The “New” History of the JSA: *New Golden Age SPOILERS*

[astro@work]

In fairness I don't think there's a lot to be gained by Diana on the JSA now other than publicity.

I like the fact that Diana in the JSA preserves the Golden Age stories "as is". No new versions required to reference these adventures.
(The post-Crisis attempts to replace Diana in these stories with Miss America, Hippolyta, and GA Fury just spiraled into an ongoing mess).

GA Superman and Batman only appeared in one All-Star Comics adventured, which could easily be explained with a time travel reference.

[Ropeburn]

* In the present, Kent Nelson is still dead and Khalid is continuing as Doctor Fate.

Most of this sounds good except for Khalid. Not a fan.

[TheCasualReader]

Most of this sounds good except for Khalid. Not a fan.

So far, Khalid hasn't been written well (and he's white-washed) in the story, but the story does seem to be treating Kent like an actual character and with prominence in the story too, which is promising, but I'd still hold off on the series if you're in it primarily for Doctor Fate.

The story has the whole "Doctor Fates are getting murdered!" and there's even a page of just *dead Doctor Fates. DC doesn't exactly have the best trek record when it comes to Doctor Fate. In general, they seem to treat the character(s) pretty damn terribly.

*By the way, shout out to any Jared Steven fans because they have the worst: the only times Jared Steven gets to appear is apparently as a corpse. That's his fun cameos.

[SiegePerilous02]

Diana being in the JSA could lead to things like Fury being her and Steve's daughter again and rescuing Donna from the fire. But also has the drawback of Steve being dead by the modern age, so they have to jump through hoops to de-age him or revive him if they want to use him, and it doesn't line up with any previous continuity where he is always around in some form. And the even bigger issue is why Wonder Woman doesn't have a big impact on the world if she's been around so long, or having her be ooc by leaving for several decades before returning for the modern age of heroes. Most of her golden age villains can debut in the modern age no problem. It might be neat to have Priscilla Rich and Paula von Gunther back in their original contexts, but even that isn't necessary since a lot of their traits were folded into Barbara Minerva and Veronica Cale respectively. Diana can't also have the naive "fish out of water" elements of her early modern adventures if she's been active in our world since WWII and has a grown daughter

Just having Power Girl and Fury be time travelers like Helena is shaping up to be and arrived to join the JSA in the Bronze age equivalent in the timeline might be easier?

[Gaius]

In fairness I don't think there's a lot to be gained by Diana on the JSA now other than publicity.

There isn't

No matter now many snarl and grumble about COIE, WW largely lost nothing of value with her pre-Crisis history being wiped clean. And of the stuff worth bringing back, JSA membership ain't even on that small list.

This is just arbitrary "honoring the past" for some publicity at the expense of kneecapping a character whose moved on and been better without the JSA (and JLA but that's separate conservation).

[SiegePerilous02]

There isn't

No matter now many snarl and grumble about COIE, WW largely lost nothing of value with her pre-Crisis history being wiped clean. And of the stuff worth bringing back, JSA membership ain't even on that small list.

I think losing her history with JLA was bad since it played havoc with Donna's timeline. And most of the worst stuff to happen to her while on that team happened in the modern age, not Silver/Bronze. There wasn't any gain to that, and at least one huge headache.

Just put Perez's run earlier in the timeline and we wouldn't have any problems. But for the GA stuff, there is no need for it at all besides trying to figure out what the hell to do with Fury. Which they solved with Helena Kosmatos I guess, though that's certainly a downgrade marketability wise from being the daughter of WW.

[Will Evans]

Diana being in the JSA could lead to things like Fury being her and Steve's daughter again and rescuing Donna from the fire. But also has the drawback of Steve being dead by the modern age, so they have to jump through hoops to de-age him or revive him if they want to use him, and it doesn't line up with any previous continuity where he is always around in some form. And the even bigger issue is why Wonder Woman doesn't have a big impact on the world if she's been around so long, or having her be ooc by leaving for several decades before returning for the modern age of heroes. Most of her golden age villains can debut in the modern age no problem. It might be neat to have Priscilla Rich and Paula von Gunther back in their original contexts, but even that isn't necessary since a lot of their traits were folded into Barbara Minerva and Veronica Cale respectively. Diana can't also have the naive "fish out of water" elements of her early modern adventures if she's been active in our world since WWII and has a grown daughter

Just having Power Girl and Fury be time travelers like Helena is shaping up to be and arrived to join the JSA in the Bronze age equivalent in the timeline might be easier?

Steve is not from the 1940s now, he’s in the modern era. So you still can’t have him as the father of Fury.

Edit: oops. I replied to your post when I didn’t mean too.

[astro@work]

There isn't

No matter now many snarl and grumble about COIE, WW largely lost nothing of value with her pre-Crisis history being wiped clean. And of the stuff worth bringing back, JSA membership ain't even on that small list.

This is just arbitrary "honoring the past" for some publicity at the expense of kneecapping a character whose moved on and been better without the JSA (and JLA but that's separate conservation).

Could not disagree more.

Diana lost her status as a founding member of the JLA.
Diana lost her connection to Donna Troy, one of her biggest supporting players.
Diana became a newbie hero in a modern age where heroes had long since been established.
Those things are huge.

[Factor]

Funny that now future Helena Wayne Huntress is a legacy to present day Helena Bertinelli Huntress.

Lol I hadn’t realised that. Jeez
Helena Bertinelli will be like “why the f did you steal my look?”.

[Badou]

What is confusing to me is the picking and choosing of specific things to want to keep in the Golden Age, or other things as part of comics natural history, while ignoring other things. Like Johns wants Wonder Woman and Aquaman to be GA characters. Even creating separate characters like a GA Auqaman and still having a modern Aquaman. That feels a lot like what happened with Diana and Hippolyta with trying to have Wonder Woman be both a modern and GA hero. Then wanting to have a Power Girl's origin be given a hard date of 1976 to match her natural history and how that puts her in conflict with a Superman's modern debut.

It brings up things like Superman, Batman, and Robin. Three other iconic identities from DC. Do you try and figure out some way to include them with the Golden Age again if you are having Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and Green Lantern get connected to the Golden Age? Dick Grayson was the first ever sidekick in DC. That is a big accomplishment. Should that get restored somehow? If not then who is actually the first ever sidekick now? Then a Superman has much deeper connections to the JSA over his history so should that get restored, but how? Time travel? Created a separate Earth-2? But then we are running into the exact same things it feels like Johns is trying to navigate around. So I don't really know what the solution is.

[Psy-lock]

Could not disagree more.

Diana lost her status as a founding member of the JLA.
Diana lost her connection to Donna Troy, one of her biggest supporting players.
Diana became a newbie hero in a modern age where heroes had long since been established.
Those things are huge.

Her being a founding member of the JLA is huge if you consider it an important part of the character. Some of us don't.
Donna was never a big supporting player to the pre-Crisis WW. She only had a couple of appearances in her book.
Her being a newbie hero isn't all that different from her status in the Golden Age where she debuted after most of the major heroes.

[Guy_McNichts]

So Wonder Woman's history, supporting cast, backstory and character is going to be completely up-heaved and made a mess (again) so she can be worked into the history of a bunch of unrelated characters and a team which she gains absolutely nothing being a part of?

It's **** like this that makes me hate shared universes. Because this really is putting the cart before the horse, and the same damn thing happens with Justice League--another affiliation that has never been good for Wonder Woman, BTW.

And it all comes back to DC's unhealthy fixation on hierarchy and legacy. Face it guys, most of these characters were never meant to exist together. I don't give a **** who came first, or who's a founding member of whichever team, or who is who's kid, and I definitely don't understand the obsession with anchoring certain characters to goddamn World War II. It just makes the universe feel small, confined, and inbred.

And...to top it off...of all writers to dictate Diana's history, GEOFF JOHNS? One of the worst Wonder Woman writers in the character's history? As if the man hasn't done enough damage to her?
He has no business dictating anything related to Wonder Woman, and yet here we are, pulling the rug out from under her (again) in order to wank his god-awful nostalgia fetish.

Alan Moore was right. Johns really is a raccoon rummaging through the garbage of his betters.

[Factor]

What is confusing to me is the picking and choosing of specific things to want to keep in the Golden Age, or other things as part of comics natural history, while ignoring other things. Like Johns wants Wonder Woman and Aquaman to be GA characters. Even creating separate characters like a GA Auqaman and still having a modern Aquaman. That feels a lot like what happened with Diana and Hippolyta with trying to have Wonder Woman be both a modern and GA hero. Then wanting to have a Power Girl's origin be given a hard date of 1976 to match her natural history and how that puts her in conflict with a Superman's modern debut.

It brings up things like Superman, Batman, and Robin. Three other iconic identities from DC. Do you try and figure out some way to include them with the Golden Age again if you are having Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and Green Lantern get connected to the Golden Age? Dick Grayson was the first ever sidekick in DC. That is a big accomplishment. Should that get restored somehow? If not then who is actually the first ever sidekick now? Then a Superman has much deeper connections to the JSA over his history so should that get restored, but how? Time travel? Created a separate Earth-2? But then we are running into the exact same things it feels like Johns is trying to navigate around. So I don't really know what the solution is.

Agreed. It's weird because just a few months ago Johns made sure to establish Golden Age Green Arrow as the current one who got stranded in the past alongside Roy.
Yet now Aquaman is separated in two distinct characters. There's no criteria.

[thwhtGuardian]

The one shot itself was pretty decent if you just ignored the time line and stopped trying to figure out what it meant for continuity.

[Mantis-Ray]

So Wonder Woman's history, supporting cast, backstory and character is going to be completely up-heaved and made a mess (again) so she can be worked into the history of a bunch of unrelated characters and a team which she gains absolutely nothing being a part of?

It's **** like this that makes me hate shared universes. Because this really is putting the cart before the horse, and the same damn thing happens with Justice League--another affiliation that has never been good for Wonder Woman, BTW.

And it all comes back to DC's unhealthy fixation on hierarchy and legacy. Face it guys, most of these characters were never meant to exist together. I don't give a **** who came first, or who's a founding member of whichever team, or who is who's kid, and I definitely don't understand the obsession with anchoring certain characters to goddamn World War II. It just makes the universe feel small, confined, and inbred.

And...to top it off...of all writers to dictate Diana's history, GEOFF JOHNS? One of the worst Wonder Woman writers in the character's history? As if the man hasn't done enough damage to her?
He has no business dictating anything related to Wonder Woman, and yet here we are, pulling the rug out from under her (again) in order to wank his god-awful nostalgia fetish.

Alan Moore was right. Johns really is a raccoon rummaging through the garbage of his betters.

Well credit to Johns at least he's not making disturbing pornography with existing characters like Moore has done.