Immortal X-Men #8 Review/Spoilers

[king81992]

I'll never understand this obsession with 'technology is our real enemy' plot point. For Chists' sake our 'heroes' are relying on cloning, space travel and data copies of people. So is technology only bad when humans use it?

Unless they mean AI, in which case do they only mean the Phalanx and Nimrod? Because Nightcrawler was able to solo Nimrod in AXE, and despite all the grandiose talk about the Phalanx its been a problem they've been able to handle before. I just don't understand how its such an existential threat that it justifies all of this work to stop it. Yeah, Sentinals are dangerous, but they're just dumb tools with terrible programing that just get pointed at mutants.

The idea seems to be that humans merging with technology to become cyborgs is bad and that AI will eventually kill everyone who isn't a robot.

[gonnagiveittoya]

I'll never understand this obsession with 'technology is our real enemy' plot point. For Chists' sake our 'heroes' are relying on cloning, space travel and data copies of people. So is technology only bad when humans use it?

Unless they mean AI, in which case do they only mean the Phalanx and Nimrod? Because Nightcrawler was able to solo Nimrod in AXE, and despite all the grandiose talk about the Phalanx its been a problem they've been able to handle before. I just don't understand how its such an existential threat that it justifies all of this work to stop it. Yeah, Sentinals are dangerous, but they're just dumb tools with terrible programing that just get pointed at mutants.

The craziest thing is that the conclusion to the Phalanx thing will likely be "shoot the robots with energy beams"

[Frobisher]

I love it. Gilles is taking some pretty out there theories (*the* Irene Adler? Red diamond Sinister) and running with them.

[Vordan]

I'll never understand this obsession with 'technology is our real enemy' plot point. For Chists' sake our 'heroes' are relying on cloning, space travel and data copies of people. So is technology only bad when humans use it?

Unless they mean AI, in which case do they only mean the Phalanx and Nimrod? Because Nightcrawler was able to solo Nimrod in AXE, and despite all the grandiose talk about the Phalanx its been a problem they've been able to handle before. I just don't understand how its such an existential threat that it justifies all of this work to stop it. Yeah, Sentinals are dangerous, but they're just dumb tools with terrible programing that just get pointed at mutants.

Hickman agrees with you. Sentinels and Nimrods are just the start. The true enemy are posthumans, humans who merge with machines. They’re a threat because they’re an artificial evolution as opposed to mutants “natural” evolution.

[king of hybrids]

I'll never understand this obsession with 'technology is our real enemy' plot point. For Chists' sake our 'heroes' are relying on cloning, space travel and data copies of people. So is technology only bad when humans use it?

Unless they mean AI, in which case do they only mean the Phalanx and Nimrod? Because Nightcrawler was able to solo Nimrod in AXE, and despite all the grandiose talk about the Phalanx its been a problem they've been able to handle before. I just don't understand how its such an existential threat that it justifies all of this work to stop it. Yeah, Sentinals are dangerous, but they're just dumb tools with terrible programing that just get pointed at mutants.

It’s mostly as noted it’s the AI & transhumance being the real enemy, plus the Dune influences Hickman brought to the run

But there’s also the seemingly entirely accidental side on the part of the writers continually retconning in ‘glorious ancient mutant civilisations’ further and further back in time. Considering the E-gene is supposed to sterilise humans once mutants reach a certain percentage the population, then even the most rudimentary human technological advancements (tools, fire, agriculture, the most basic foundations of ancient medicine) allowed baseline humans to outbreed and outcompete ancient mutants instead of dying out millennia ago (as Okaara was apparently expecting)

[Steroid]

This was a interesting issue I guess but I'm so sick of sinister. I gave this book 8 issues but for me it's time to step away from Immortal as I seriously don't want to see any version of Sinister again anytime soon.

[BobbysWorld]

Damn, I was nowhere near thinking Mother Righteous might be the fourth Sinister, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Aside from the name call-out (Right is in her name, while Sinister means left, as he pointed out last Legion of X issue)....some other thoughts along these lines:

1) If the Sinister clones were all made to find solutions to the Phalanx threat, the core presence of one of them in the book that seems to be following up on Hickman's Phalanx stuff makes a lot of sense. Plus, Mother Righteous seems entirely fixated on Legion's importance, which could be she thinks he is the solution to fighting the Phalanx, and is trying to train him up for that.

2) Her accent originally made me think she might be one of Legion's own alters, trying to gain autonomy from him, but given Essex's own origins, her accent could fit as hailing from similar regions to Essex/the other Sinisters, but deliberately distanced from them as having a Cockney accent is something Essex in all his other incarnations would sneer at.....whereas she might assume it as an affectation that plays into how deliberately distinct she is from the rest in all other ways. Ie the only woman of the set, focused on science's intersection with magic/superstition whereas all of the rest are JUST science-focused, red skin differentiating from the others' looks, etc.

3) Mother Righteous' whole deal is wheeling and dealing, making trades, a power broker who offers people what they want most in exchange for favors, etc.....and Faustian bargains are one of Sinister's hallmarks and always have been. How many times since his debut, even long before this era, has he appeared offering his help to his enemies for a price, or forcing them to stomach having to go to him for his expertise despite how they feel about him?

4) If Sins of Sinister is about the mutant/Krakoan Sinister using the Moira clones to get the future he wants, and the other Sinisters all warring with him and amongst himself, it makes sense that he would be present in all three of the books focused on the event....and one of the Sinisters to appear or somehow oppose him in each of those three titles. Doctor Stasis is the logical conclusion to show up in the Earth-based Immortal/Immoral X-Men book, Orbis Stellaris the obvious candidate for the X-Men Red/Storm and the Brotherhood book, which leaves Mother Righteous for the Legion of X/Nightcrawlers book.

5) The entire concept of chimeras in this era is intrinsically tied to Sinister, and its definitely noteworthy that the mutant god Mother Righteous was instrumental in helping Ora Serrata create was a hodge-podge of existing trickster gods and specifically called Tumult the Trickster CHIMERA.

6) Its noteworthy that if the Sinisters are all in opposition to each other, and we know Stasis hates Krakoan Sinister for sure.....its definitely worth a mention that Mother Righteous has been shown undermining/opposing Sinister in Immortal X-Men all along. After all, the very first issue of Immortal X-Men, which revealed Sinister's Moira clones and his method of scientific method-ing his way to the most opportunistic futures for himself.....seemed to heavily indicate that the incident with Selene was the first time his Moira clone-based future knowledge failed him, and things started to play out in ways he didn't see coming and seemed to strongly believe shouldn't be happening the way they were. And we know from the summoning Shaw did a couple issues ago....Mother Righteous was instrumental in Selene's actions in all of that, and now potentially she's made a deal with Shaw, one of Sinister's fellow Council members and another viable 'pawn' for her to use to throw off Sinister's plans in some way.

7) Her right-hand man in Legion of X is Vox Ignis, the hybrid she made by bonding Sean Cassidy with a Ghost Rider-esque spirit that has notably not been called a Spirit of Vengeance, but rather the Spirit of VARIANCE. Variance - in terms of its scientific meanings and applications - takes on a whole different look when you consider it as an instrument of a scientist fixated on fusing science and magic or using scientific paradigms to master superstition and its various sources.

Literally the only thing I don't like about this theory is I hate Sinister and have been hoping for him to be completely gone from the books post Sins of Sinister, at least for a good long while, but I've liked Mother Righteous since her debut and found her one of the most interesting aspects of Legion of X, so I mostly just don't WANT her to be a Sinister clone purely because then I'd either have to hope for a Sinister character to remain front and central to a book, or else cross fingers for her to be slated for an imminent departure from the books too, booooo. Possibly I might just be being petty here, lol.

If she is the fourth Sinister, the heart suit, the thing I'm most curious about though is what she's been doing for the past several decades prior to making her debut in Legion of X. We know what Krakoan Sinister, Stasis and even Orbis Stellaris have been up to and largely where....and presumably her bargains and trades aren't something new even if we only started seeing them happen post-Krakoa....but where has she been all this time in specific, what other bargains might she have made - and with what beings - that we haven't seen?

[davetvs]

I understand being annoyed that Gillen has a tendency to over-insert Sinister everywhere based on his obvious fondness for the character, but this book is so good I don't even care.

[Agatha's Ghost]

It’s mostly as noted it’s the AI & transhumance being the real enemy, plus the Dune influences Hickman brought to the run

But there’s also the seemingly entirely accidental side on the part of the writers continually retconning in ‘glorious ancient mutant civilisations’ further and further back in time. Considering the E-gene is supposed to sterilise humans once mutants reach a certain percentage the population, then even the most rudimentary human technological advancements (tools, fire, agriculture, the most basic foundations of ancient medicine) allowed baseline humans to outbreed and outcompete ancient mutants instead of dying out millennia ago (as Okaara was apparently expecting)

But the humans lived. It seems that Beast’s E-gene theory is BOGUS.

[BobbysWorld]

Yeah, the whole Great Replacement idea/theme and all the stuff with the E-gene have long been one of the most problematic aspects of the entire mutant concept in X-books so I don't see it as a bad thing at all to move further and further away from that being considered remotely viable. Hell, part of why I LIKE the many previous mutant civilizations being introduced into the books this era is because they further cement the idea that mutants aren't actually the next step in evolution, but simply a different evolutionary path, and mutants have been around and co-existing with humanity all along, just to different degrees. I mean, contrary to popular belief, Cro-Magnons did not actually replace Neanderthals the way is commonly held....the existence of the two overlapped by almost thirty thousand years.

[Steroid]

I understand being annoyed that Gillen has a tendency to over-insert Sinister everywhere based on his obvious fondness for the character, but this book is so good I don't even care.

I won't deny that it's a good book but the Sinister show is becoming tiresome. The fact that the krakoans continue allowing him to not only walk among them but allow him to be in a seat of power within their government is just mind boggling.

[anyajenkins]

So this explains the suits. But what is that fifth cloning chamber in the background that is unbroken?

Well, not really. Why did sinister to mark the cylinders with playing cards? What do those have to do with anything, lol?

[Kingdom X]

Well, not really. Why did sinister to mark the cylinders with playing cards? What do those have to do with anything, lol?

There’s a Sinister for each suite. It was revealed months ago that there’s a club (?) Sinister working for Orchis. Obviously Diamond is the one we’ve known forever. The other two are likely Orbis and Mother Righteous (which Ewing and Spurrier has been building up in their titles). Kinda surprised Duggan isn’t connecting to SoS because the whole suites reveal came from his book.

I think this issue confirmed for me that the overarching story in Immortal will seemingly always tie back to Sinister, so I can measure my expectations moving forward. I am VERY curious to see if this book goes past 12 issues and has a significant transformation or if it ends after SoS and the 12th issue before FoX.

[gonnagiveittoya]

I won't deny that it's a good book but the Sinister show is becoming tiresome. The fact that the krakoans continue allowing him to not only walk among them but allow him to be in a seat of power within their government is just mind boggling.

He needs a good drawing and quartering post Sins of Sinister

[BobbysWorld]

There’s a Sinister for each suite. It was revealed months ago that there’s a club (?) Sinister working for Orchis. Obviously Diamond is the one we’ve known forever. The other two are likely Orbis and Mother Righteous (which Ewing and Spurrier has been building up in their titles). Kinda surprised Duggan isn’t connecting to SoS because the whole suites reveal came from his book.

I think they were more wondering why the suits were ever necessary at all from an in-universe perspective. As in, why would Milbury/Essex ever bother marking his four intended clones with those in the first place, what do playing cards have to do with anything.

To be fair, it is a decent question - we're never really given an explanation for what significance the card suites hold for Essex himself, but presumably they mean something to him and thus he felt they were a convenient taxonomy for his various selves. I mean, dude was always eccentric as fuck, so its not that its at all OOC for him to decide to do that fairly arbitrarily. But an explanation for that specific choice of symbology would be nice to have at some point.