The “New” History of the JSA: *New Golden Age SPOILERS*

[InfamousBG]

There may be a lot of JSA-related material coming up, but I think I'll hold off on "the future looks bright" until I get a better feel for what Geoff Johns is doing to them story-wise.
And also if / how / when we get a better definition regarding their past history and what still is or isn't in play.

I agree. I am just going in with a open heart at this point because it has been so long.

[astro@work]

I agree. I am just going in with a open heart at this point because it has been so long.

Same, it's been almost 12 years since we had a series about the real JSA. I am ready!

[MajorHoy]

Same, it's been almost 12 years since we had a series about the real JSA. I am ready!

But how much of the "real JSA" we get in the first issue of the new series remains to be seen . . . tomorrow we find out.

[astro@work]

But how much of the "real JSA" we get in the first issue of the new series remains to be seen . . . tomorrow we find out.

Based on the preview pages, they seem to be moving through the future story pretty quickly. Thinking Huntress will land in the present fairly quickly in the story, and we'll learn about the current team as she learns about them. And there is a lot to learn based on the JSA being (mostly) missing for the last 12 years. Fairly optimistic the Huntress meets the JSA moment won't be the very last page!

[Filbert]

My take on Infinity Inc: if we're going with the notion that the pre-Crisis Earth-2 stuff happened on the mainstream Earth in the 20th century (with the exception of the Golden Age Superman, Batman, Robin, and Huntress) while something resembling the pre-Crisis Earth-1 stuff happened on the mainstream Earth on a floating timeline that starts with Superman's debut in Metropolis roughly twenty years ago, then it follows that any pre-Crisis interactions between Earth 1 and Earth 2 that are still in continuity have to be treated as time travel crossovers, from Flash of Two Worlds (now effectively Flash of Two Eras) all the way up to the Crisis on Infinite Earths itself. That means that the Crisis on Infinite Earths actually took place both in 1985 and “fifteen years ago”. And the second to last issue, when all of the surviving heroes of the Multiverse woke up to find themselves on a single Earth, becomes the point that Infinity Inc., and their co-workers, transitioned from 1985 to “fifteen years ago”.

That leaves a seventeen year (and growing) gap between the 20th century end of the First Crisis and Superman's debut in Metropolis, kicking off the modern age of heroes. That gap is likely to mostly be empty, with a handful of notable exceptions such as Superman's teen career as Superboy and the adventures of Cameron Chase's Justice Experience; but unless something gets retconned into this gap, it serves mainly as setup for the modern age of heroes.

This arrangement has the benefit of being sustainable in the long term: it doesn't matter how big the gap between the end of the 20th century age of heroes and the dawn of the modern age of heroes gets; the fact that “everyone” ended up in the “present” at the end of the First Crisis means that you don't need any further explanation for how a relatively young Rick Tyler can be both the current Hourman and the son of the Rex Tyler who was Hourman way back in 1940. It's also something that could be explained with a single page worth of panels: one showing a scene from Flash of Two Worlds with a caption about how Barry had accidentally gone back in time to meet Jay; another showing the first meeting of the JSA and JLA with a caption about how the two eras became linked and that for a time there were periodic crossings between them; and a third showing, say, a scene of Infinity Inc. and the New Titans together on the post-Crisis Earth with a caption saying that that link eventually snapped and that when that happened, many from the 20th century found themselves pulled forward in time to the modern era.

That actually kinda makes sense. Such a timeline.
1940-JSA
1951-JSA retire
1961-Flash of Two Worlds, time travel
1963-First of 25 JLA-JSA time-traveling-team-ups. When they recover the Seven Soldiers of victory, GA and Speedy go to modern era, Star-Spangled Kid and Stripesy go to JSA era.
1976-Super-Squad (Power Girl lost Kryptonian colonist? Time travel? They know about Krypton from Superman)
1984-Infinity Inc.
1985-COIE. Superheroes missing, presumed dead.
****Modern Time****sliding time, 2 years outside, 1 year in***
42 years ago-Superman
31 years ago-Flash, JLA
30 years ago-JLA, first of 25 time-traveling-team-ups with JSA
18 years ago-COIE. JSA, et al. come to modern era.

[Dataweaver]

That actually kinda makes sense. Such a timeline.
1940-JSA
1951-JSA retire
1961-Flash of Two Worlds, time travel
1963-First of 25 JLA-JSA time-traveling-team-ups. When they recover the Seven Soldiers of victory, GA and Speedy go to modern era, Star-Spangled Kid and Stripesy go to JSA era.
1976-Super-Squad (Power Girl lost Kryptonian colonist? Time travel? They know about Krypton from Superman)
1984-Infinity Inc.
1985-COIE. Superheroes missing, presumed dead.
****Modern Time****sliding time, 2 years outside, 1 year in***
42 years ago-Superman
31 years ago-Flash, JLA
30 years ago-JLA, first of 25 time-traveling-team-ups with JSA
18 years ago-COIE. JSA, et al. come to modern era.

Ummm… I think I get what you're going for with your “sliding timescale” dates: you're figuring that a year on the sliding timescale is the same as a year in the 20th century, so that the same amount of time passes for the JLA between two team ups as passes for the JSA.

But no. The sliding timeline is also a compressed timeline. Remember, Roy Thomas had Earth 2 operating on “real time”; but he had no say over how time on Earth 1 operated; and while time did pass on Earth 1, it didn't pass nearly as fast as it did on Earth 2. By my estimations, everything from the founding of the JLA to the Crisis on Infinite Earths couldn't have taken more than ten years on the sliding timeline, and was probably closer to six or eight years. That gives roughly three or four months passing on average for the JLA for every year that passed for the JSA. (My reasoning for this has to do with the ages of the Titans, who were in their early, maybe mid, teens near the beginning of this window, and were in their late teens to early twenties by the time of the Crisis on Infinite Earths. When setting dates on the sliding timeline, you should look to the kids for guidance; they tend to place the most strict requirements, due to their tendency to grow up as time passes.)

[bat39]

Ummm… I think I get what you're going for with your “sliding timescale” dates: you're figuring that a year on the sliding timescale is the same as a year in the 20th century, so that the same amount of time passes for the JLA between two team ups as passes for the JSA.

But no. The sliding timeline is also a compressed timeline. Remember, Roy Thomas had Earth 2 operating on “real time”; but he had no say over how time on Earth 1 operated; and while time did pass on Earth 1, it didn't pass nearly as fast as it did on Earth 2. By my estimations, everything from the founding of the JLA to the Crisis on Infinite Earths couldn't have taken more than ten years on the sliding timeline, and was probably closer to six or eight years. That gives roughly three or four months passing on average for the JLA for every year that passed for the JSA. (My reasoning for this has to do with the ages of the Titans, who were in their early, maybe mid, teens near the beginning of this window, and were in their late teens to early twenties by the time of the Crisis on Infinite Earths. When setting dates on the sliding timeline, you should look to the kids for guidance; they tend to place the most strict requirements, due to their tendency to grow up as time passes.)

Precisely.

I use Batman's age as the peg for the Pre-COIE timeline.

Bruce, back in Pre-COIE continuity (both Earth 1 and Earth 2) became Batman sometime after leaving college. 'Tec # 33 puts his first year as Batman 'some 15 years' after the death of his parents, which is typically said to occur once he's 8. So Bruce was around 23 when he became Batman.

The 1984 Batman Special with Wrath had the Wayne murders happening 25 years ago. Ergo, Bruce is 33 and it's been around 10 years since he became Batman. And COIE happens shortly thereafter.

[DABellWrites]

It returns a female to the Golden Age Justice Society of America line-up without drastically altering the past. Originally, Black Canary didn't become involved with the JSA until All-Star Comics #38 (December 1947-January 1948), but Diana had been present (even if she wasn't always a major participant) with the group starting with issue #11 (I believe) in 1942. Expanding Diana's role would be less of a drastic change than retroactively introducing a new female member during the earlier period of the JSA.

What does Diana bring to the JSA? In my opinion, I think you'll get way more out of Superman and Batman since their stories with the group is largely unexplored still.

It also keeps a big name character in the Justice Society, a character the general public already knows and who can sustain their own series.

They did that with the JL Dark, lasted 29 issues, way less more than the New52.

[Dataweaver]

What does Diana bring to the JSA? In my opinion, I think you'll get way more out of Superman and Batman since their stories with the group is largely unexplored still.

Their stories with the group are “largely unexplored” because, historically, they were largely nonexistent: in the initial 1940s run, Superman and Batman appeared twice: once to be given “honorary membership”, and a second time as part of a fundraising campaign. By contrast, Wonder Woman joined the group within the first year of publication, and was an active member throughout most of the initial run.

So there's precedent for Wonder Woman being there, but not for Superman or Batman.

[Factor]

I think I found a way to explain the PG in the 70s retcon, using the Metaverse and making Golden Age Superman still somewhat relevant to the current continuity.
So if we consider the current Earth 0 is the same Earth where Golden Age Superman debuted in the 30s, but altered through multiverse shenanigans to get to the Earth we have now, what if Power Girl is actually the cousin of the original Golden Age Superman, lost in the current continuity due to Hypertime anomalies?
While the whole Earth's history changed so that Superman debuted much later, PG could end up being a timeline refugee just like Huntress.
Just like Huntress will end up being a refugee from a future that will never happened, PG could be a refugee from the past who initially lost her memories of where she came from.
I like this solution because it maintains a parallel between Huntress and PG's origins and finds a way to have PG still be a Superman legacy, even thought technically she would have debuted before Superman in the Metaverse's revised timeline.
It would also make the main continuity's JSA basically independent from Earth-2, since PG is their biggest remaining tie to it.

[Dataweaver]

That's pretty much my take on it as well, with the added detail that Power Girl found out about this in Infinite Crisis, when she met the Golden Age Superman and regained her memories of her original timeline.

[Factor]

That's pretty much my take on it as well, with the added detail that Power Girl found out about this in Infinite Crisis, when she met the Golden Age Superman and regained her memories of her original timeline.

I guess that could work. It would be even better if Huntress somehow transports her to Crisis so she isn't around for ages before she's relevant again.
The one thing that would still bug me is that her not remembering Superman takes away a very important part of her character, which is her deciding to be her own superhero instead of closely following the legacy of her cousin. Having her forget Superman removes that decision from her, which goes against the feminist themes she's supposed to be about.

[DABellWrites]

Their stories with the group are “largely unexplored” because, historically, they were largely nonexistent: in the initial 1940s run, Superman and Batman appeared twice: once to be given “honorary membership”, and a second time as part of a fundraising campaign. By contrast, Wonder Woman joined the group within the first year of publication, and was an active member throughout most of the initial run.

So there's precedent for Wonder Woman being there, but not for Superman or Batman.

That's my point. It's only using Diana for historical context. Beyond that, what value does she bring to the team? At least with JLD, I can see why she was added. Anyways, I think that's enough. Going to see what Johns will do next.

[bat39]

I think I found a way to explain the PG in the 70s retcon, using the Metaverse and making Golden Age Superman still somewhat relevant to the current continuity.
So if we consider the current Earth 0 is the same Earth where Golden Age Superman debuted in the 30s, but altered through multiverse shenanigans to get to the Earth we have now, what if Power Girl is actually the cousin of the original Golden Age Superman, lost in the current continuity due to Hypertime anomalies?
While the whole Earth's history changed so that Superman debuted much later, PG could end up being a timeline refugee just like Huntress.
Just like Huntress will end up being a refugee from a future that will never happened, PG could be a refugee from the past who initially lost her memories of where she came from.
I like this solution because it maintains a parallel between Huntress and PG's origins and finds a way to have PG still be a Superman legacy, even thought technically she would have debuted before Superman in the Metaverse's revised timeline.
It would also make the main continuity's JSA basically independent from Earth-2, since PG is their biggest remaining tie to it.

That's pretty much my take on it as well, with the added detail that Power Girl found out about this in Infinite Crisis, when she met the Golden Age Superman and regained her memories of her original timeline.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I see it.

I think Power Girl's new history on Earth 0 can be a great mix of her Earth 2 history (working with the JSA in the 70's) and her Post-COIE history (not remembering her true origins for awhile).

In the context of the current iteration of the Metaverse, Power Girl's Symbioship basically appears out of nowhere as a spatial-temporal anomaly and crashes on earth in the early 1970's. She's discovered by the JSA and taken in by them, becoming a member as Power Girl in 1976. She doesn't remember much about her past, beyond the name 'Kara' and some vague visions of an alien world. She adopts the identity of 'Karen Starr'.

Then whatever timey-wimey incident/Limbo (COIE?) that transplants the JSA from the 80's to 10-15 years ago on the sliding timescale happens and Power Girl ends up in a world where Superman exists. She starts to suspect that she may be from Krypton and is Superman's cousin, but tests prove otherwise. Maybe around this time, she starts to believe the Atlantean origin?

A few years ago (around 5 years maybe?), some variation of the events of IC occur and she meets the Earth 2 Superman, Kal-L, and remembers her life in the Earth 2 timeline as well as her true origins.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah, this is pretty much how I see it.

I think Power Girl's new history on Earth 0 can be a great mix of her Earth 2 history (working with the JSA in the 70's) and her Post-COIE history (not remembering her true origins for awhile).

In the context of the current iteration of the Metaverse, Power Girl's Symbioship basically appears out of nowhere as a spatial-temporal anomaly and crashes on earth in the early 1970's. She's discovered by the JSA and taken in by them, becoming a member as Power Girl in 1976. She doesn't remember much about her past, beyond the name 'Kara' and some vague visions of an alien world. She adopts the identity of 'Karen Starr'.

Then whatever timey-wimey incident/Limbo (COIE?) that transplants the JSA from the 80's to 10-15 years ago on the sliding timescale happens and Power Girl ends up in a world where Superman exists. She starts to suspect that she may be from Krypton and is Superman's cousin, but tests prove otherwise. Maybe around this time, she starts to believe the Atlantean origin?

A few years ago (around 5 years maybe?), some variation of the events of IC occur and she meets the Earth 2 Superman, Kal-L, and remembers her life in the Earth 2 timeline as well as her true origins.

Bear in mind that by the time Power Girl showed up in 1976, the JSA had been teaming up with the JLA for over a decade; which meant that they were already potentially familiar with Kryptonians from hearing about them from the 21st century Superman. So the suspicion that she might be Kryptonian could start as early as 1976. Canonically, the Atlantean theory was introduced right after the Crisis; and if that's to be kept, I'd keep it right there.

Frankly, the likes said about her history between the Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis, the better; those were not good years for her.