DCU Movies

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

So Ezra Miller turned audiences away big time. Remember who still has 10 to 15 minutes of screen time in Aquaman 2? Amber Heard.

Snyder really picked some winners.

Yes, because Zack Snyder predicted the exact personal issues that these actors would have.[/sarcasm] He also happened to cast one of the greatest actors of our generation as Lois Lane and most people would agree that his choices for Wonder Woman and Aquaman were legitimately great choices. Even one of the guys in charge of the DCU now has agreed with that. Wanna talk about that?

To be frank: this reads like you have a personal axe to grind with a man who you've never met and likely never will.

Momoa is not gonna play Aquaman again. I’m not a gambling man but I would put money on it.

I'm happy that you are certain.

Honestly, I'm 99% sure Jason Momoa is staying. He's the one JL actor of the original six likely to stay in the DCEU, between Cavill and Affleck being out, Miller most likely being out, Fisher obviously being out and Gadot sort of being on the fence (but I'd bet potentially being out).

DC/WB isn't looking at this reboot from some kind of emotional perspective. They don't want to 'purge' the Snyderverse or whatever the way some people on this forum want to. They simply want a shift in direction, and they're willing to keep stuff that works (or at any rate, that Gunn worked on and wants to keep). Their goal is to turn a profit, not commit to the ideological purity of a hard reboot. If they feel Momoa is still a draw, and retains a fairly passionate fanbase as Aquaman, and if the actor is in and Gunn wants him, then he'll stay, irrespective of Aquaman 2's performance most likely.

Thank you. Yes. I mean, I cannot say for certain what's gonna happen at all. Maybe he will stay. Maybe not. Maybe the entire JL is being replaced. Maybe the only ones being replaced are Batman and Superman.

But the people on this forum are approaching it as if it would be anathema and a personal insult to have anything from the Snyder DCEU remain and I'm like "uh, we already know some of it is." And when you point out that there are some logical inconsistencies with their argument, they get very defensive.

I know that the hardcore Snyder fanbase has never really been innocent, but a lot of the anti-Snyder fans on this forum are bringing a vitriolic toxicity to this discussion that really doesn't need to be there.

[Coop]

But the people on this forum are approaching it as if it would be anathema and a personal insult to have anything from the Snyder DCEU remain and I'm like "uh, we already know some of it is." And when you point out that there are some logical inconsistencies with their argument, they get very defensive.

I know that the hardcore Snyder fanbase has never really been innocent, but a lot of the anti-Snyder fans on this forum are bringing a vitriolic toxicity to this discussion that really doesn't need to be there.

For me I would vastly prefer a hard reboot just because it's more exciting and fresh and a clean break. That to me is more interesting and would make me more interested in the DCU than patching the shambles of the DCEU and giving it a new label. To me with this whole thing being burdened by the mistakes of the past the whole endeavor seems much less interesting and exciting. It feels less like a fresh start and more like settling in for the next decade of mediocrity with a new boss.

That stuff had it's turn. It didn't work out. I'd rather it make room for something fresh. If we need to see those other actors again bring them back and some sort of multiverse thing down the line.

[Lightning Rider]

I really liked Snyder's DC films but I would rather something totally new than a convoluted Frankenstein. A new direction with fresh faces.

[Refrax5]

Yes, because Zack Snyder predicted the exact the personal issues that these actors would have.[/sarcasm] He also happened to cast one of the greatest actors of our generation as Lois Lane and most people would agree that his choices for Wonder Woman and Aquaman were legitimately great choices. Even one of the guys in charge of the DCU now has agreed with that. Wanna talk about that?

To be frank: this reads like you have a personal axe to grind with a man who you've never met and likely never will.



I'm happy that you are certain.



Thank you. Yes. I mean, I cannot say for certain what's gonna happen at all. Maybe he will stay. Maybe not. Maybe the entire JL is being replaced. Maybe the only ones being replaced are Batman and Superman.

But the people on this forum are approaching it as if it would be anathema and a personal insult to have anything from the Snyder DCEU remain and I'm like "uh, we already know some of it is." And when you point out that there are some logical inconsistencies with their argument, they get very defensive.

I know that the hardcore Snyder fanbase has never really been innocent, but a lot of the anti-Snyder fans on this forum are bringing a vitriolic toxicity to this discussion that really doesn't need to be there.

For my part, I've never been hardcore pro or anti-Snyder, so if you're referring to me, you're definitely misunderstanding my intentions. All I said is that I doubt that most of the current actors aren't coming back besides the ones Gunn worked with and that the Flash movie didn't reboot the DCEU into the DCU. I liked some of the Snyder stuff. I actually liked Miller as Flash but never believed for one second they'd be kept because their real-life behavior made them a liability. I actually didn't mind the majority of the DCEU's casting. I just don't think Gunn is keeping much of anything from the past iterations.

[Refrax5]

Ray Fisher went after a man that had nothing to do with what he went through with Wheldon because he was not yet working for the company at the time.
He was then empowered by a set of fans and later a woman with an ax to grind because she wanted race issues in DC projects that did not need them.




Generally that is a weapon of thought mainly used against characters of color.

See Disney Strange World-the gay son is blamed when his sexuality had nothing to do with it.
See Ms Marvel, Miles, Duke, Nubia, Brawn, Riri Williams, John Stewart, Synch, Jo, Lightning Lad, Malik White, Wallace, Naomi, Jace, Yar, Jaime Reyes and so many more I could name who have ALL been blamed for books being bad. Especially books they DON'T appear in.

Because folks would rather not deal in FACTS.

It's NEVER the actors, writers, editors, store owners and other factors at fault.


DC wants someone to blame-start with WHO did the hiring of Ezra.
WHO caved in and gave more money to something they needed to move on from.

Optics look bad that Batgirl of color lost her movie.
Toxic guy kept his and the excuse is too much money invested.

How much more cutting is WB going to have to do to make up for this huge loss?

Who probably just lost their movie deal? Does Static lose his movie? Does Lois & Clark get GUTTED even more?

I'm not denying that sometimes happens with POC characters, but it also happens to other characters for other reasons, which is what we're discussing here. I'm not sure how you somehow manage to do the same rambling lecture on a daily basis regardless of the actual topic being discussed, but that takes some remarkable stretching.

[Maestro 216]

Well, in Ezra's case, a) the movie was already shot so there was no scope of replacing him without spending tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars, and b) all the stuff he's done or alleged to have done had nothing to do with his relationship with WB per se.

In the case of Ray Fisher, the guy specifically targeted a bunch of senior WB executives, accusing them of racism (or enabling racism) and generally made it a point to be a pain in the ass for the studio for a few years. Understandably they'd want to keep their distance.

WB is a business at the end of the day. No one's interested in morality and political ideology unless it makes/loses them money. Frankly, I don't think the majority of the audience gives a damn either. Even now, unless someone can specifically prove it, I don't think Ezra Miller's controversy necessarily caused the movie to perform poorly - sadly, there were a whole bunch of other factors at play. Including perhaps Miller's own poor performance in JL.



Honestly, I'm 99% sure Jason Momoa is staying. He's the one JL actor of the original six likely to stay in the DCEU, between Cavill and Affleck being out, Miller most likely being out, Fisher obviously being out and Gadot sort of being on the fence (but I'd bet potentially being out).

DC/WB isn't looking at this reboot from some kind of emotional perspective. They don't want to 'purge' the Snyderverse or whatever the way some people on this forum want to. They simply want a shift in direction, and they're willing to keep stuff that works (or at any rate, that Gunn worked on and wants to keep). Their goal is to turn a profit, not commit to the ideological purity of a hard reboot. If they feel Momoa is still a draw, and retains a fairly passionate fanbase as Aquaman, and if the actor is in and Gunn wants him, then he'll stay, irrespective of Aquaman 2's performance most likely.

But wouldn't they want a more "acurate" version of Aquaman?

[bat39]

But wouldn't they want a more "acurate" version of Aquaman?

Define "accurate".

Momoa's Aquaman, hair color notwithstanding, is virtually the splitting image of the Aquaman from the 90's and the JL/JLU cartoons that many moviegoers today would have grown up watching. He's the Aquaman who starred in a film that grossed a billion and redefined the character for a global audience.

Before Momoa, the pop-culture perception of Aquaman was of "the guy who talks to fish" from the Superfriends cartoons.

[Vordan]

Variety: ‘The Flash’ Box Office ‘Disaster’ Exposes DC’s $1.1 Billion Problem for Warner Bros.

Zaslav storming into Gunn/Safran's office to talk after reading the article:

If anyone was going to get their neck wrung for this it would’ve been Hamada, if he was still at WB. As the article itself says:

(The studio did have fair warning; Miller was caught on video in April 2020 choking a woman in Iceland, months before “The Flash” went into production.)

They should’ve either delayed and recast the role after that or just cancelled the movie. Hamada choosing to stick with Miller is going to go down as one of the dumbest decisions of all time, that was the kickoff for all the bad PR for the Flash movie. Hamada is lucky he left when he did because I doubt anyone running WB would have let him exit with a golden parachute after this. Majority of what he greenlit has flopped: BoP, Shazam 2, Black Adam, and now Flash. Only Joker and the Batman were huge successes, Aquaman was before he took over. His plans for a Frankenstein universe with Snyder castings alongside Supergirl and Batgirl would have been an absolute nightmare.

[bat39]

On another thread, I shared the IMDB rankings for the DCEU films.

Zack Snyder's Justice League - 8
Wonder Woman - 7.4
The Flash - 7.3
The Suicide Squad - 7.2
Man of Steel - 7.1
Shazam! - 7
Aquaman - 6.8
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - 6.4
Black Adam - 6.3
Justice League - 6.1
Birds of Prey - 6.1
Shazam! Fury of the Gods - 6
Suicide Squad - 5.9
Wonder Woman 1984 - 5.4

The Flash is currently the third-highest ranked DCEU movie on IMDB. So people who've watched it clearly like it. I guess the problem is...not many people are watching it

[blunt_eastwood]

I really enjoyed The Flash. It was much better than I thought it would be.

[Robotman]

I really enjoyed The Flash. It was much better than I thought it would be.

From what I’ve seen from fan reviews and just talking to people in my day to day, it seems like the majority who’ve watched really enjoyed it. So the quality of the movie wasn’t the main issue.

The Ezra Miller situation seems to be the main reason why people stayed away. Followed by the reboot stuff.

[lefthanded]

On another thread, I shared the IMDB rankings for the DCEU films.

Zack Snyder's Justice League - 8
Wonder Woman - 7.4
The Flash - 7.3
The Suicide Squad - 7.2
Man of Steel - 7.1
Shazam! - 7
Aquaman - 6.8
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - 6.4
Black Adam - 6.3
Justice League - 6.1
Birds of Prey - 6.1
Shazam! Fury of the Gods - 6
Suicide Squad - 5.9
Wonder Woman 1984 - 5.4

The Flash is currently the third-highest ranked DCEU movie on IMDB. So people who've watched it clearly like it. I guess the problem is...not many people are watching it

I generally distrust Imdb due to the vulnerability to review bombing and the opposite of review bombing (I can't seem to think what the term for that is).
Paddington 2 rating below Snyder's Justice League is proof right there. I would especially ignore The Flash's review score until we see where it settles a year from now (when all the hype dies out, and the people who are giving the ratings aren't just the always online internet folk).

Having said all that, these scores do seem pretty accurate (aside from The Flash, which I haven't seen, and aside from Snyder's Justice League, which is better than the 6.1 Justice League but not 8.1 better). I would argue that Black Adam and Suicide Squad deserve to be the two worst rated, but essentially getting rated as <6.3 is pretty accurate for those movies.

[Serpico Jones]

Gal again confirms she is still in talks to stay as wonder woman. Pretty much a crisis reboot of "chance some things but everything else is the same".

https://deadline.com/2023/06/gal-gad...re-1235421347/

What is going on at WB? Jesus, what a mess.

[Maestro 216]

What is going on at WB? Jesus, what a mess.

Trying to have a soft reboot apparently.

[Last Son of Krypton]

If anyone was going to get their neck wrung for this it would’ve been Hamada, if he was still at WB. As the article itself says:

There are too many factors that are working against these films, but it's funny to imagine a penny-pincher like Zaslav having an outburst for every dollar he loses and pressures more the poor Gunn and Safran duo. If I'm not mistaken WBD's major successes post pandemic were The Batman and Fantastic Beats 3 ($407m). WB isn't in its best shape.

They should’ve either delayed and recast the role after that or just cancelled the movie. Hamada choosing to stick with Miller is going to go down as one of the dumbest decisions of all time, that was the kickoff for all the bad PR for the Flash movie. Hamada is lucky he left when he did because I doubt anyone running WB would have let him exit with a golden parachute after this. Majority of what he greenlit has flopped: BoP, Shazam 2, Black Adam, and now Flash. Only Joker and the Batman were huge successes, Aquaman was before he took over. His plans for a Frankenstein universe with Snyder castings alongside Supergirl and Batgirl would have been an absolute nightmare.

Take them out the list, Joker and The Batman were greenligt in 2017 pre-Hamada.

Hamada's overall plan was to establish the multiverse via Flash and its sequel to build to a new continuity separated from the one started by Snyder. If his movies failed, at worst his plan would've cut short to jump straight into a "rebooted" universe... which is what's happening under Gunn.