DCU Movies

[manwhohaseverything]

I feel that faithfulness to comic adaptations is something that is usually applied in bad faith. Movies that are good, but are not at all faithful to the comics usually never get called out (Gunn's GotG is the exception here because it use to be that MCU fans insisted all those works were 'true to the comics' to which they got called out on). When it is a movie you don't like and it happens to be unfaithful to the comics, well, it's bad because it isn't faithful to the comics.

I think direct adaptations can help structure a movie, especially with less experienced creators, but if you have a strong creator like Gunn I think it is less of a concern.

Yeah! I agree with this.

[Pinsir]

You know, now that I think of it, there aren't that many MCU films I like that are really faithful to the comics

> GotG Trilogy: Basically fan fiction from what I've been told. The creator of Mantis even came out and said that character in the movie bared no semblance to the character he created.
> Thor 1: Uh, maybe? I can't remember...
> Thor 3: The Executioner's final scene is definitely inspired by the comics as are the elements pulled from World War Hulk, but the overall structure of the story and the twists are different
> Cap 1: Uh, maybe?
> Cap 2: Obviously the Winter Soldier part is, but the 'Shield is actually evil' plot is unique to this story, right?
> Iron Man 1 & 3: I think they are mostly original too (le Mandarin is a fake out)
> Avengers 1: Loki is the original villain that united the Avengers in the comics, he even brainwashes Hulk in that story too. This is probably the most faithful adaptation

So 3/10 or 4/10 I think

[Robotman]

Wasn’t Thanos’ whole character motivation very different than his comic book counterpart? Comic book Thanos was just obsessed with the literal personification of death and wanted to kill half the universe to turn her on, while the movie version was kind of a cosmic Ra’s al Ghul.

[Morgoth]

MCU Thanos and comicbook Thanos are literally completely different characters. Just like, for example, Ledger and Phoenix iconic performances of The Joker differ drastically from comicbooks.
It's just how it works, you won't find lots of people in Hollywood, who would want to make strict page to page adaptation.

[Primal Slayer]

> Shazam and Aquaman are the most faithful adaptations of a comic book storyline probably ever
> Batman killed people in almost every adaptation, including the Nolan films
> The Cassandra Cain thing is a pet gripe. You can have have a pet gripe, but you shouldn't convince yourself that this is a broader grievance shared by society. Like, has Cassandra Cain ever appeared in a tv show?

If you want to argue why the DCEU failed, there is an easy answer; they were made too late. We only started to get movies consistently in the DCEU in 2016 with BvS and Suicide Squad. That means they got only three years until 2020 and Covid changed everything, leading to 2023 being the year when both the MCU and DCEU died.

I said Batman SHOOTING people. That's a big difference from killing in fights.

Cain baring zero resemblance to her comic counterpart didn't help the film and is seen as a rip off.

DCEU didn't fail because it started to late. It failed because it was poorly conceived. BvS wasn't liked by critics or general audience. It was front loaded and failed afterwards. Every director ignored parts of what Snyder tried to establish. Patty wanted to undo his version of WW. Wan ignored his interpretation of Atlantis. There's a reason why its being rebooted and soft rebooted countless times.

[manwhohaseverything]

I said Batman SHOOTING people. That's a big difference from killing in fights.

Ahem!!!

[Primal Slayer]

Ahem!!!

[Frontier]

This reminds me of the final episode of Brave and the Bold where Ambush Bug makes Batman realize things are wrong by reminding him he would never use guns.

[manwhohaseverything]

This reminds me of the final episode of Brave and the Bold where Ambush Bug makes Batman realize things are wrong by reminding him he would never use guns.

I love ambush bug.

[Pinsir]

I said Batman SHOOTING people. That's a big difference from killing in fights.

He shoots people in the Nolan movies, both his bike and flying machine have guns on them. Also, I'm not sure if you are talking about the dream sequence in BvS, which, is a dream sequence.

Cain baring zero resemblance to her comic counterpart didn't help the film and is seen as a rip off.

The general movie audience does not care.

Every director ignored parts of what Snyder tried to establish. Patty wanted to undo his version of WW. Wan ignored his interpretation of Atlantis. There's a reason why its being rebooted and soft rebooted countless times.

This just isn't true, Zack Snyder helped Patty Jenkins make WW and James Wann said the Atlantis depicted in Justice League is just an outpost and that Snyder wanted him to expand upon civilization proper. People are so weird when they talk about Zack Snyder, like if you don't like his work fine, but when people don't like his work and then try to justify it by saying he's a bad person...You're messing with peoples lives.

DCEU didn't fail because it started to late. It failed because it was poorly conceived. BvS wasn't liked by critics or general audience. It was front loaded and failed afterwards.

You consistently cite BvS second week drop off (69%) as proof of it being a failure, but Captain American Civil War had 74% drop from its second weekend that never gets talked about. Can I use this to argue that it was bad movie now? That it is scientifically a worse movie than BvS?

Your reasoning also doesn't explain why Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were successes and guess what, all of their sequels were released during Covid or in the post-Covid environment. If they were made earlier, they probably would have done better.

You also didn't address the collapse of the MCU and even a bunch of other franchises, at the same time.

[Primal Slayer]

He shoots people in the Nolan movies, both his bike and flying machine have guns on them. Also, I'm not sure if you are talking about the dream sequence in BvS, which, is a dream sequence.



The general movie audience does not care.



This just isn't true, Zack Snyder helped Patty Jenkins make WW and James Wann said the Atlantis depicted in Justice League is just an outpost and that Snyder wanted him to expand upon civilization proper. People are so weird when they talk about Zack Snyder, like if you don't like his work fine, but when people don't like his work and then try to justify it by saying he's a bad person...You're messing with peoples lives.



You consistently cite BvS second week drop off (69%) as proof of it being a failure, but Captain American Civil War had 74% drop from its second weekend that never gets talked about. Can I use this to argue that it was bad movie now? That it is scientifically a worse movie than BvS?

Your reasoning also doesn't explain why Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were successes and guess what, all of their sequels were released during Covid or in the post-Covid environment. If they were made earlier, they probably would have done better.

You also didn't address the collapse of the MCU and even a bunch of other franchises, at the same time.

Patty stated she wasn't anout WW being doom and gloom and went out of her way to ignore the whole "she stopped helping mans world"

Wan ignored what Snyder had in JL. They weren't British. It wasn't murky. They don't use air bubbles in AQ. Meras parents are dead in JL, alive in AQ
.

PLEASE QUOTE ME where i said he was a bad person. I'll wait.

You're seriously comparing Batman. And Superman. To Captain America? Lol. Cap was a c-list player. Never had a movie before. B/S a-list players. Their movie couldn't crack a billion and was reviewed so badly that even Ben looked miserable promoting it. Aquaman beat BvS at the box office lol. So go ahead and use that argument if you want.

I never said every single film in the DCEU failed at the box office. None of their sequels post covid made whst most marvel films made or what Batman made.

I don't need to address where the MCU is today because guess what? It took over 10 years for them to see a small collapse and over 30 films. DCEU had how many?

MCU total box office: 29 billion
DCEU total box office: 6 billion.

But if you want to see my thoughts on the MCU you're more than free to go to the MCU thread. I just commented on it 1-2 days ago so easy to find

[Pinsir]

Patty stated she wasn't anout WW being doom and gloom and went out of her way to ignore the whole "she stopped helping mans world"

And Zach Snyder helped. He's credited with helping formulate the story.

Wan ignored what Snyder had in JL. They weren't British. It wasn't murky. They don't use air bubbles in AQ. Meras parents are dead in JL, alive in AQ.

This doesn't mean anything.

PLEASE QUOTE ME where i said he was a bad person. I'll wait.

You are framing Zach Snyder's relationship with his fellow creators as needlessly antagonistic. There exist tons of inconsistencies in franchises that have shared universes, different interpretations and continuity errors, that doesn't mean the one creator is dismissing another.

You're seriously comparing Batman. And Superman. To Captain America? Lol. Cap was a c-list player. Never had a movie before. B/S a-list players. Their movie couldn't crack a billion and was reviewed so badly that even Ben looked miserable promoting it. Aquaman beat BvS at the box office lol. So go ahead and use that argument if you want.

You just straight up are not addressing my point. Does Civil War having a 74% second week drop mean that its a bad movie that the fans turned against? According to your reasoning, you have to say yes. I'm not the one making the claim that the box office is representation of quality or fan reception. Fun fact, Aquaman made a billion dollar film before Spiderman, does that mean he's a more popular character? No.

I never said every single film in the DCEU failed at the box office. None of their sequels post covid made whst most marvel films made or what Batman made.

Yes, because Covid changed viewership patterns and superhero fatigue. The bottom fell out on DC films first, in part because fans were told a reboot was in the works, but for MCU the fanbase was still willing to see their films until very recently.

I don't need to address where the MCU is today because guess what? It took over 10 years for them to see a small collapse and over 30 films. DCEU had how many?

MCU total box office: 29 billion
DCEU total box office: 6 billion.

The MCU was consistently making movies since 2008, by the time BvS came out, it was competing against the third Captain America movie. Then four years later, the market collapsed in 2020.

Like, do you really think that it is a coincidence that The Marvels and Blue Beetle are the worst performing movies in their respective universes? It's because they both hit the same wall, just the MCU was driving much longer before it did.

[Laser_Man]

To be fair, the biggest proof of public rejecting BvS was that it became a joke immediately after it was released.

[Refrax5]

You know, now that I think of it, there aren't that many MCU films I like that are really faithful to the comics

> GotG Trilogy: Basically fan fiction from what I've been told. The creator of Mantis even came out and said that character in the movie bared no semblance to the character he created.
> Thor 1: Uh, maybe? I can't remember...
> Thor 3: The Executioner's final scene is definitely inspired by the comics as are the elements pulled from World War Hulk, but the overall structure of the story and the twists are different
> Cap 1: Uh, maybe?
> Cap 2: Obviously the Winter Soldier part is, but the 'Shield is actually evil' plot is unique to this story, right?
> Iron Man 1 & 3: I think they are mostly original too (le Mandarin is a fake out)
> Avengers 1: Loki is the original villain that united the Avengers in the comics, he even brainwashes Hulk in that story too. This is probably the most faithful adaptation

So 3/10 or 4/10 I think

Like I said, for me it's more about the characters and if they still retain their basic traits that make them who they are. Storytelling in a movie format and storytelling in a comic format are such different animals that I think expecting those things to line up exactly is sort of pointless. I don't think anybody wants a Justice League movie that's an exact translation of their first appearance.

Gunn's stuff mostly just feels like a guy doing original stories and characters with an IP skin over them so he can have a bigger budget and platform. It's not to say those movies can't be enjoyable, but it feels uninteresting to me as a comic fan because his stuff has little to do with the actual characters I care about. I'm not sure why any Vigilante fan would care about watching Peacemaker when the only thing that version of the character has in common with Adrian Chase is a name and costume. It just seems pointless to me to take these characters and stories and alter them to such an extent they have nothing to do with their source material. Aside from the obvious lack of respect for the characters and creators that made them, it just feels like you might as well just make your own characters and stories at that point.

I may be in the minority, but I also don't find Gunn to be that strong of a creative. I enjoyed GOTG when it came out, but everything since feels like the same thing over and over with the lovable misfits, Kevin Smith-meets-Joss Whedon humor, the cutesy CGI mascots, the resurrected old top 40 hits soundtrack, etc. His stuff just got old for me pretty quick.

Again, I feel like the best superhero adaptations strike a balance between keeping the spirit of the comic characters and adapting it into a movie that appeals to general audiences. I don't think it should be an either/or approach.

[Beantownbrown]

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