The “New” History of the JSA: *New Golden Age SPOILERS*

[Digifiend]

That's not really a disagreement. “Realistically”, someone with the power of Superman or Wonder Woman could have ended WWII. In general, they don't; because that's not the sort of stories that superhero comics usually tell Frankly, the only title I've ever seen where the “superheroes” decided to take matters into their own hands like that was The Authority.

It isn't a slight on Diana that she didn't.

Doesn't Marvel have a story involving the golden age Human Torch being involved in Hitler's demise? It still happened at the same time as his real life suicide though, so the war didn't finish early.

[Triniking1234]

Your idea of WW is the generic warrior angry type. Not a good look. Also enough with sword and shield. With her Godly powers and classic gear, she should end war world 2 by herself easily.

I mean on every DC timeline the Axis Powers had their own superhumans and other anti-superhero measures so it wouldn't have been easy.

[Midnight_v]

Wrong, her fans want her to be the way she's portrayed by writers who actually like and get her character (Marston, Perez, Jimenez, Rucka, Heinberg, Simone, Orlando). And no, her villains are not garbage. She has one of the best and most diverse Rogues Galleries out there. But you have to actually read her book to know that

Fam. The villain's look lame from an outside perspective saying read her book isn't going to bring people in. You're not compelling inherently from an outside perspective or more people would be reading it.

Also vandal savage being AJSA villain could beSignal boost for her.

And no no one's going to suddenly accept suddenly except Wonder Woman beating the hell out of Superman and Batman.
Which apparently is what a couple of you guys are clamoring for at least.
It's just not gonna happen. Supes beats other heroes he shouldn't like Captain Atom, and Shazam. Bruce... bruce beat darkside.... and everyone really ... so give that up...that off the table understand if you want or care about that franchise you have to give her something that isn't that.

Wonder Woman has appeal just by virtue of being Wonder Woman and No one is going to take Hercules and big head guy serious you can get away with Ares because he has gravitas outside the book.
If you don't change what she's been doing the situation will stay the same.
Appeasing her fans isn't enough and the start is to give her villains that really matter

Circe and the cat girl but just not big enough...

[Alpha]

It also says that every time this Earth's timeline skips forward, it also splits and creates a copy of the timeline before the skip. But that's irrelevant to the “Everything Happened” concept, whereas “the timeline is constantly skipping forward” concept — the Metaverse — is the heart of the “Everything Happened” concept. All that Snyder and Williamson did was to have people remember the multiple iterations.

I take back what I said. I re read Doomsday Clock 10 and you were right and I was wrong. It outright states that the metaverse is one universe whose history is constantly being rewritten.

So I have to give Geoff Johns some credit and he would thusly be perfectly in line with "Everything Happened".

The idea of people remembering their past lives isn't a big conceptual jump from that.

Having said that, those two things are still worlds apart as a writing mechanic. Wonder Woman remembering her many lives makes a huge difference compared to all the retcons being invisible.

[Agent Z]

Fam. The villain's look lame from an outside perspective saying read her book isn't going to bring people in. You're not compelling inherently from an outside perspective or more people would be reading it.

If people are basing their assumptions on no evidence but their own biases, that isn't the books fault. Writers have written all kinds of compelling stories with them, so people can only cite their own perspective as an excuse for so long.

Also vandal savage being AJSA villain could beSignal boost for her.

How? For all that he's touted as a big deal, Vandal Savage has never been a major draw and is more of a niche character than anything. As seen in one comment, there are people who just see him as a poor man's Ra's al Ghul despite predating the latter.

And no no one's going to suddenly accept suddenly except Wonder Woman beating the hell out of Superman and Batman.

The Hiketeia has her beating Batman and that book got Rucka an Eisner nomination.

Wonder Woman has appeal just by virtue of being Wonder Woman and No one is going to take Hercules or so serious

Says who? If God of War can get away with a villainous Hercules, so can Wonder Woman who did it for decades before that game franchise existed.

Searcy and the cat girl but just not big enough

Neither is Vandal Savage.

[Dr. Poison]

I mean on every DC timeline the Axis Powers had their own superhumans and other anti-superhero measures so it wouldn't have been easy.

There were several Axis-connected villains that could give Wonder Woman a proper physical challenge:


Baron Blitzkrieg(already has)
Gundra(already has)
Ubermensch
Captain Nazi
Sumo The Samurai
Kung

[Dataweaver]

Fam. The villain's look lame from an outside perspective saying read her book isn't going to bring people in. You're not compelling inherently from an outside perspective or more people would be reading it.

Also vandal savage being AJSA villain could beSignal boost for her.

And no no one's going to suddenly accept suddenly except Wonder Woman beating the hell out of Superman and Batman.
Which apparently is what a couple of you guys are clamoring for at least.
It's just not gonna happen. With that off the table understand if you want or care about that franchise you have to give her something that isn't that.

Wonder Woman has appeal just by virtue of being Wonder Woman and No one is going to take Hercules or so serious you can get away with Aries because he has gravitas outside the book.
If you don't change what she's been doing the situation will stay the same.
Appeasing her fans isn't enough and the start is to give her villains that really matter

Searcy and the cat girl but just not big enough

I'm by no means a hardcore Wonder Woman fan; but I have to disagree with everything in your post.

The villains look lame from the outside perspective

To the extent that's true, it's true of every superhero. Ever see anyone taking Shazam's villains seriously? You've got a little bald guy and a caterpillar. Bizarro is just Superman with chalk-white skin and a backwards S. The Joker is a clown. If you don't know anything about these guys, they look dumb.

And no no one's going to suddenly accept suddenly except Wonder Woman beating the hell out of Superman and Batman.

I'll agree with this; but it's not because she can't. It's because that's not her way.

As others have pointed out, Wonder Woman does have an extensive and interesting rogue's gallery of her own. You've already mentioned some, like Ares, Dr. Psycho, Circle, and Cheetah; but there are many more: the Angle Man, the Blue Snowman (Wonder Woman's counterpart to Mr. Freeze and Captain Cold), Phobos and Deimos, Devastation, Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, the Duke of Deception, Eris, Giganta, Gundra, Janus, Medusa, Paula von Gunther, Queen Clea (who could serve as a crossover villain between Wonder Woman and Aquaman), the Silver Swan, and Veronica Cale round out her main opposition.

[Alpha]

No one has a good idea of what she's supposed to be everyone just talks about what they don't want her to be. That's A big part of the problem.

Wonder Woman is an eager adventurer that loves to constantly challenge herself and others to be everything they can be. She believes in tackling every problem head on no matter how uncomfortable it is. In combat she is like a wrestler, gripping enemies into submission using her strength and martial technique to dominate and wear them down while grappling.

She travels around the world meeting new people and transforming them as she learns from them. She follows the ideals of the amazons like a honorable knight while trying to achieve her own goals. The amazons are women that had to become warriors in order to survive in the brutally hostile ancient world, until they found peace and rest in a paradise of their own, and she wants everyone to have the same peace.

And finally she is simply a wonderful and enthusiastic person to have around you. The two writers who knew how to write her best were William Marston and William Messner-Loebs, with Greg Rucka standing in third place.

If you need some recommendations for single issues to read that easily display who she is I have some suggestions for you.

[Dataweaver]

I take back what I said. I re read Doomsday Clock 10 and you were right and I was wrong. It outright states that the metaverse is one universe whose history is constantly being rewritten.

So I have to give Geoff Johns some credit and he would thusly be perfectly in line with "Everything Happened".

The idea of people remembering their past lives isn't a big conceptual jump from that.

Having said that, those two things are still worlds apart as a writing mechanic. Wonder Woman remembering her many lives makes a huge difference compared to all the retcons being invisible.

I'll agree with that. And I'll further say that Johns doesn't seem to be a big fan of “Everything Matters”, as he phrases it. He used the phrase several times in Flashpoint Beyond; and each time he did, he had someone in the story scoff at it. I'm pretty sure that New Golden Age and its successors aren't going to feature the “everyone remembers everything” notion.

What I'm wondering is whether he's going to be using the Linearverse concept that came out of Generations Shattered/Reforged, with the notion that people naturally age far more slowly. I'm not particularly fond of the notion, myself; but it would solve a number of timeline difficulties.

[Alpha]

To be fair, Hypertime is the ultimate expression of “Everything Happened”.

I have to go back to disagreeing with you. The phrase "Everything Happened" is from Death Metal and what it mesnt is that a writer can kow acknowledge all the changes to the main universe, and take the best elements of the Golden age, Silver Age, etc and write a story in the present that comtinues all the development and memories from both eras.

Hypertime isn't an expression of this

[Psy-lock]

Fam. The villain's look lame from an outside perspective saying read her book isn't going to bring people in. You're not compelling inherently from an outside perspective or more people would be reading it.

That's a ridiculous argument. Let's look at Batman's Rogues Gallery:


Now let's look at Wonder Woman's:


How exactly are WW's villains look any more lame than Batman's?

Also vandal savage being AJSA villain could beSignal boost for her.

Yeah, let's pretend that Savage is some iconic villain...

And no no one's going to suddenly accept suddenly except Wonder Woman beating the hell out of Superman and Batman.

I'm not sure why you're even mentioning Batman and Superman, I didn't say anything about them. But speaking of which, that lame Cheetah did beat Superman more than once

Appeasing her fans isn't enough and the start is to give her villains that really matter

Isn't enough for what? For you to care about her? It's fine if you dislike the character and her villains, not every character is for everyone. But why is this need to warp her into something that she's not? Just don't bother with her.

[Lonewolf36]

There were several Axis-connected villains that could give Wonder Woman a proper physical challenge:


Baron Blitzkrieg(already has)
Gundra(already has)
Ubermensch
Captain Nazi
Sumo The Samurai
Kung

So has Kung. Red Panzer might be another possibilitv.

[Frontier]

People need to start giving Diana's Rogues their due.

[Midnight_v]

I'm by no means a hardcore Wonder Woman fan; but I have to disagree with everything in your post.

Well thats great, I'm not a big fan of hers either but I'm not one of those people who only seek consenting opinions. I think of WW as a thought experiment
here, and maybe to get an understanding of what all the bitching is about when it comes to her and the trinity. I... I started with "what would make me interested in this character"
and the 1st real answer was "She doesn't have great crossovers or stories comparatively and thats PARTIALLY because her villians are mid af". They rarely bleed over, you don't get elseworlds
where Big head guy or Circe kill the daily planet and cause injustice or kingdom come. They're just of limited interest in a way that Deathstroke, and Doomsday, and harley quinn lack to get anyone
intersted outside her book IMHO. I already spoke on Ares though. He's 1 great villian in a sea of mediocrity. I picked Vandal not out of a hat but because 1. She was on the JSA him being a villian for them is
very much in tune with him making moves to keep the Amazon threat in check because it's really hard to kill her and she's going to be around for a long time. WAYYY longer than the JSA would have been expected to be. In this mindset she is the reason he's a jsa villian. Way more than any other specific mystery man. Its just one of those things. If greg rucka said it people would love it. No matter to each his own.

To the extent that's true, it's true of every superhero. Ever see anyone taking Shazam's villains seriously? You've got a little bald guy and a caterpillar. Bizarro is just Superman with chalk-white skin and a backwards S. The Joker is a clown. If you don't know anything about these guys, they look dumb.

I find this to be a disingenuous point but okay lets shoot.
So. No. well... Black Adam arguably, but then lets be honest Shazam isn't a part of the trinity who all things in the dc universe revolve around and remain eternally the biggest most advertised most KNOWN characters of all time. He has his ups and downs but Evil scientist is generic and the worm can be horrific but he's a bad example honestly because he's NOT carrying what shes' carrying.
As for the Clown... just stop. No one should every try to refer to the joker that way. Before we go any further, like 1 in 10 people are actually afraid of clowns to the point that they feel revilsion and little girls cry in hospitals about it. Moreover, there are huge numbers of people in the midwest and other part of the world in which the clown is thier official symbol and have huge fesitvals and the such. I'm not sure why it exists but it does. If the joker was real? Clowns would be banned nationwide, lol. Point being its compelling to people in a way that Circe just isn't. Zombie superman is well a zombie. I'm not saying they can't have villians played for laughs but you gotta be able to take the majority of them as world shaking threats. Imho.

I'll agree with this; but it's not because she can't. It's because that's not her way. As others have pointed out, Wonder Woman does have an extensive and interesting rogue's gallery of her own. You've already mentioned some, like Ares, Dr. Psycho, Circle, and Cheetah; but there are many more: the Angle Man, the Blue Snowman (Wonder Woman's counterpart to Mr. Freeze and Captain Cold), Phobos and Deimos, Devastation, Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, the Duke of Deception, Eris, Giganta, Gundra, Janus, Medusa, Paula von Gunther, Queen Clea (who could serve as a crossover villain between Wonder Woman and Aquaman), the Silver Swan, and Veronica Cale round out her main opposition.

I... I wasn't clamoring for her to go in on bats and supes its was another poster I was referring to but I think the idea of her being able to square up with Metropolis Milquetoast has come and gone. I also think that she shouldn't HAVE to but popular culture has her in all her incarnations as being more Xena warrior princess than "SpaceGod travelling across infinity to punch the source wall". I'm not interested in those types of comparison but it kept being brought up. They did write... someversion of her that way fighting the darkest knight or empty hand or whatever, but ultimately there's movies and cartoon etc that illustrate she's not getting called in to fight darkseid . Thats clarks gig (If anyone at all).

Wonder Woman is an eager adventurer that loves to constantly challenge herself and others to be everything they can be. She believes in tackling every problem head on no matter how uncomfortable it is. In combat she is like a wrestler, gripping enemies into submission using her strength and martial technique to dominate and wear them down while grappling. She travels around the world meeting new people and transforming them as she learns from them. She follows the ideals of the amazons like a honorable knight while trying to achieve her own goals. The amazons are women that had to become warriors in order to survive in the brutally hostile ancient world, until they found peace and rest in a paradise of their own

Thats actually pretty cool, she sounds like Doc Savage there. Ok, thats cool, outside her book, not under 3 specific authors pen, when has she ever been depicted as an explorer? Of all the things she's painted as I've never seen her in space ship.... wait can't she fly through space?

Stuff

I... I'm not sure I was really talking to you at all. My bad if I referenced you directly in anyway. But that being said. That picture you posted is a great example of MY argument.
I'd be if you grabbed someone outside average comic fan and they'd be able to name a lot more characters on bats list than dianas. Not a major thing but relevant.

Isn't enough for what? For you to care about her? It's fine if you dislike the character and her villains, not every character is for everyone. But why is this need to warp her into something that she's not? Just don't bother with her.

Simmer down, fan. Its really not that crucial. Please don't act like adding a new Villian to her is some kind of assault or drastic transformation. Because really It just isnt. I wasn't initially commenting on the vague idea being bandied around the forums that she's getting done wrong as a member of the trinity and should she be a founder of the JSA. She's immortal so why not? Oooh! The jsa have an immortal enemy? Wow what a perfect fit. Finally, Vandal Savage has gotten a better treatment on Young Justice than Diana got anywhere ever annnnd In legends of tommorow. It was a bit much in fact. I'm not a giant Vandal fan or anything it just make sense from a narrative perspective. Annnnnd I'll drop it... its no skin off my nose either way. please enjoy your comics.

[Midnight_v]

People need to start giving Diana's Rogues their due.

Respectfully, Big Dawg, Dc would have to do that first.