Disney Shocker! Bob Iger Back As CEO, Bob Chapek Out

[Scott Taylor]

Lets be real, though, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with including race as a criteria for a particular character. Even if that character wasn't of that race in the source material. Its ok to write stories that intentionally include a cast that looks like America, like the world.

[80sbaby]

Pretty much.

Now do I feel that people like Derek Metaltron are actually horrible racist who hate POC/LGBTQ and women? Not at all.

However I do believe he's a victim of the systemic racism/sexism/homophobia that's pervasive in society. It forms and unconscious bias and what I like to call "casual racism." As in, there's no other reason to cast a black person as a character that was originally white other than for "diversity points." It CANNOT POSSIBLY be because they actually did a colorblind casting and that person happened to be the best they saw. That's simply not something that could ever happen in his (and other's) mind. That's why it's "obvious" that when it happens then it is only for reasons not based on talent. Which is very insulting to these actors who are cast in these roles.

[80sbaby]

Lets be real, though, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with including race as a criteria for a particular character. Even if that character wasn't of that race in the source material. Its ok to write stories that intentionally include a cast that looks like America, like the world.

This is also true. We just shouldn't pretend talent isn't also a big factor. It's not like they just hire the first POC they see, after all.

[HollowSage]

There are a lot of movies that may have hit #1 for a weekend that weren't good. Sometimes I go to a movie because I think it may be good, Wing Commander I am looking at you, but then leave and feel like you wasted 2 hours of your life.
I mean, Big Momma House 2 was Number 1 and that was Terrible!

None of that applies to the MCU. It’s longevity and consistent track record is unmatched. It’s not a fluke. People watch the movies and keep coming back. People must be enjoying them and think they are good or they would watch something else.

[HollowSage]

It’s fair to say that we can easily accuse Disney at times (not to mention other studios) of fan baiting where they sometimes cast non white male actors in roles to mask bad writing and characterisation so they can deploy the Ist Cards to any constructive criticism and shut down rational conversation. It’s been a strategy for years now since Fan4stick and Ghostbusters 2016 and I don’t see it changing anytime soon. But when done it’s insulting to the fans, to genuine critics that feel intimidated not to give glowing reviews or risk their jobs (look at the various reviews of Rings of Power for evidence of that) and of course the actors and actresses that have to put up with unneeded hate within a role they inwardly know was likely made to tick a box.

If Iger can move away from that philosophy and ensure good writing and story returns to Disney alongside more genuine and honest diversity, he’ll win all audiences back, not just the perceived casual group that won’t watch anyway with the core fan bases to encourage them to tag along.

Wow. Do people actually believe this?

Executive 1. “This script is terrible. If we make this the reviews will be awful. We have to scrap it and start over.”

Executive 2. “Nah, we can just hire a PoC in the lead role and everything will be ok. They will take all the heat.”

Executive 1. “Yeah, that sounds better than just writing a good script.”

People make some huge assumptions with no evidence to back it up.

[ChrisIII]

There are a lot of movies that may have hit #1 for a weekend that weren't good. Sometimes I go to a movie because I think it may be good, Wing Commander I am looking at you, but then leave and feel like you wasted 2 hours of your life.
I mean, Big Momma House 2 was Number 1 and that was Terrible!

Wing Commander was one of the movies that the second "Phantom Menace" trailer was attached to. It might seem weird in retrospect but the TPM trailer were pretty big at the time (This was back before youtube and faster internet connections made trailers pretty much instant/good quality). The first trailer also boosted the box office of Meet Joe Black and The Waterboy, and it was widely reported that many people bought tickets just to see the trailer and then leave.

Funny thing is TPM itself came with a three-in-one FOX trailer for three films: General's Daughter, Titan A.E and The Beach, all of which flopped I think.

[Username taken]

Wing Commander was one of the movies that the second "Phantom Menace" trailer was attached to. It might seem weird in retrospect but the TPM trailer were pretty big at the time (This was back before youtube and faster internet connections made trailers pretty much instant/good quality). The first trailer also boosted the box office of Meet Joe Black and The Waterboy, and it was widely reported that many people bought tickets just to see the trailer and then leave.

Funny thing is TPM itself came with a three-in-one FOX trailer for three films: General's Daughter, Titan A.E and The Beach, all of which flopped I think.

That was the time people went to watch movies just to get trailers.

[Username taken]

Lets be real, though, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with including race as a criteria for a particular character. Even if that character wasn't of that race in the source material. Its ok to write stories that intentionally include a cast that looks like America, like the world.

Agreed.

It's wild that people still talk about "forced diversity" (particularly in the US) when over 40% of the population is a minority of some sort.

Even anime from a broadly monoracial country like Japan has recently started including darker-skinned people in them. I mean, even they recognize that more developed nations have become somewhat more diverse.

[Kirby101]

I also want to talk about this bs that they are ignoring or disenfranchising a "plurality' of the population. First off, White women are the biggest demographic, not white men. Second is the thought that presenting women or POC as heroes somehow offends white men is asinine. Sure, there are idiots who find this a problem, but I would hazard to guess the majority of white men who see these films have no problem with it. So if it pisses off a few bigots, who gives a flying F.

[Jokerz79]

Wow. Do people actually believe this?

Executive 1. “This script is terrible. If we make this the reviews will be awful. We have to scrap it and start over.”

Executive 2. “Nah, we can just hire a PoC in the lead role and everything will be ok. They will take all the heat.”

Executive 1. “Yeah, that sounds better than just writing a good script.”

People make some huge assumptions with no evidence to back it up.

While I don't believe diversity is added for just the sake of a "shield" against criticism. I also know it has been done once criticism was lopped against certain projects.

Case in point Ghostbusters 2016 I believe they wanted to do a Ghostbusters movie with 4 females seeing as fun and modern take on the orginal film.

But once that 1st trailer dropped I saw in real time Sony delete most comments that was constructive criticism like one I myself posted at the time. Yet they kept up the misogynist comments. They didn't create the misogyny it was already there but they used it to frame all criticism as misogynistic.

I believe Diversity is good and think most complaints come from fragile people, but I also believe corporations have no issue using POCs as shields when they feel its needed.

[skyvolt2000]

If Iger can move away from that philosophy and ensure good writing and story returns to Disney alongside more genuine and honest diversity, he’ll win all audiences back, not just the perceived casual group that won’t watch anyway with the core fan bases to encourage them to tag along.

Please explain that.

Seriously explain that.

Is this the diversity of where you have POC and they stay in the background?
Get killed off the fastest?
Play thugs and jocks? Along with other stereotypes?

It’s been a strategy for years now since Fan4stick and Ghostbusters 2016 and I don’t see it changing anytime soon. But when done it’s insulting to the fans

Why would a BLACK Johnny Storm be insulting to me??? When we have had 3 other movies and 3 tv shows and the comic feature a white one?

Why would a Ghostbuster team that did NOT include the OGs insult me? When a tv show called Extreme Ghostbusters did not include them and had a black male lead, a handicap guy, a goth girl and Hispanic guy? Oh and that SAME show originally was suppose to be an 1 guy (Eduardo) and the rest were girls. And it produced toys and 3 video games.

Lets talk New Mutants movie-MANY fans were insulted that Sunspot was not a dark skinned actor. Yet got told by some of the SAME folks who threw fits about Ghostbusters and FF to get over it.

of course the actors and actresses that have to put up with unneeded hate within a role they inwardly know was likely made to tick a box.

Caleb McLaughlin did NOT take the role of Lucas on Stranger Things to get get verbally abused at cons like he has.
Leslie Jones did NOT engage with toxic fanboys over Ghostbusters that was Melissa McCarty. Yet she got ALL the brunt of the hate.

Those folks did not take those roles to get attacked.

[skyvolt2000]

Wing Commander was one of the movies that the second "Phantom Menace" trailer was attached to. It might seem weird in retrospect but the TPM trailer were pretty big at the time (This was back before youtube and faster internet connections made trailers pretty much instant/good quality). The first trailer also boosted the box office of Meet Joe Black and The Waterboy, and it was widely reported that many people bought tickets just to see the trailer and then leave.

Funny thing is TPM itself came with a three-in-one FOX trailer for three films: General's Daughter, Titan A.E and The Beach, all of which flopped I think.

The Beach made 150 off a $50 mill budget.
General's Daughter depending on who you talk to about the budget-it broke even or didn't.
Big Momma House 2 was a hit.

We just shouldn't pretend talent isn't also a big factor. It's not like they just hire the first POC they see, after all.

In an effort to be fair-that does happen. It happened with The Journey of Allen Strange, Famous Jett Jackson and What I Like About You (WB).

It mainly happened because Arjay Smith, Lee Thompson Young and Wesley Jonathan were the ONLY POC to try out for those roles. In Wesley's case he went to the casting despite it saying they wanted a white male to play Gary on What I Like About You.

So they were the best for those roles and just happened to be the only POC to audition,



And I guess a kudos to Disney is needed here.

I saw Strange World (went to a 10 AM showing)

The LGBTQA+ content that will get this movie banned in certain countries.

Disney could have Easily DUBBED the dialogue and pull a Power Rangers/Sailor Moon (a character is male in one country but female in another). Nobody would have been the wiser.
Because that is all it really was.

I guess kudos to Disney for not backing down.

[godisawesome]

I also want to talk about this bs that they are ignoring or disenfranchising a "plurality' of the population. First off, White women are the biggest demographic, not white men. Second is the thought that presenting women or POC as heroes somehow offends white men is asinine. Sure, there are idiots who find this a problem, but I would hazard to guess the majority of white men who see these films have no problem with it. So if it pisses off a few bigots, who gives a flying F.

I’d add that I personally know a full blown MAGA dude - and he still watches Black Panther, Star Trek: Discovery, Captain Marvel, etc.

The “backlash against wokeness” is entirely shallow, marketing-style performative politics. It’s even likely the guys who complain about “wokeness” on these boards read or watch “woke” material, and just try to excuse it through some technicality of called on it - just like some who want to be progressive can watch regressive material and try to excuse it as well.

While I don't believe diversity is added for just the sake of a "shield" against criticism. I also know it has been done once criticism was lopped against certain projects.

Case in point Ghostbusters 2016 I believe they wanted to do a Ghostbusters movie with 4 females seeing as fun and modern take on the orginal film.

But once that 1st trailer dropped I saw in real time Sony delete most comments that was constructive criticism like one I myself posted at the time. Yet they kept up the misogynist comments. They didn't create the misogyny it was already there but they used it to frame all criticism as misogynistic.

I believe Diversity is good and think most complaints come from fragile people, but I also believe corporations have no issue using POCs as shields when they feel its needed.

I think a key point here is that the marketing sphere is what would try to hide behind POCs, while the creative sphere does it do that because everyone starts off thinking their story will work just as is. And you can expect creative people to switch into marketing mode after creative mode as well - see: Rian Johnson trying to paint all TLJ critics as racists and sexists when his film was accidentally racist and sexist, and now doing his best to not comment on John Boyega calling him out on that while likely trying harder to be progressive in Knives Out and such.

[Immortal Weapon]

I'm annoyed at how the focus on streaming is apparently a bad thing. Like it shouldn't have any content on of it's own to try to drive people who using it. I loved the focus on and I hope it doesn't get pulled back for antiquated formats.

[Derek Metaltron]

Pretty much.

Now do I feel that people like Derek Metaltron are actually horrible racist who hate POC/LGBTQ and women? Not at all.

However I do believe he's a victim of the systemic racism/sexism/homophobia that's pervasive in society. It forms and unconscious bias and what I like to call "casual racism." As in, there's no other reason to cast a black person as a character that was originally white other than for "diversity points." It CANNOT POSSIBLY be because they actually did a colorblind casting and that person happened to be the best they saw. That's simply not something that could ever happen in his (and other's) mind. That's why it's "obvious" that when it happens then it is only for reasons not based on talent. Which is very insulting to these actors who are cast in these roles.

I am certain that Hollywood has and does use some non white actors to mask and cover up bad writing. It is nothing against the actor in general, in fact most of the time I feel pity for them when it's more evident. But I was as ticked as many of the shitty job Star Wars did with Finn and the decision to embrace Reylo by a rabid fan-girl minority, and I am after the initial trailer more positive about the Little Mermaid live action film than I was previously.

Everything is (or certainly should be) a case by case basis in these matters. People can and should be validly able to disagree with casting a black actress as Anne Boleyn in a project attempting to be wholly historically accurate, or attempting to cast Ciri in The Witcher with a BAME actress (when the character's Eastern European based heritage is essential to the character. On the other hand making Namor Mexican or the rumors of Denzel Washington as a black Magneto both didn't bother me and even excites me in the latter case (since they're apparently changing his origins to be based around Civil Rights instead of the Holocaust and that's a great setup).

I respect that it's easier to be angry about such matters from both sides of a perceived political divide (and that in turns annoys me that entertainment is used by both extremes in such a way) than take a moment to be more moderate and understanding. So whilst what you're saying can and does happen (and I'll raise my hand to say I've been there at times without thinking) there's an equal amount of people part of the also systemic need to assume all 'bias' against a project MUST be an Ist notion. Ultimately people SHOULD be able to say a spade is a spade and not feel like they'll get 'Ist' at if that's not genuinely their intention.

Hollywood and entertainment, including Disney at times, has increased the perceived amount of Ist 'fans' who complain about a project when in reality it's a tiny percentage of actual bigots and Jerks who death threatened Marie Tran and the like, because that's easier to defend against then just saying 'Maybe Last Jedi wasn't that great.' (And I'm someone who liked elements of that movie.)