Justice Society of America #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Once again, Johns shows he can't kick his bad habit of killing characters for shock value or to raise stakes.

I wanted to see more of Helena's team.

The mist and Harlequin are my favorites so far.It's a time travel story so I'm hoping they come back. I'd read a spinoff with them and Huntress. Call it JSA rebels or something.

[MajorHoy]

I dont know if this really counts, since these aren't established characters and they're from a future timeline that will probably be averted anyway. It's not like Infinite Crisis, where he's massacring Titans left and right.

Aren't some of them previously established characters, like Gentleman Jim Craddock, Solomon Grundy, and Cameron Mahkent?

[Digifiend]

Yeah - Solomon and Cameron are even in Stargirl's TV show.

I’m confused as hell by the panel showing Batman’s funeral. It says “18 years from now,” but it shows Alfred, who is dead in the present day. And JSA members, who would be old now, look young two decades from now.

Don't forget, Jay, Alan and Ted should already be 100 years old. There are various things keeping them relatively young - that would still apply in 2040. Speed Force. Starheart. Wildcat's magical nine lives. Alan chooses to look old, he can look like he did when he first found the Lantern if he wants.

As for Alfred, death really isn't an issue for the superhero community. Damian has been dead at one point, as of course was Jason Todd. So has Superman, Barry Allen, Kara Zor-El, and most of the Green Lantern Corps. He'll be back sooner or later.

[superduperman]

Are we sure this is main universe? Between PG in the seventies and the Superman at the funeral, I'm not convinced this is a main universe book.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Are we sure this is main universe? Between PG in the seventies and the Superman at the funeral, I'm not convinced this is a main universe book.

I just thought it was it's own thing. But by the end it's should straighten itself out.

[Dr. Poison]

Once again, Johns shows he can't kick his bad habit of killing characters for shock value or to raise stakes.

I wanted to see more of Helena's team.

With this being a time-in-flux story, anything can happen before the story is over. It's quite likely these characters could be restored once Degaton is defeated.


I really like the future JSA team too and I hope to see Kyle Knight developed more.

[Refrax5]

Aren't some of them previously established characters, like Gentleman Jim Craddock, Solomon Grundy, and Cameron Mahkent?

Sure, that's true. But it's versions of them from a future timeline that I doubt is ever going to exist. I don't especially like Johns as a writer and I thought this was a pretty bad first issue, but I don't think characters dying in some alternate future timeline that isn't going to happen really counts.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Actually I meant romantic.

So did I

Johns was clearly modelling his Hal/Sinestro rivalry on Maverick/Iceman, from one of the gayest movies ever made.

[CaptCleghorn]

I read the issue and I have mixed feelings.

As to the presence of Helena Wayne, I think she's very important to bringing back a more traditional JSA. Alan, Carter, Jay, and Kara make for a good base, but Helena is the member that really puts the Earth Two feeling back into the team. I'm also OK with her being the focus of this story as it is the post-Flashpoint return story and something big is a good thing.

The timeline regarding PG and the Star Spangled Kid being around in 1976 is a question. Sure, a version of PG could have shown up then, but Sylvester couldn't have shown up before the JLA/JSA team up bring back the 7SV. And yes, something is definitely up with the timestream. I know this.

The future team of "reformed" villains is interesting. There's no reason this couldn't have happened. Cap's kooky quartet is one example.

Degaton's ramped up abilities is probably the best way to stretch this out to 12 issues even with 21st century writing for the trade. Being able to speed (and slow?) the personal time with any opponent and using that wisely is a huge advantage. Not to mention reversing or fast forwarding one's age status.

As to the final result of this (and Stargirl), I hope Johns can finish this as he plans to. DClock got hit with changes during its run as well as delays probably to avoid HBO spoilers. Even if I don't like it, I'd rather read the planned story

[Dataweaver]

Are we sure this is main universe? Between PG in the seventies and the Superman at the funeral, I'm not convinced this is a main universe book.

It's a main universe book; it's just that Johns has co-opted the 20th century of Earth 0 to serve as a stand-in for Earth 2.

This is a follow-up to The New Golden Age, which in turn is a follow-up to Flashpoint Beyond; and the parts of Flashpoint Beyond that it's following up on are clearly and unequivocally set on Earth 0. That series ended with two developments central to the new JSA series: first, thirteen people were released into the timeline, triggering changes to the timeline (who the thirteen are is detailed further in The New Golden Age, which is serving as a springboard for a whole line of books, starting with Stargirl: the Lost Children and Justice Society of America); and second, Bruce preserved the Flashpoint Beyond timeline in a snow globe: the same one Selina uses in this issue to send Helena into the past.

This feels like an Earth 2 book because Johns is focusing (for now, at least) on those aspects of the timeline that are rooted in Earth 2 history. But it's taking place on Earth 0.

Here's what I think Johns' intent is: Earth 0's 20th century is now standing in for Earth 2, from 1939 to 1985, with a few tweaks (e.g., the removal of Superman and Batman, and the addition of the Thirteen). Meanwhile, the early 21st century is on a sliding timescale, and basically serves as a modernized and modified version of the pre-Crisis Earth 1 — that is, everything from Superman's debut to the present. Furthermore, Johns is introducing a potential future that captures elements of the Earth 2 Batman (and possibly the Earth 2 Superman as well) that don't fit into the past; basically, the idea is that in this future, Batman and possibly Superman become more like their Earth 2 counterparts and end up recapitulating much of that history. That's what the “18 years from now” scene is about: it's the equivalent of Earth 2 Batman's funeral, but recast as a future demise of Earth 0's Batman.

Some theorizing on my part: if this is indeed Johns' intent, then this means that the various Earth 1/Earth 2 crossovers from the Silver Age are now being recast as cross-time events: Barry first encountered Jay by accidentally traveling back in time to 1961; this lead to the Justice Society reforming in 1962, and being visited by time-traveling members of the original Justice League. The crossover featuring the Seven Soldiers of Victory was already a time travel adventure; this just changes it to one where the “rescue parties” were formed from heroes coming from two eras rather than two Earths; and so on. This holds true right up through the Crisis on Infinite Earths, which ends with the bulk of the 20th century heroes and relevant supporting cast being time-skipped forward onto the early 21st century floating timeline. Depending on where the League's side of the Crisis falls on the floating timeline, that means that they were skipped forward at least 25 years (probably closer to 30 or even 35) and counting as the modern timeline slides forward.

This also takes advantage of the fact that Roy Thomas treated Earth 2 as progressing “in real time”, and incorporated the notion that the 1970s JSA was in fact thirty years older than the 1940s JSA. That's why the JSA's 20th century history works with actual publication dates instead of a compressed timescale.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Once again, Johns shows he can't kick his bad habit of killing characters for shock value or to raise stakes.
I wanted to see more of Helena's team.

I wouldn’t sweat it, it takes place 26 years in the future, the timeline will most likely not come to fruition, and if it does, well hey....that’s a long ways away.

Re: Red Lantern, I'm admittedly not too familiar with the character, but love the idea. I'm a sucker for anything early Cold War (we cannot allow... a mine shaft gap!!!), so I'm looking forward to seeing more.

He looks really cool. I’m hoping we get to see a showdown between him and Alan at some point.

I’m interested in the lore that powers his ring and how it differs from Alan’s magic.

[InfamousBG]

So I did like this. It was not what I was expecting.

I am glad Helena is the being used as the main focus to start. I like seeing the JSA Helena sets up and I loved everything with Power Girl.

I am much more interested now than I was before reading this so that is a good thing. This was a good start from Johns.

[Dataweaver]

spoilers:

Frankly, the one death in this issue that didn't make sense to me was the Gentleman Ghost. He's a ghost; so Degaton shifts him back on his personal timeline to a point when he was alive, and shoots him. But wouldn't that just make him a ghost again?

end of spoilers

[Jon Clark]

I enjoyed the New Golden Age one-shot, but this Justice Society of America #1 issue left me flat.

Unlike most of the people here I'd be happy to never see the Huntress' team again. Maybe if I'd actually read the decades of stories leading up to this team I'd feel differently. But not having 26 years of back story as to why these people are on the team I felt nothing for them. It was like Johns wanted us to be drawn in by his use of names associated with the team, but not actually have to use any pre-exising characterization.

"Hey look it's the Icicle from Pre-Flashpoint. Wasn't he a villain? [repeat for Grundy/Craddock] ... oh, they changed for reasons we'll never see". You lost my interest somewhere in the time jump.

I get that this is just a first issue, but there was nothing here I needed (or wanted) to read. I get the feeling i could pick up issue #2 without having read this and not feel like I had missed anything.

[Vordan]

Are we sure this is main universe? Between PG in the seventies and the Superman at the funeral, I'm not convinced this is a main universe book.

Remember Johns’ “Metaverse” concept? How Earth 0 actually has the entire publication history of the characters incorporated, it just shifts in response to what DC does with Superman? I expect that’s the explanation for PG debuting in the 1970s. This PG version is from an old timeline that got erased, paralleling this version of Helena Wayne who will likely end the series by erasing her own timeline too.