Movie Wonder Woman vs MCU Captain Marvel vs Fox Dark Phoenix

[Postmania]

Who takes it?

1) standard arena battle
2) no flight
3) In character without bloodlust, in the trenches of the Somme during World War 1

Bonus: All three vs show Homelander.

[Captain Morgan]

Wait... Which Fox Dark Phoenix?

[Postmania]

Wait... Which Fox Dark Phoenix?

Oh there was a second one. Uh, the first trilogy's Dark Phoenix, but you can include answers for the other I suppose too

[big_adventure]

Assuming the first trilogy Dark Phoenix:

Round one: At the bell, I will give Wondy the credit to know to kill Phoenix first - she's a glass cannon, but it's an exceedingly potent cannon. Once Phoenix is down, CM wins, eventually. Wondy simply doesn't hit hard enough to even slightly hurt someone who flat-out no-sells what Thanos can do, and CM's AoE energy projection is potent.

Round two: Doesn't really change anything: Phoenix dies, Wondy can't hurt CM, CM definitely CAN hurt Wondy = game over, eventually.

Round three: Phoenix wins - she's got Xavier+ telepathy and will shut the other two down before they can possibly find her. Game over.

The second Dark Phoenix stomps all three fights with silly ease. She's got the reaction time to react to mid-blitz Quicksilver, the juice to out-muscle Magneto with metals, beyond-Xavier-level telepathy, energy projection, matter manipulation and can take and ignore what appear to be killing shots, instantly autohealing over them. She's a serious beast and far too much for the heroes here. She just shuts down their minds, before either can react.

[The Arbiter]

I mostly agree with Big except I'm not totally sold that CM just casually wins against WW.

Being forced to deal with Pheonix first means that CM gets into the air and effectively out of reach of WW. Then she can continuously rain fire down upon her which is a good strategy.

However, my feelings are that WW can turtle efficiently behind her shields, bracelets and inherent durability for an extremely long time in response to said strategy. She was blocking Doomsday's super charged heat vision with her bracelets and could even turtle her whole body behind the shield against his apartment building flattening AoE without much trouble. The one time Doomsday's heat vision DID hit her without a defense in place, she yelled in pain and was briefly staggered but otherwise got right back up.

I also think the sword can hurt CM just fine. Which leads me to believe CM probably eventually wins a prolonged and very stressful game of attrition as she just keeps maneuvering around while laying down laser blasts. Eventually stuff starts to slip past and WW falters.

[big_adventure]

I don't think it's necessarily a casual win, but I'm very unsold on Wondy's sword doing anything at all to CM.

I agree that Wondy can defend against a LOT, and that plus her reaction-speed edge is going to make it a lot of work for Carol. She's going to have to catch Wondy around her defenses and actually hit her - but she's got AoE's and she's a muuuuuuuch faster flier so she will be able to get close enough for the AoEs to count, at least, eventually.

I get what you are saying, mind, I just don't really think that the sword, or anything else in Wondy's arsenal, are doing bupkis to Carol. Girlfriend uses her body as a missile weapon against city+ sized interstellar craft that fight against and dominate against advanced societies and she does this without a scratch. She flies through the army-slaughtering weaponry from this ship, and it does nothing. She flies through space at massively relativistic speeds, no problems. Thanos (who pounds Hulk, Thor, Bleeding Edge Iron Man no problem) tries to headbutt her, and barely gets a smirk for his effort - her head doesn't flinch. She's just stupidly tough - since she's mastered her powers, literally nothing has phased her at all.

[Postmania]

How would that equation change in fight 2 with no flight happening for CM?

Also didn't realize they buffed Dark Phoenix so much in her new movie. Almost makes me want to try and watch it...

[big_adventure]

How would that equation change in fight 2 with no flight happening for CM?

Also didn't realize they buffed Dark Phoenix so much in her new movie. Almost makes me want to try and watch it...

If you subscribe to my view that Wondy can't hurt Carol, it changes nothing. If you subscribe to Arby's view that Wondy CAN hurt Carol, it certainly makes Carol easier to hit.

And yes, Dark Phoenix in the new stuff is ridiculously powerful - she's a beast before she knows what she can do and before she kind of accepts it. Once she does, she's on another level still. I can't off-hand think of anyone from live-action superhero stuff who would have a chance against her. Thanos with the full IG? But he's far too slow to react to her pulling it off of him with TK massively stronger than Magneto's powers or just mind-controlling him.

The movie is... less powerful. :-) My kids loved it, if that's any consolation.

[Slade1]

I mostly agree with Big except I'm not totally sold that CM just casually wins against WW.

Being forced to deal with Pheonix first means that CM gets into the air and effectively out of reach of WW. Then she can continuously rain fire down upon her which is a good strategy.

However, my feelings are that WW can turtle efficiently behind her shields, bracelets and inherent durability for an extremely long time in response to said strategy. She was blocking Doomsday's super charged heat vision with her bracelets and could even turtle her whole body behind the shield against his apartment building flattening AoE without much trouble. The one time Doomsday's heat vision DID hit her without a defense in place, she yelled in pain and was briefly staggered but otherwise got right back up.

I also think the sword can hurt CM just fine. Which leads me to believe CM probably eventually wins a prolonged and very stressful game of attrition as she just keeps maneuvering around while laying down laser blasts. Eventually stuff starts to slip past and WW falters.

Why would CM be out of reach for WW when they both can fly? Or am I interpreting you wrong?

[StupidMoniker]

I'm very unsold on Wondy's sword doing anything at all to CM.

It does cut off Doomsday's arm. Is Carol massively more durable than Doomsday? I have no idea. Both bounce pretty impressive stuff (Doomsday tanks a nuclear missile and everything Superman can muster, Carol tanks Thanos hits and flying through his ship).

[big_adventure]

Why would CM be out of reach for WW when they both can fly? Or am I interpreting you wrong?

Carol flies MASSIVELY faster. WW takes some real amount of time to cover a short helicopter flight of distance. Carol covers interstellar distances in times like that, and searches a whole planet in seconds.

[Zagreus]

IDK...

I think WW has a shot. If Wondy keeps blocking Danvers photon blasts... which she should be able to do fairly effectively [this is Wonder Woman, blocking ranged attacks is part of her standard schtick] I totally see Danvers, a notable hot head, getting pissed off and deciding to try and end it with a k.o. to the face, brawler style.

At which point, Wondy takes her out with the sword.

Wondy is massively more skilled in melee. That would not go well for Carol. Unless it's been shown to the contrary, I'm of the opinion that that Wonder Woman's blade should be able to slice into Carol. I give it to Wonder Woman, but it's a close call.

[The Drunkard Kid]

IDK...

I think WW has a shot. If Wondy keeps blocking Danvers photon blasts... which she should be able to do fairly effectively [this is Wonder Woman, blocking ranged attacks is part of her standard schtick] I totally see Danvers, a notable hot head, getting pissed off and deciding to try and end it with a k.o. to the face, brawler style.

At which point, Wondy takes her out with the sword.

Wondy is massively more skilled in melee. That would not go well for Carol. Unless it's been shown to the contrary, I'm of the opinion that that Wonder Woman's blade should be able to slice into Carol. I give it to Wonder Woman, but it's a close call.

I don't know that movie Diana *is* massively more skilled than movie Carol, who was able to keep pace with her Kree commanding officer in superhuman Special Ops comic book martial arts sparring while explicitly trying to prevent herself from reflexively blasting him across the room.

That said, if it gets into melee I don't think Carol has any reflex speed feats on par with Diana's casual bullet timing and being able to immediately and actively close her hand around the hilt of her sword when Flash nudged it into her palm while he was acting in The World Stands Still mode and it becomes a question of wherever she can slash or restrain someone who no-sold a punch from the guy who wrecked the Hulk in melee.

That said, depending on how long it takes Carol to reach interstellar speeds, staying in one place long enough for Carol to be able to close in for melee in the first place might be a good way for Diana to end up being torn to shreds by a human-sized FTL bullet.

[StupidMoniker]

Since it seems like Diana has better reaction speed, what stops her from lassoing Carol at the bell and pulling her into melee range for a beatdown?

[Sharpandpointies]

Edited for wrong thread.