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  1. #1
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    Default JSA # 1 preview reveals Batman's current age and timeline

    https://aiptcomics.com/2022/11/23/dc...-of-america-1/


    Mild SPOILERS

    So the preview for the new Justice Society of America series is out. And one of the first things it establishes, which I didn't expect, is a near-exact timeline for Batman in current continuity, including (possibly) his age.

    Basically, according to the timeline Johns establishes here, the Wayne murders happened 31 years ago. And the events of Year One (well, specifically Selina becoming Catwoman) occurred 13 years ago.

    Given the 18 year gap between these two events (which is also as per Year One), and given Bruce's age in that story (25-26), it would mean that Batman is currently supposed to be 39.

    Which...is a bit younger than you'd expect considering Damian. In fact, it messes up Damian's timeline again, since he's supposed to be 14! So either he's been retconned to be conceived before Bruce became Batman (unlikely) or, much like in the New 52, there's some rapid ageing in play.

    Granted, a 13 year timeline allows them to obstinantly keep Bruce under 40, as well as Dick in his 20's, Tim as a teenager etc.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Basically, according to the timeline Johns establishes here, the Wayne murders happened 31 years ago. And the events of Year One (well, specifically Selina becoming Catwoman) occurred 13 years ago.

    Given the 18 year gap between these two events (which is also as per Year One), and given Bruce's age in that story (25-26), it would mean that Batman is currently supposed to be 39.

    Thoughts?
    1939 (Detective Comics #27)...and well, that's my only thought, Mr Bat39.
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  3. #3
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Told people Dick is in his mid 20s! Dc still want's Bruce some what young. Plus Tim's orgin doesn't work with Dick in his early 30s.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 11-23-2022 at 01:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    I realize fans love concrete numbers like this, but these same fans will hate them three years from now.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  5. #5
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Don't forget, this a "future" that is being monkeyed with by Per Degaton.

    May not mean anything when all is said and done.

  6. #6
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Don't forget, this a "future" that is being monkeyed with by Per Degaton.

    May not mean anything when all is said and done.
    And this is why I'm not overly concerned with the now version. With Stargirl's materializing characters and Degaton's time hijinks, what we end up with may be different than what we're looking at now. I'm expecting DC to gauge what reaction will be and adjust their outcomes accordingly.
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  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    People usually headcanon Bruce into his late 30's/early 40's.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    https://aiptcomics.com/2022/11/23/dc...-of-america-1/


    Mild SPOILERS

    So the preview for the new Justice Society of America series is out. And one of the first things it establishes, which I didn't expect, is a near-exact timeline for Batman in current continuity, including (possibly) his age.

    Basically, according to the timeline Johns establishes here, the Wayne murders happened 31 years ago. And the events of Year One (well, specifically Selina becoming Catwoman) occurred 13 years ago.

    Given the 18 year gap between these two events (which is also as per Year One), and given Bruce's age in that story (25-26), it would mean that Batman is currently supposed to be 39.

    Which...is a bit younger than you'd expect considering Damian. In fact, it messes up Damian's timeline again, since he's supposed to be 14! So either he's been retconned to be conceived before Bruce became Batman (unlikely) or, much like in the New 52, there's some rapid ageing in play.

    Granted, a 13 year timeline allows them to obstinantly keep Bruce under 40, as well as Dick in his 20's, Tim as a teenager etc.

    Thoughts?
    Meh. Whatever. That said, I was surprised "The Knight" didn't give us a new conception scene for Damian. It came really close...right up to Bruce saying something stupid and Talia slapping him then shoving him out of her bed and room.

  9. #9
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Cyclist View Post
    Meh. Whatever. That said, I was surprised "The Knight" didn't give us a new conception scene for Damian. It came really close...right up to Bruce saying something stupid and Talia slapping him then shoving him out of her bed and room.
    The whole Al Ghul segment of that comic felt so forced.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    I guess Dick and Jason are really close in age then if Dick is still mid 20s, which I've never been a fan of. Unless Dick's time as Robin was very short and he became Robin when he was already into his teens rather than becoming Robin 8-12 years old.

  11. #11
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Jason's been depicted as older than he should be ever since he became Red Hood. He should be Tim's age, considering there's only five years in the real world between their debuts as Robin, which is probably just a year in universe.

    Tim's the opposite. Young Justice's timeline is incompatible with Jon Kent's (Conner is supposed to have debuted before Jon was born, as Jon was born after Death of Superman), so they need aging up.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    The only way I can see to make the modern timeline make sense is:

    1. Forced aging for Damian. Forget the new “13 years since Batman's debut” revelation: Son of the Demon was published in 1987 when Jason Todd was already Robin; so you'd need over ten years to pass between that point and Damian's introduction in Morrison's run; and even if you give Tim a generous six years between his debut and Damian's arrival (which we probably can't do; see below), that would still mean that four years would have had to have passed in the comics published between 1987 and 1989. I just don't see that happening. You might buy a little more time by backdating Son of the Demon a bit; but as it featured Nightwing, you can only push it back so far.

    2. Keep Tim de-aged, and increase the age both Dick and Tim were when Dick became Robin. If it has been 13 years since Batman's debut, Dick Grayson's debut as Robin cannot have been more than 12 years ago, probably more like 11 years. We need to fit Dick's, Jason's, Tim's, and now Damian's times as Robin into those 11 years. Even if we keep Jason's and Damian's times as Robin short (no more than a year each), that still leaves his no more than nine years to partition between Dick and Tim, which already violates the ten years given in Batman Year 3. Dick needs to be at least 18 by the time he becomes Nightwing; so even if we shorten Tim's career to three years (making his current age 16 or 17), Dick would have had to be at least 12 when he became Robin.

    3. Put the time travel shenanigans back into Jon's timeline. Squeezing ten years between the marriage of Lois and Clark and the present ends up putting events such as Doomsday within the first three years of Batman's career, arguably before the formation of the original Justice League. That simply does not work. Instead, adapt something more or less along the lines of what actually happened: just before Flashpoint, Lois and Clark were visiting Gotham City when it was sucked away in a time vortex to the Convergence event. After joining the “Crisis rescue squad” at the end of that event, the Kents found themselves on Earth 52, ten years ago, where Jon grew up. The Superman: Lois and Clark and Superman: Rebirth events took place there, right up until Superman Reborn, the ending of which gets rewritten slightly to bring the Earth 52 Superman and Lois back to life while transporting the Kents back to Earth 0. The Kents now need only explain what happened to them for however long it was between Flashpoint and their return to Earth 0, and where their 10-year-old soon came from. Chalk the former up to having to go into hiding for a time (as per the Superman Reborn timeline, but for nowhere near as long: less than a year, I'd say); and explain the latter as an adoption.

    I think that about covers it. The timeline is still cramped; but it works. Barely.

    The timeline would work a lot better with another six or seven years added to it, to put Dick in his mid-20s and to give room for a ten-year gap between Dick's debut as Robin and Tim's arrival on the modern scene. But you'd still need forced aging of Damian and time shenanigans for Jon.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 11-23-2022 at 08:22 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    1939 (Detective Comics #27)...and well, that's my only thought, Mr Bat39.
    LOL. In that case, Superman should be perpetually 38.

    I'd sure hate to be poor Barry Allen...

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Told people Dick is in his mid 20s! Dc still want's Bruce some what young. Plus Tim's orgin doesn't work with Dick in his early 30s.
    It works if Tim is in his mid-20's. My ideal timeline would have Bruce in his 40's, Dick in his 30's, Tim in his 20's, and Damian as a teenager.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Don't forget, this a "future" that is being monkeyed with by Per Degaton.

    May not mean anything when all is said and done.
    True, but I don't see any reason why they'll change the stuff pertaining to Batman's past established here. The future is just a 'possible' one that might be erased, but the past is meant to be mainstream continuity as it stands now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    The only way I can see to make the modern timeline make sense is:

    1. Forced aging for Damian. Forget the new “13 years since Batman's debut” revelation: Son of the Demon was published in 1987 when Jason Todd was already Robin; so you'd need over ten years to pass between that point and Damian's introduction in Morrison's run; and even if you give Tim a generous six years between his debut and Damian's arrival (which we probably can't do; see below), that would still mean that four years would have had to have passed in the comics published between 1987 and 1989. I just don't see that happening. You might buy a little more time by backdating Son of the Demon a bit; but as it featured Nightwing, you can only push it back so far.

    2. Keep Tim de-aged, and increase the age both Dick and Tim were when Dick became Robin. If it has been 13 years since Batman's debut, Dick Grayson's debut as Robin cannot have been more than 12 years ago, probably more like 11 years. We need to fit Dick's, Jason's, Tim's, and now Damian's times as Robin into those 11 years. Even if we keep Jason's and Damian's times as Robin short (no more than a year each), that still leaves his no more than nine years to partition between Dick and Tim, which already violates the ten years given in Batman Year 3. Dick needs to be at least 18 by the time he becomes Nightwing; so even if we shorten Tim's career to three years (making his current age 16 or 17), Dick would have had to be at least 12 when he became Robin.

    3. Put the time travel shenanigans back into Jon's timeline. Squeezing ten years between the marriage of Lois and Clark and the present ends up putting events such as Doomsday within the first three years of Batman's career, arguably before the formation of the original Justice League. That simply does not work. Instead, adapt something more or less along the lines of what actually happened: just before Flashpoint, Lois and Clark were visiting Gotham City when it was sucked away in a time vortex to the Convergence event. After joining the “Crisis rescue squad” at the end of that event, the Kents found themselves on Earth 52, ten years ago, where Jon grew up. The Superman: Lois and Clark and Superman: Rebirth events took place there, right up until Superman Reborn, the ending of which gets rewritten slightly to bring the Earth 52 Superman and Lois back to life while transporting the Kents back to Earth 0. The Kents now need only explain what happened to them for however long it was between Flashpoint and their return to Earth 0, and where their 10-year-old soon came from. Chalk the former up to having to go into hiding for a time (as per the Superman Reborn timeline, but for nowhere near as long: less than a year, I'd say); and explain the latter as an adoption.

    I think that about covers it. The timeline is still cramped; but it works. Barely.

    The timeline would work a lot better with another six or seven years added to it, to put Dick in his mid-20s and to give room for a ten-year gap between Dick's debut as Robin and Tim's arrival on the modern scene. But you'd still need forced aging of Damian and time shenanigans for Jon.
    Actually, Damian's conception is retroactively meant to have taken place during the classic Ra's al Ghul ''Tales of the Demon'' stories from the 70's (going by Batman Inc # 2, as well as a few other stories I think). That was during Dick's college years.

    On a 13 year timeline, we can assume Dick became Robin 11 or 12 years ago. Let's take it as 12 for the sake of argument. If Dick was 12 when he started out, he'd have been 17, at the very least, before he was in college (I seem to remember reading somewhere that Dick was 17 when he went to college, but I don't remember). So that means the earliest Damian's conception could have happened is 7 years ago.

    Frankly, the only solutions to Damian's age are - 1) Adding about 7 more years to this timeline (or maybe just a few more years but pushing Bruce meeting Talia to earlier in his Batman career), 2) Rapid aging, 3) Retconning Bruce and Talia's first meeting to taking place before Bruce became Batman (which changes the nature of the Bruce, Ra's and Talia dynamic - Ra's picks Bruce as his heir/Talia's husband because of his prowess as Batman).

    It's a bit hard to give a character a teenage kid and keep him perpetually under 40 even as the kid grows older.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    It always comes down to the teens; they have this nasty habit of growing up.
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  15. #15
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    This would conflict wildly with established information like, as you said, Damian's age and the age of Astrid Arkham, born after Batman came on the scene and in her "late teens, pushing twenty" by the time we meet her. Aside from the New 52, it would also make this the most absurdly compressed version of DC's timeline that has ever been presented. I think I'm going to safely ignore it.

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