Cass Cain vs Baki Hanma

[Jcogginsa]

Two prodigious martial artists with very strained relationships with their parents tke each other on.

This will not be a bloodlusted match to the death. Rather, these two will meet up in a tournament match in Dragonball's Tenkaichi Budokai, and follow the same rules. Thus victory can only be obtained via 10 count or ring out.

EDIT: This is Post-Crisis Cass BTW

[Guy1]

Two prodigious martial artists with very strained relationships with their parents tke each other on.

This will not be a bloodlusted match to the death. Rather, these two will meet up in a tournament match in Dragonball's Tenkaichi Budokai, and follow the same rules. Thus victory can only be obtained via 10 count or ring out.

How does their speed compare these days?

[Jcogginsa]

How does their speed compare these days?

Baki, I don't know. Never read the series. I glanced through a respect thread to see if there was anything that puts him outrageously over her, and saw he had some "possible bullet dodging" feats.

As for Cass, this is supposed to be classic post-crisis Cas. Forgot to put that in the OP.

[Nik Hasta]

Peak Cassie is likely a bit faster than Baki but it's not by a huge amount.

Good Baki speedfeats off the top of my head.

- When being swung by Yujiro and smashed through a car, Baki not only parried/punched his way through the car with such speed that Yujiro didn't know he'd done it but he also had enough time and coordination to snatch up various components of the car to construct a small doll as it was happening.
- Baki and Oliva having a punch fight, as in just standing there and wailing on each other, was so fast that they were just an invisible blur to the group of security guards watching them.
- Baki vs Pickle has them both zipping around Kourakuen Hall nigh-invisibly to several of the upper tiers of the Baki setting.
- When surrounded by six armed gunmen, Baki tells them that he's in no danger because they are in his range, him having cracked the glasses of their commander in front of him and also having snatched a button from their shirts of each of the gunners in an instant without them perceiving him moving.
- Various feats of becoming invisible through sheer speed.

There's also some like ambiguous bullet dodging from people lower on the totem pole than Baki himself. Given that he is way more durable and stronger than Cassie, he's in with a chance. She does have her pressure point stuff which will help but this is not an easy fight for her.

[Sharpandpointies]

But…0.5 second reaction time!

^_^

[Nik Hasta]

But…0.5 second reaction time!

^_^

That's quite enough out of you, sir.

[Sharpandpointies]

That's quite enough out of you, sir.

^_^

More seriously, I'm with Nik. The Body-Reading is a big advantage for Cass here (setting aside comedy about Baki's body being weirdly hard to read...); if Cass didn't have that, I would put all my money on Baki.

Strength: As good as Cass's hitting power is, it's pretty much mediocre for Baki's group (it's not insignificant - she does treat bullet-proof glass like spun sugar). Baki hits much, much harder. Which leads to...
Durability: Cass's damage soak is fantastic, but compared to Baki-level people, it's at absolute best...meh. Like, kind of crap. Baki's durability, on the other hand, is immense. I feel Cass can bruise him with normal strikes, buuuut...not much more than that. Like, if he just stood there and tried to take it, she would eventually beat him down, but this isn't that situation. Whereas his hits, if anywhere near solid, will flat-out start breaking her up.
Speed: I feel Cass has the nod here, but Baki's feats put him in that category of 'no actual bullet-timing, but the feats are consistent with a bullet-timer'. So while I would give Cass a speed ADVANTAGE, it's not at all blitz-worthy.
Skill: Both are top-end of their respective stories. Both do crazy stuff with skill. Both pick up new techniques and abilities nigh instantly. I would honestly give Baki the nod here for esoteric, weird techniques.
Other stuff: Baki has some weird techniques like the cockroach rush and so forth that will give Cass problems. Body-reading, however, is a soft counter to those, and is a very serious advantage for Cass for the regular fighting. The lack of equipment hurts Cass, though.

I'm a little torn. This may be one of the closest fights I've seen for Cass (current winner for that is Shang Chi). Yes, she can win via pressure points, and her greater speed and body-reading means she has a decent chance of delivering them. However, it's not a blitz, Baki CAN defend himself, and Baki has a chance to either hit her and start the downward spiral or manage to get her with one of his more weird techniques.

NuCass gets completely demoed and that's that.

[Nik Hasta]

Other stuff: Baki has some weird techniques like the cockroach rush and so forth that will give Cass problems. Body-reading, however, is a soft counter to those, and is a very serious advantage for Cass for the regular fighting. The lack of equipment hurts Cass, though.

Body reading on Gokiburi Rush would be super weird.





Cass: "He's... turning his organs... no his whole body to... liquid...? But not... wait, what's happening? He thinks he is and it's happening but it's not happening...? I-" *gets hit by Baki at 250 mph*

[Sharpandpointies]

Body reading on Gokiburi Rush would be super weird.





Cass: "He's... turning his organs... no his whole body to... liquid...? But not... wait, what's happening? He thinks he is and it's happening but it's not happening...? I-" *gets hit by Baki at 250 mph*

Would be interesting (and amusing) to see her deal with that. 250 mph isn't at all fast compared to bullets, but at the same time, bullets aren't as big as Baki and he can adjust his movement unlike them.

On the other hand, the absolute contemptuous ease with which Cass deals with bullets does make the point about her speed (also, her moving ~5' to punch someone in the time it takes a bullet to travel 10' is a pretty good indicator of how freakishly fast she is, herself).

I think this attack at least has a possibility of clipping her, which would (again) set up a rather downward spiral given the kind of force Baki puts out.

[Kuro]

Baki is stronger than Kaoru, who at the very beginning of the series, was strong enough to rip a phone book in half and tear a chunk out of a deck of cards. Don't think Cass wants to get hit with that.

Though to be fair, the aforementioned feats could be more of a grip thing which is what Kaoru is renowned for

[big_adventure]

Baki is stronger than Kaoru, who at the very beginning of the series, was strong enough to rip a phone book in half and tear a chunk out of a deck of cards. Don't think Cass wants to get hit with that.

Though to be fair, the aforementioned feats could be more of a grip thing which is what Kaoru is renowned for

Real people can rip phone books in half.

Baki's much, much stronger than that by now though. Actually, to be fair, I've only seen the anime, and not the manga, and have no idea how closely they track.

[Kuro]

Real people can rip phone books in half.
.

*looks for a real phone book to rip in half… doesn’t find one because it’s 2022*

Lies.

[Sharpandpointies]

Anyone have the art for the phone book rip?

Because there's a certain technique that's used to rip phone books in real life. Without using that technique, it is pretty much impossible. ^_^

Granted, it's not exactly a high superhuman bar to be able to tear a phone book without using that technique; Baki has much more insane feats of striking power.

[Nik Hasta]

Baki as far back as Son of Ogre, was strong enough to beat Oliva in a straight up, no-defence slugfest.

Prior to that, in the same encounter, Oliva tackled Baki through multiple reinforced concrete prison walls without an issue, Baki smashed through a foot thick wall without even realising that he'd done it. Baki also blew a crater in a concrete wall by flexing his back on it.

Pickle tore apart a truck with his bare hands like it was a toy and was shown to be about even with Karou and Baki went toe-to-toe with him and kind of... won the fight? Or rather could have one but he decided to the old "no defence, just punching," bit.

Though, to Itagaki's credit, Baki's internal monologue is like; "This is a horrible idea but I wanna do it,"

[Sharpandpointies]

Baki as far back as Son of Ogre, was strong enough to beat Oliva in a straight up, no-defence slugfest.

Prior to that, in the same encounter, Oliva tackled Baki through multiple reinforced concrete prison walls without an issue, Baki smashed through a foot thick wall without even realising that he'd done it. Baki also blew a crater in a concrete wall by flexing his back on it.

Pickle tore apart a truck with his bare hands like it was a toy and was shown to be about even with Karou and Baki went toe-to-toe with him and kind of... won the fight? Or rather could have one but he decided to the old "no defence, just punching," bit.

Though, to Itagaki's credit, Baki's internal monologue is like; "This is a horrible idea but I wanna do it,"

This sort of thing is somewhat above Cass in terms of hitting power.

How far?

- Cass busts through the exterior wall of a prison building, but it takes her time.
- Cass breaks through 3" of 'fused quartz' in about three hits.
- Cass treats 'bulletproof' glass like spun sugar, going right through it.
- Cass shatters (into shards) as sword held in the hands of a master fighter (ie, not fixed in place) with a fingertip strike.
- Cass's punches draw blood and cries of pain from someone who can put a 9mm pistol up to his own head, pull the trigger, and end up with all of a flattened slug bouncing on the ground and zero injuries.
- Cass kicks her 220 lbs father, who is strapped to a chair that is bolted to the ground. The chair snaps the bolts, Cain and chair fly a good 5-6' and slam into the wall, still well-above the ground. Would have kept going if not for the wall.
- Cass sends cracks through subway walls by headbutting them.
- Cass shatters 6" thick marble headstones with missed strikes (ie, they are not her primary target).

Etc.

Like, she actually hits really, really hard.

As hard as Baki? Nope. But really hard.