DCU Movies

[HsssH]

It’s not like people paid to see cavil or gadot in black adam or Shazam
Not worth the effort at this point

But it was already done, looking at the results maybe changing it was not worth the effort?

[Rac7d*]

But it was already done, looking at the results maybe changing it was not worth the effort?

Doesn’t matter now does it. A different ending scene can’t save a film.

[Frontier]

THR article on why Gunn's changed the ending of The Flash and the original plans to build toward a Crisis event to "reset" the DCU:

The Flash began life under the studio regime run by Toby Emmerich and his lieutenant, DC Films boss Walter Hamada. Most of the shooting and post-production was undertaken under that leadership, with the movie as part of Hamada’s plan to have Flash build to a major reset of the entire DC cinematic universe, departing from the one established by filmmaker Zack Snyder with Man of Steel a decade ago. Hamada planned a Flash sequel and then wanted to move to a movie inspired by the 1980s classic comic event, Crisis on Infinite Earths.

The Flash, as it was originally conceived and shot, ended on the courthouse steps with Supergirl, played by Sasha Calle, and Batman, played by Michael Keaton, who was already featured throughout the movie as a returned Batman. It was meant to highlight that Barry did not reset the timeline as he thought he did. It was an ending that was screen tested several times, spoilers:

one that reversed the deaths of Supergirl and Batman earlier in the film.

end of spoilers

However, the movie got caught in the lightning storm that was Discovery’s acquisition of Warner Bros. in 2022. Emmerich and Hamada were ousted, and Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav was on the hunt for an executive to run DC. In the meantime, Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy were installed as Warner Bros. Pictures Group chairpersons and CEOs. They were tasked with overseeing DC in the meantime, and suddenly and certainly not unexpectedly they had their own plans.

A new The Flash ending was conceived. This new version was still on the courthouse steps, but now Calle’s Supergirl was joined by Superman, played by Henry Cavill, and Wonder Woman, played by Gal Gadot. Keaton also remained. De Luca and Abdy believed they were being strategic with the ending. Cavill was going to cameo for DC movie Black Adam and was being teed up to return to the role in a brand Superman new movie. Supergirl was retained because even though the executives were killing the development of a standalone Supergirl movie, they were open to her returning in some form and didn’t want the last image audiences saw of her spoilers:

to be her death at the hands of a supervillain (Michael Shannon’s General Zod).

end of spoilers

Meanwhile, the studio was developing a third installment of Wonder Woman with filmmaker Patty Jenkins and star Gadot. This was a nice way to keep Wonder Woman in the cultural conversation. This ending was shot in September involving Miller, Cavill and Gadot as well as Keaton and Calle.

Then came another lightning strike. In November, Zaslav announced that filmmaker James Gunn and producer Peter Safran were to run DC Studios, overseeing all DC film and television efforts. And suddenly and certainly not unexpectedly, they had their own plans.

Knowing they were resetting the DC universe under their own vision, Gunn and Safran saw that having Cavill and Gadot in the new ending was potentially promising something their plans were not going to deliver. One of the first actions the duo took was to scrap the Cavill Superman film, and they parted ways with Jenkins, effectively killing the third Wonder Woman installment.

The filmmakers, according to multiple people associated with the movie, then looked for alternatives but wanted to keep the germ of the idea: Barry Allen thinks all is right, but then has the rug pulled out at the last moment. They also went back to an idea joked about earlier in the filmmaking process: “How many Batmen can we get?” spoilers:

Clooney was brought up as a long-shot, but Gunn and Safran jumped on the notion. The duo reached out to Clooney’s agent at CAA, Bryan Lourd, showing him a cut of the mostly finished film. He liked it and then showed it to Clooney. Clooney liked it and agreed to be a part of it. A shoot was quickly assembled and on a January morning on the Warners lot, Clooney was there as Wayne, back for the first time in 26 years. Also on set was Miller, making their first appearance on the lot since the fateful day in August where they met with De Luca and Abdy to discuss their controversial behavior (including multiple arrests) and steps forward. Miller was in top form that day, sources say, for what was described as a quick and efficient shoot. Clooney and Miller spent some time together in between takes with the veteran actor having a talk with the younger actor, giving encouraging advice about handling being in the public eye and behaving in public.

end of spoilers
Warner kept the new ending tucked away as much as possible. The studio didn’t even screen test it. And when it screened the movie at CinemaCon for theater owners and press in April, it stopped short of revealing who came to the courthouse steps. The first time the new ending was seen by anyone other than the filmmakers was at screenings for press the week of June 4, and then at the movie’s premiere last June 12.

“It’s rare that you have a movie in post-production that faces three separate regimes with three separate agendas,” notes one insider. “None of them were scrapped because of ill will, just different visions.”

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...an-1235517975/

This is just convoluted enough to make sense for a DC property.

This is my feeling too. People will see Superman: Legacy as a standalone no matter what because it'll be a brand new cast, and Superman is popular enough that the movie will definitely be at least a modest success if it's good. Meanwhile something like The Authority is doomed unless all of the stars align (tons of hype coming off of Legacy, absolutely stellar reviews/WoM up through release, perfect release timing with weeks of no competition, etc.). Even The Brave and the Bold seems misguided because Reeves/Pattinson Batman has been so well-received and they're barely creating any space between the two.

Frankly I feel like The Flash proves they're in no position to run out the gate with plans for a whole new DCU. The DCEU tarnished the brand too much (and will likely only get worse, considering Blue Beetle has "flop" written all over it and Aquaman 2 is testing terribly) and even if there were strong demand for another connected universe a 1-2 year break just isn't enough of a buffer. If it were up to me I'd prop up Reeves' Batman as the flagship live action franchise until Legacy, then rework Legacy so it could conceivably set up its own standalone franchise and do the same with a Wonder Woman reboot the following year. Keep the budgets for those in the sub-$200m range so they don't have to do insane numbers to succeed, put everything into making them really good, re-establish good will, then see what happens with something like The Authority. That way if an attempt at a larger universe didn't land they'd still have independent Trinity franchises to work with.

Their foundation is a lot better on TV though. Peacemaker was a big success so they could build on that a little. Harley Quinn is a huge hit so they could explore that more and see how things shake out with Caped Crusader and My Adventures with Superman. Maybe test the waters with a few animated films in the vein of Spiderverse as well, since they wouldn't have DC's live action baggage associated with them.

I think it looks like a fun Superhero romp but I'm not sure if you can get away with that anymore.

[bat39]

Yeah, that was the Gadot/Cavill cameo that trades reported back in Nov./Dec. 2022 it was cut. Cavill had also another scene that was removed.

It was dumb to not give to the characters and actors (all of them) a proper send off.

Honestly its a crime that Cavill didn't appear in some form. He could have just flown in at the start with Batman, WW and Flash on the bridge...maybe said something nice to Barry to compliment him on his work, or exchange some remarks with Bruce.

Yeah, there's that CGI 'cameo' in the Chronobowl but that's blink-and-you miss it. Christopher Reeve, George Reeves, and hell, Nicholas Cage actually get more screentime than Cavill in the last movie of a continuity/timeline that Cavill played the first protagonist of!

They could have had that ultimate happy ending with all the crew there, and still done Gunn's thing. Use the after credit sequence for that...to show the new universe in some fashion. That they didn't says something, I don't know what.

Maybe they could have just refilmed the last scene between Barry and Iris and have them go on their first date immediately. A pretty good note to end a Flash film on. And the post-credits scene with Momoa could have Barry talking about how the world has changed and he's still trying to figure out everything that's different. Maybe wondering if he should try going back again to bring back Batfleck and whether that would only mess things up more or not...

As it is, the impression I got from the post-credits scene is that Barry could have done more time-traveling and met more other versions of Bruce Wayne, and that Momoa as Aquaman is a multiversal constant of sorts for now...which makes sense since he still has a movie to go and of all the JL actors is the one most likely to stick around in Gunn's DCU.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The best of the part of the movie was the beginning hands down didn't expect X character to make a cameo so that was cool but unfortunately scene was sort of ruined by Miller and his dreadful acting. Even ignoring all his IRL stuff he's a terrible terrible actor in JL it was fine as he was a secondary character. One casting that ZS got horribly wrong

I fail to see what Gunn was trying to accomplish with the new ending. The fact WBD hidden it till release makes me think they were aware it was going to be disliked.

Yes the ending makes no sense. Especially since isn't Batman 89 to Batman & Robin supposed to be the same Batman?

This is not a good sign going forward, from Gunn thinking this is one the best comic book movies to that ending. Gunn still making one trick pony movies too

This Gunnverse isn't gonna last.

[Maestro 216]

This is just convoluted enough to make sense for a DC property.

I think it looks like a fun Superhero romp but I'm not sure if you can get away with that anymore.

Gunn likely just wanted the Flash to end everything so he can begin with a new slate hence the new ending. Just have fun and don't take it seriously he figured.

[bat39]

Yes the ending makes no sense. Especially since isn't Batman 89 to Batman & Robin supposed to be the same Batman?

Technically, yes. At least, that was probably the intent back in the 90's, when the concept of 'reboots' wasn't really a thing. And of course, you had Michael Gough and Pat Hingle continuing as Alfred and Gordon.

But that apart, it's a loose continuity at best. And a lot of fans baulk at the idea of the Burton and Schumacher films being in the same continuity due to the tonal disparities.

So DC's stance now seems to be that they are different versions - especially with stuff like the Batman '89 comic and now this film.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. This movie's explanation of the Multiverse pretty much explains every possible continuity quagmire - multiple versions of a character played by the same actor, one (or a few) actors being recast in a sequel while the others stay the same etc.

[marhawkman]

Gunn likely just wanted the Flash to end everything so he can begin with a new slate hence the new ending. Just have fun and don't take it seriously he figured.

Yeah, not really sure what Gunn's criteria for "best" is, but I do know that I don't consider all his ideas good, so.....

[bat39]

Gunn likely just wanted the Flash to end everything so he can begin with a new slate hence the new ending. Just have fun and don't take it seriously he figured.

You know, I've had some time to think about it, and the joke aspect is precisely what bothers me about the ending.

I get that the movie is supposed to be somewhat light-hearted (in fact, tonally I think it did a great job balancing the comedic moments against the seriousness of the premise). But the ending is the one joke that just feels totally out of place and at odds with the high personal and cosmic stakes Barry has faced off against throughout the film.

spoilers:

Like, if Barry came back and discovered that Keaton's Bruce and Calle's Kara were now part of his timeline...it'd be a shock moment, and he'd freak out about Batfleck being gone. But it'd still be an emotional moment seeing a version of these two back after they'd died (repeatedly) in the other timeline...so in some sense there is a catharsis of Barry having 'fixed' something, even if he also messed up something. If you consider he second planned ending, which included Cavill's Superman and Gadot's Wonder Woman, you have all of the above plus a 'happy ending' of seeing Cavill's Superman back (after he was killed as an infant in the other timeline) - after all, finding him has been a major part of the movie's narrative. There's also a sense of the 'band being back together' and things being a bit different, but back to a kind of 'normal'...a normal that can potentially be better. Now, even with Clooney they could theoretically have tried to strike some of these notes. They could have played into the shock value factor at first. Had Clooney's Bruce have a heartfelt conversation with Barry, reminiscent of Affleck's Bruce, and make us (and Barry) feel that yes, things are different, but this is still Bruce at the end of the day, and he's got Barry's back. Instead, the whole thing is played completely for laughs. Clooney's Bruce doesn't even particularly say anything that makes you feel that he's back (imagine if he'd said "That's why Superman works along!") He says the most generic stuff possible. And then they have Barry's tooth falling off. We don't dive into neither the fun nor the serious implications of having another 'legacy' Batman back. We don't have any emotional catharsis in terms of the Bruce-Barry relationship. We end a movie which, while light-hearted, was about Barry coming to terms with not being able to save his mom, and a version of him that he created almost causing the end of existence, with a silly 'a-ha' moment and the tail-end of a brick joke

end of spoilers

[Ascended]

True, it’s more important to just have *a* Superman villain we haven’t seen before then for it to be Brainiac necessarily. But Brainiac does have “brand awareness” thanks to his being used in the DCAU and in Injustice 2.

Absolutely. Brainiac is known and using him wouldn't be a bad idea, and fans have been waiting a long time to see that so it'd be extra great for us. But I think Ultra-Humanite or some other Z-list villain would work just as well, as long as the trailers (and film itself) successfully sell it. People will go see this for Clark, not whoever he's fighting, the bad guy is just to service whatever Clark's story is. And Brainiac might make sense for Legacy, given what we've heard, I just don't think you necessarily 'have' to go with a major villain.

Shit, as long as it's not Lex or Zod right?!

I just don’t see the logic in “if Gunn does HBO Max shows with Waller and Peacemaker that’s going to cause Legacy to flop” since it’s unlikely either will have any connection to Legacy. The League needs to be recast because they’re going to be the ones showing up in each other’s movies, but Waller and Peacemaker are unlikely to interact with Superman.

Well I don't think anyone is saying the Squad stuff will make Legacy *flop.* But it's brand association. The DCEU is toxic, so conventional business wisdom is to avoid making any connections or associations with it. And while Peacemaker and TSS were quality (started a Peacemaker re-watch last night actually) the concern is that their origins in the DCEU will have casual audiences assuming the new DCU will be cut from that same cloth. If Peacemaker and Waller are the same, what else is? New actors won't matter if audiences are expecting the same kind of story they were already disappointed by. Bottom line, the DCEU was so bad it's better to burn everything to the ground and salt the earth. DC's on shaky ground as it is, the theater industry is dealing with all manner of larger complications, it's gonna be challenge enough selling the new DCU without bringing over old faces who are related, however tangentially, to the past decade of failure.

And this might very well be a micromanage-y pointless concern. We don't have any of the data necessary to measure DC's brand recognition or its full ripple effect. So maybe this isn't a large factor, maybe 'Maker's show was successful enough to balance it out, who knows. But brand reputation is absolutely a thing, and it's hard to look at DC's performance and not come to the conclusion that it's playing a role of 'some' kind. Maybe DC has looked at the data and concluded it won't matter, the negative brand association won't reach far enough to hamper Legacy's performance. But they've been wrong before. Seems wiser to me to just remove the variable completely and not bring anything over at all. Put as much distance as possible between the new DCU and the old.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Yeah, that was a choice I'd heard about a few months ago and I question Gunn's judgement there, too. I'm fine with the ending overall, but if this isn't going to lead into the reboot (as this ending made obvious), I don't know why they wouldn't just keep the original ending, which was a much better ending for all of the characters.

I loved the movie and feel satisfied with what we got, although Miller obviously casts a shadow over all of it, regardless of their talent. I pretty much wholly agreed with bat39's review.

I feel Gunn wanted to make it looks these actors could be gone, replaced in the timeline, or there wouldn't be any reason to cut Gadot who still appear at the beginning of the film. You know his whole "the film reset things for my DCU but not really" bs just extended to the GA that will watch the movie and will be confused about what changed and what's the same.

Yeah because they wanted the film to make money so they kept it vague. But there was never any real intention on Gunn’s part to connect The Flash with his new universe. Ending it with a Cavill and Gadot appearance would have only confused the general public into thinking the universe would continue (plus the fact that it’s OW is doing this awful means there’s not much interest in the fate of these incarnations anyway).

I think the opposite, keeping Gadot and Cavill at the end to congrats Barry or whatever would make things less confusing for the audience than what they are getting now. Also, Barry meeting his friends at the end (and Sasha appearing) would provide a nice conclusion to the main story (and the DCEU) instead of leaving a bad taste in people's mouth with a joke ending and shitty fate of 3 supporting characters. It's not like Gunn's ending is helping in positive the perception of the film either. They still feel clueless to me on what they are doing in general.

Who's in charge had also that genius idea to show The Flash to thousands of people to get positive WoM almost 2 months before the movie hits the theaters but all the positive buzz was gone after awhile and they were left with leaked videos online that made the film looking worse than it was with negativity built around it by those who wanted it to fail. Clueless.

I bet something similar is the cards for Superman: Legacy to show how good it is before it'll be released... if WBD didn't get the memo that it's going to backfire. 😬

[Last Son of Krypton]

Honestly its a crime that Cavill didn't appear in some form. He could have just flown in at the start with Batman, WW and Flash on the bridge...maybe said something nice to Barry to compliment him on his work, or exchange some remarks with Bruce.

Yeah, there's that CGI 'cameo' in the Chronobowl but that's blink-and-you miss it. Christopher Reeve, George Reeves, and hell, Nicholas Cage actually get more screentime than Cavill in the last movie of a continuity/timeline that Cavill played the first protagonist of!

Maybe WBD will release in Blu Ray the alternate/extended version of the film with the original ending to make more money out the film.

Maybe they could have just refilmed the last scene between Barry and Iris and have them go on their first date immediately. A pretty good note to end a Flash film on. And the post-credits scene with Momoa could have Barry talking about how the world has changed and he's still trying to figure out everything that's different. Maybe wondering if he should try going back again to bring back Batfleck and whether that would only mess things up more or not...

Batfleck's fate and Barry potentially bringing him back was teased/addressed in the original mid-credits scene that Gunn obviously had to cut, it was setting up The Flash sequel and the Crisis film. Maybe THR will make an article about it one day.

[skyvolt2000]

Frankly I feel like The Flash proves they're in no position to run out the gate with plans for a whole new DCU. The DCEU tarnished the brand too much (and will likely only get worse, considering Blue Beetle has "flop" written all over it and Aquaman 2 is testing terribly) and even if there were strong demand for another connected universe a 1-2 year break just isn't enough of a buffer. If it were up to me I'd prop up Reeves' Batman as the flagship live action franchise until Legacy, then rework Legacy so it could conceivably set up its own standalone franchise and do the same with a Wonder Woman reboot the following year. Keep the budgets for those in the sub-$200m range so they don't have to do insane numbers to succeed, put everything into making them really good, re-establish good will, then see what happens with something like The Authority. That way if an attempt at a larger universe didn't land they'd still have independent Trinity franchises to work with.

Depends on what movie theater you have in your area.

AMC is doing DC no favors at least in my city.

Flash at most have only 4 showings while Spiderverse has 12 showings at theaters.
As of right now Spiderverse will be gone on Friday at AMC and Flash is only showing at about 4 AMC theaters. None of those locations are in malls.

Cinemark-Spiderverse slaughtered everyone with about 1000 tickets so far sold. Transformers and Elementals are 600 each. Flash??? 300.
As of right now Flash loses 3 theaters starting Thursday but still keeps about 4-8 showings in the remaining theaters.

If you got AMC-you might want to go opening night.


And another big baddie for Blue Beetle is guess who is heading back to school the week the movie comes out?
Almost all the public schools here start August 15th. Charters start the first of August. That is just Texas and most of the country.

Next Holiday isn't till Labor Day. So DC did the movie no favors with that release date.

[Last Son of Krypton]

The Flash Movie: Teddy Sears Weighs In on Doppelgänger Cameo Confusion (Exclusive)

The most bizarre dispute about this film lol.

[Vordan]

I feel Gunn wanted to make it looks these actors could be gone, replaced in the timeline, or there wouldn't be any reason to cut Gadot who still appear at the beginning of the film. You know his whole "the film reset things for my DCU but not really" bs just extended to the GA that will watch the movie and will be confused about what changed and what's the same.



I think the opposite, keeping Gadot and Cavill at the end to congrats Barry or whatever would make things less confusing for the audience than what they are getting now. Also, Barry meeting his friends at the end (and Sasha appearing) would provide a nice conclusion to the main story (and the DCEU) instead of leaving a bad taste in people's mouth with a joke ending and shitty fate of 3 supporting characters. It's not like Gunn's ending is helping in positive the perception of the film either. They still feel clueless to me on what they are doing in general.

Who's in charge had also that genius idea to show The Flash to thousands of people to get positive WoM almost 2 months before the movie hits the theaters but all the positive buzz was gone after awhile and they were left with leaked videos online that made the film looking worse than it was with negativity built around it by those who wanted it to fail. Clueless.

I bet something similar is the cards for Superman: Legacy to show how good it is before it'll be released... if WBD didn't get the memo that it's going to backfire. ��

But they’re not going “oh so we will be seeing Cavill and Gadot again?” the ending here is clearly not setting anything up for future movies. That’s what Gunn wants. And to be blunt there aren’t enough fans left of the DCEU who care about this Frankenstein’s monster of a universe getting a proper “ending”. That the OW ticket sales have been so bad shows that most people were never going to see this anyway.