Thoughts on possible retconning the sequel trilogy

[80sbaby]

Did not Pasha say that a close friend of his that is one Jon Favreau inner cycle/ and told him something?

You think "Trust me, I know a guy" is a credible source?

[Rincewind]

Overlord DVD ...

Gonna stop right there.

No. There is no chance whatsoever. 0%. None. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having read that. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[j9ac9k]

I think unless you're seriously upset by what those movies did to Luke, Han and Leia there's no point in retconning it - just move on with new stories and new characters. (I wouldn't even mind if those characters came back in better movies)

[ChrisIII]

Han dying was something Ford always kind of wanted to happen with his character I think, as far back as ESB. Hamill, probably not so much. Carrie of course was unavoidable.

[Jokerz79]

Han dying was something Ford always kind of wanted to happen with his character I think, as far back as ESB. Hamill, probably not so much. Carrie of course was unavoidable.

When I saw how happy Harrison was on the TFA press tour doing interviews and talk shows I said to myself "Han's a Dead Man" lol

[Citizen Kane]

If you would have told me 20 years ago anyone would consider the Prequels better than the original trilogy and that the Prequels was their Star Wars, I would have called you crazy.

But here we are a generation who grew up on them and that's their SW. One day the Sequels will get love.

Doubtful. At the heart of the prequels, there's an actual logical and emotional story—people can look passed some of the schlock with Jar Jar Binks and so on. Conversely, the sequels are entirely nonsensical and emotionless. The only reason OT fans were so put off with the PT was because it was a wild tone shift for them going from the OT to the PT.

[Bruce Wayne]

Plus Lucas spent a fortune rehabilitating the prequels with The Clone Wars series. There's no appetite to do something like that with the current leadership.

[Jokerz79]

Doubtful. At the heart of the prequels, there's an actual logical and emotional story—people can look passed some of the schlock with Jar Jar Binks and so on. Conversely, the sequels are entirely nonsensical and emotionless. The only reason OT fans were so put off with the PT was because it was a wild tone shift for them going from the OT to the PT.

OT fan 20 years old when TPM came out and they were just bad from day one I was in film school at the time, and I remember the rection Hell I remember a local radio show saying how dumb that film was, and I went in hyped with high hopes.

Tone, Schlock and JarJar wasn't why we hated the prequels they were the cherries on top it was the fact the films had no heart or logic.

The plots made no sense once you add common sense to them and never once did, I believe from those films Anakin and Obi-Wan were friends or even like each other I also couldn't believe Padme loved Anakin and Portman and Christianson had no chemistry.

I mean every time Anakin and Obi-Wan left a room they immediately complained about one another. Then there's Padme a woman who didn't want to form an army to stop the separatist threat falls in love with a guy with Stalker Vibes who confesses to murdering women and children.

Vader built C3PO really!

The Republic just happens to find a Clone Army on Kamino right when it needed it, and no one questions this?

I get the Trade Federation wants Padme dead but seriously no one in the Separatist thought maybe killing the Senator fighting to stop the Republic from creating an Army wasn't a good idea. This is their enemy, and she doesn't want them to build an army to fight them like kill her after you won.

Seriously JarJar is the least of the Prequels issue although if you remove the Gungan battle in TPM and just concentrate on the fight in the capital, the fight with Maul, and the space battle there is no need for the Gungans or JarJar.

[godisawesome]

The PT has execution issues out the wazzoo, but is cohesive, has a deep and clever plot, and was written to enhance the OT - and Lucas himself was always more interested in getting Millenials into the franchise than in appealing Gen Xers or Boomers.

So while there are Millenials who dislike it, they’re far more cohesive in loving it, and if you didn’t like it, it wasn’t shitting on the OT, and since it’s all one cohesive piece, it can more easily be supplemented by other material (and in fact the era is arguably more successful than the OT in that respect.

In contrast, the ST has great execution on a technical level, but is also a self-contradicting mess as a plot, was written and made by Gen-Xers trying to “set things right” who wound up spending most of their time arguing with each other, and ultimately burned most of the characters it was appealing to youngsters with in the first place… and ultimately wound up shitting on the OT for it, especially in and because of The Last Jedi, a parasitic film only able to justify itself because of the work of Lucas, Kasdan, and Abrams, even as it perpetually shits on them, while also taking pot shots at the audience.

So while there are definitely fans of it among Millenials, Zoomers, Gen-Xers, and Boomers… it skews more heavily towards older fans and often has even those fans at each other’s throats over the new characters, and has run off just as many, killed that era for future products in the foreseeable future, and just isn’t really notable to Zoomers as a whole.

And most of the goodwill the ST still has is split between fans of TFA pissed off at TLJ for screwing over Rey, Finn, Poe, and Luke against fans of TLJ willing to screw over everything else for more stories of selfish white dudes with boring problems.

Lucas, LFL, Disney, and everyone else knew how to “fix up” the PT to make it still profitable and beloved long after the PT itself was over - aside from TCW, Obi-Wan and Bad Batch, you’ve got Lucas clearly getting more analytical about his audience so that Jar Jar retreated into the background and so that Revenge of the Sith was generally the most successful non-OT film, while countless comic and book wirters fleshed out the Clone Wars into a conflict in other media that people love, and no one thinks that Lucas hated Anakin or Obi-Wan, and everyone respects the PT’s Palpatine.

But no-one knows how to make the ST still profitable and beloved because even the creators can’t agree on the ST’s story and characters - is Rey a toughened scavenger and our hero, or a naive girl we’re supposed to enjoy seeing being shoved into an abusive relationship? Is Finn a complex, dynamic Everyman hero we can all get behind, or an inconvenient distraction from Adam Driver’s lip-wobble game? Is Kylo Ren Vader with the brakes cut off into full madness, or just a bit of cosplaying that Ben Solo does before being the black hole everything revolves around? And it’s really hard to not think that Rian Johnson hated Luke Skywalker, or at least the idea of Luke Skywalker that clearly more people had than him.

This is why I think that eventually either :

- They decide to start de-facto ignoring TLJ by strictly confining it’s priorities and ideas to itself and the bare minimum of backstory required, and just contradict it out the wazoo before and after, with successful students of Luke making it past Ben Solo’s rampage, Palpatine being truly broken beyond repair by ROTJ and actually acknowledging the stupidity of TROS’s plot as lore to back that up, Finn getting respectable sagas to himself, havjng Rey acknoweldge that she is traumatized by a toxic brainwashing that forced her to care about Ben Solo, and we donkt watse time trying to tell Ben Solo’s story and maybe even get hidden kids from either him or Luke,

Or…

- They refuse to touch a film they desperately wanted to matter, but since they don’t actually want to deal with the consequences, we just have a giant black hole in the timeline where nothing is published, Luke is basically “benched” for all of the post-ROTJ timeline, and we never see those ST actors really get a comeback story in the franchise.

I genuinely can’t see LFL actually trying to make the background TLJ wants happen, nor it’s desired fall-out - it’s neither profitable, nor is it something they actually want to look at closely, considering they refused to look at TLJ closely itself.

[Citizen Kane]

OT fan 20 years old when TPM came out and they were just bad from day one I was in film school at the time, and I remember the rection Hell I remember a local radio show saying how dumb that film was, and I went in hyped with high hopes.

Tone, Schlock and JarJar wasn't why we hated the prequels they were the cherries on top it was the fact the films had no heart or logic.

The plots made no sense once you add common sense to them and never once did, I believe from those films Anakin and Obi-Wan were friends or even like each other I also couldn't believe Padme loved Anakin and Portman and Christianson had no chemistry.

I mean every time Anakin and Obi-Wan left a room they immediately complained about one another. Then there's Padme a woman who didn't want to form an army to stop the separatist threat falls in love with a guy with Stalker Vibes who confesses to murdering women and children.

Vader built C3PO really!

The Republic just happens to find a Clone Army on Kamino right when it needed it, and no one questions this?

I get the Trade Federation wants Padme dead but seriously no one in the Separatist thought maybe killing the Senator fighting to stop the Republic from creating an Army wasn't a good idea. This is their enemy, and she doesn't want them to build an army to fight them like kill her after you won.

Seriously JarJar is the least of the Prequels issue although if you remove the Gungan battle in TPM and just concentrate on the fight in the capital, the fight with Maul, and the space battle there is no need for the Gungans or JarJar.

I think your issue with the PT boils down to what's believable. Did I believe Obi-Wan and Anakin were friends? Yes, in a mentor and student type of way. Did I believe Anakin and Padme loved each other? Yes, because awkwardness is not something that's absent from relationships, especially not in their special circumstances. Did I believe Vader built C-3PO? Sure, why the hell not? And some of your other points were more or less explained in the films: the trade federation was run by petty bureaucrats, and the senate actually did think it was strange there was a clone army ready, but they were so ready for war, they didn't care and just swept it under the rug to deal with later. All of it was believable, and most importantly, all of it contributed to the narrative of the trilogy.

Now, The issue with the ST doesn't start until TLJ, where everything becomes incoherent from an actual scriptwriting perspective. Why was it necessary to have almost a third of the movie about a sideplot on a casino planet that had no effect on the main story, let alone the narrative? What was the point of spaceship chase? Aside from the stuff with Rey, Luke, and Kylo, probably only a third of the movie, everything else provided nothing to the overarching narrative. And if we're comparing it to the OT or PT, almost every moment of those movies contributes to the overall narrative, even the gungan battle scene, while more than half of TLJ is pointless. Let's not even get into to the portrayal of Luke or the film TRoS. Aside from TFA, the ST was a narrative mess. I don't see it ever becoming "the PT" of the next generation.

[Jokerz79]

I genuinely like TFA.

In another thread I went into detail why I hate TLJ which I hate more than the Prequels.

TROS is a mess but since I like Poe, Finn, BB8, and Rey I can enjoy it and Palpatine is a fun villain to watch.

Disney Prequels I really like Rogue One it's the only Prequel film to make me want to watch ANH after watching it.

I have enjoyed Rebels, Obi-Wan and Andor. I even enjoy Solo even with that cringy name scene.

To be fair to Lucas I also like the animated Clone Wars Series.

But the Prequel films I just can't I try every few years to rewatch them and I always end up turning them off I can never sit thru any of them all the way thru. & this isn't a new thing for me or revisionist history AOTC broke me like TLJ broke some other fans to the point I didn't see ROTS in theaters. That's why I stand by just because we think something is "****" now doesn't mean generations who grow up on it won't feel differently.

[superduperman]

I think the best you can hope for is that someone at Disney comes forward and says that it's just one potential future of the franchise. And it's not carved in stone. But I wouldn't count on that.

[Bruce Wayne]

That's why I stand by just because we think something is "****" now doesn't mean generations who grow up on it won't feel differently.

The problem is this generation doesn't exist. For zoomers: their SW is the MCU. The merchandising for TLJ bombed because ultimately the OT/PT generation were the only ones buying all the merchandising and then Lucasfilm had the good idea of alienating them.

[Jokerz79]

The problem is this generation doesn't exist. For zoomers: their SW is the MCU. The merchandising for TLJ bombed because ultimately the OT/PT generation were the only ones buying all the merchandising and then Lucasfilm had the good idea of alienating them.

Prequels fans grew up with Harry Potter so yeah, the idea because the MCU exist means there are no Sequel fans for kids of this generation doesn't make sense. I HATE the Prequels but can take my ego out of it and admit they have a huge fanbase. People need to get out of echo chambers look at history and admit there is a possibility of people growing up and liking something they hate.

[thwhtGuardian]

The problem is this generation doesn't exist. For zoomers: their SW is the MCU. The merchandising for TLJ bombed because ultimately the OT/PT generation were the only ones buying all the merchandising and then Lucasfilm had the good idea of alienating them.

That doesn't track at all. Rey costumes have been up there with Elsa and Anna as the best-selling Halloween costumes pretty much since TFA first came out.

So it isn't that merch sales are bad because nobody liked the films...they're bad because the demographic is changing. Kids these days just aren't big on action figures the way they used to be and companies are slow to adjust.