.

    1986: Unless something was published between '79 and this, I don't know about it. This is the Byrne reboot to make Superman more "realistic". Having him "born" on Earth throwing out most of the SA elements like Superboy and his history with the Legion and other Kryptonian survivors.

    2001: Not sure if this is considered a "reboot" but the Return to Krypton storyline basically said "Oh, by the way, the whole SA Krypton really did exist and we fooled you so you wouldn't miss it". This would probably be considered the first real contradiction of the post-Crisis era.

    2003: Birthright. I'm still convinced that this was intended to be DC's version of the Ultimates universe and somebody (Didio) talked them into making it canon due to the success of Smallville. This was considered the first official hardcore reboot of the post-Crisis era. It's basically the Smallville origin put into the mainstream universe. With all the continuity problems that would go along with trying to do that to an ongoing series.

    2006: Sometime around the time of Infinite Crisis they tried to do a combination Birthright/post-Crisis origin that didn't quite work.

    2009: Secret Origin: I feel like this one was weaker than the rest because it tried too hard to be everything to everyone. It's "neo-Silver Age". It basically just felt like they were trying to come up with a way to incorporate all the SA elements they tried to put back in over the previous decade but just threw everything together all at once. Krypto arrives on Earth the same day he becomes Superboy? Really? That's convenient.

    2011-14: I'm gonna get dragged for this but I feel like New 52 did a better job of the "try to be all things to all people" thing better than Johns did. I included both years because his ACTUAL origin wasn't published until 2014. It was basically the GA origin with elements of the Legion thrown in (if it had a weak spot, I would say it was that. The Legion connection seemed forced to me).

    2016-???: Whatever the hell it is we have now. If some post-Rebirth definitive origin has been published, I don't know about it. This seems to be a hodge podge of everything closer to Johns origin though I have no idea if that's official.

    In terms of what the in universe explanation was for Birthright, it had something to do with Superboy Prime punching the Source Wall or something like that. It's more like "we made a bad editorial decision and have to cover our asses somehow".
    Yes, I had that concept before too. SUperman origin has been rewrote several times since before the crisis.
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  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I've been wondering (for no real reason) if there were a way to have our cake and eat it too when it comes to streamlining origins. Not that there's a problem with the variety that exists, but when contemplating media adaptations and such, I start to try and find ways to reconcile and shoehorn certain contradictions. For me the two biggest divergences are:

    Did Superboy (and the Legion) ever happen?
    Are the Kents alive when Clark becomes Superman?

    The first one can be reconciled a mind-wipe and/or time travel hijinks. I'm imagining a story that starts out on the farm, Clark trying out his powers under parental supervision, perhaps in a makeshift costume, and the Legion pop out of nowhere and nab him for an adventure. Maybe the flight legion ring helps him get a handle on flying which he can't quite do yet. Once the adventure is over, the Legion realizes that the timeline will be disrupted if he goes back with certain knowledge of the future, so they erase his memory. He wakes up in the cornfield of the Kent farm, right where he was first abducted. He has a vague memory of flying and being a fully-fleged costume hero, signified by his looking at the sky, or maybe the Legion ring that is mysteriously left in his pocket, but he doesn't quite remember why. (This moment can also be a slight rewind to before he was Superboy, having Clark subconsciously delay that experience until he's a man since he knows that's the age he's known for in the future.)

    The second one is a little bit trickier. It led me to ask: what if Clark believed his parents to be dead, only they weren't? That way, when Clark decides to become Superman, its his own decision, but later in life, he can have the Kents in his life. What if the government made them appear to be sick, and ultimately abducted them on suspicion that they were hiding extraterrestrial technology in their possession? (This is probably too fan-fictiony for most, and I recall people not liking the Peter Parker retcon of his parents' deaths in Amazing Spider-Man 2, but I prefer it to resurrections and other extra-dimensional loopholes for death).

    Just some random musings.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I think there's a good reason we still don't know what his current origin is. They haven't worked out what to keep and what not yet.
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    In the next Superman series by Williamson, will be clarify the elements of the origin.
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