DCU Movies

[Confuzzled]

This is the twitter headcanon ever since Anna Diop became Starfire in the Titans show.
George Perez was inspired by a ton of women when he created Starfire, including his wife, but none of them were black.

We can read his on words in the reddit thread bellow.



I don't really care if the actress will be black or white, as long as she is beautiful.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...d_starfire_on/

Interesting. I can see the Iris Chacon influence which explains why some people wanted a Latina Starfire.

Some very vocal people on social media I noticed are arguing Raven should be brown because she is ‘Indian’????

Azarathians had some Indian themes to their garb, but they were from everywhere including Gotham. They certainly weren’t defined by a skin color.

Okay but to be fair, the larger part of the same interview that Draco posted had Perez saying Raven was originally based on Persis Khambatta, the Indian actress in the 1979 Star Trek movie.

[Holt]

The meltdowns over an Indian Raven would be incredible. I’m all for it.

[James Cameron]

As Morbius showed listening to twitter is the peak of foolishness. Social media represents nobody, while ironically people on it pretend to represent and speak for everybody. It's farcical.

I think it's easy to say that if you don't personally use social media. I don't use twitter anymore but I think the "peak of foolishness" would be to ignore that a significant amount of people use it, and while the discourse might be meaningless a lot of the time, the sheer number of people there engaging with different topics is a valuable metric to consider. The Morbius thing was just Sony being a tone deaf corporation which is par for the course.

[jmc247]

Interesting. I can see the Iris Chacon influence which explains why some people wanted a Latina Starfire.

Okay but to be fair, the larger part of the same interview that Draco posted had Perez saying Raven was originally based on Persis Khambatta, the Indian actress in the 1979 Star Trek movie.

That actress looked quite good in Star Trek.



I would have had no problem with such an actress playing Raven, but that isn’t what the people on Twitter want I suspect.

[Drako]

I think it's easy to say that if you don't personally use social media. I don't use twitter anymore but I think the "peak of foolishness" would be to ignore that a significant amount of people use it, and while the discourse might be meaningless a lot of the time, the sheer number of people there engaging with different topics is a valuable metric to consider. The Morbius thing was just Sony being a tone deaf corporation which is par for the course.

Twitter is not even in the top 10 of the most used social media platforms in the world anymore, and the intersection of people who use Twitter and engage about comic books is even smaller.

[Holt]

I think it's easy to say that if you don't personally use social media. I don't use twitter anymore but I think the "peak of foolishness" would be to ignore that a significant amount of people use it, and while the discourse might be meaningless a lot of the time, the sheer number of people there engaging with different topics is a valuable metric to consider. The Morbius thing was just Sony being a tone deaf corporation which is par for the course.

The Morbius thing was also a deliberate act of trolling, not a case of there being a small minority genuinely excited for Morbius. It was a case of the old men who run studios not understanding how memes work.

[Laser_Man]

Like I said, whatever Gunn's personal tastes are, I'm sure he's not going to do a "grimdark" Superman because he's not a fool and he knows how divisive Snyder's take was. If anything, I worry it'll be an overcorrection and we're going to get a very saccharine, overly soft and sentimental Superman.

I don't think Gunn has a deep love of Superman or any particular reverence for the source material, but I also don't think he's an idiot who's going to repeat Snyder's mistakes in such an obvious way. He's in charge of DC Studios now, so he's got a lot more skin in the game than when he was making TSS.

I obviously have my misgivings about Gunn, but nothing he's said about his Superman movie gives the slightest inkling its going to be dark and edgy. Quite the opposite.

I think people on internet exaggerate the role played by "gritty" and "dark" nature as the reason behind DCEU flopping. The far bigger reason was the memeable things like the infamous Martha scene and Luthor being a weirdo. Or them dumping 50 different plot threads in BvS without any setup.

DC being all dark actually worked out in their favor because it gave them a distinct identity and a dedicated fanbase of people who thought they were somehow smarter for liking edgy movies instead of MCU comedies.

Because of Batman and Joker being the two biggest brands in DC, people have a wrong perception that DC has always been about dark gritty stories. The most popular Superman from last 20 years is Injustice Superman (not counting MoS which is also dark). Wonder Woman is often thought of as a female Kratos. Suicide Squad and Constantine are among the rising brands for DC.

Superman does not have a dedicated fanbase like Batman has. He can be molded in any way and general public will accept if its good. Only a handful of comic fan (like me and others here) will complain if Superman is dark, otherwise kids today have no real connection to Superman as a character.

I hate to say it, but going full dark and gritty is a safer bet for DC than trying to be a lighthearted comedies like MCU.

[James Cameron]

Twitter is not even in the top 10 of the most used social media platforms in the world anymore, and the intersection of people who use Twitter and engage about comic books is even smaller.

Smaller than one community doesn't make it a small community. Like I said, it's large enough that it's worth paying some attention to, but of course not to the level of acting like all the primary discourse occurs on that site.

[James Cameron]

I think people on internet exaggerate the role played by "gritty" and "dark" nature as the reason behind DCEU flopping. The far bigger reason was the memeable things like the infamous Martha scene and Luthor being a weirdo. Or them dumping 50 different plot threads in BvS without any setup.

DC being all dark actually worked out in their favor because it gave them a distinct identity and a dedicated fanbase of people who thought they were somehow smarter for liking edgy movies instead of MCU comedies.

Because of Batman and Joker being the two biggest brands in DC, people have a wrong perception that DC has always been about dark gritty stories. The most popular Superman from last 20 years is Injustice Superman (not counting MoS which is also dark). Wonder Woman is often thought of as a female Kratos. Suicide Squad and Constantine are among the rising brands for DC.

Superman does not have a dedicated fanbase like Batman has. He can be molded in any way and general public will accept if its good. Only a handful of comic fan (like me and others here) will complain if Superman is dark, otherwise kids today have no real connection to Superman as a character.

I hate to say it, but going full dark and gritty is a safer bet for DC than trying to be a lighthearted comedies like MCU.

The DCEU flopped because of studio meddling and interference.

And I disagree that kids today don't have a connection with Superman. You'd be surprised.

[jmc247]

The DCEU flopped because of studio meddling and interference.

And I disagree that kids today don't have a connection with Superman. You'd be surprised.

Exactly. Aquaman 2 should have easily been an 800+ million dollar film, but it very clearly suffered from horribly weak promotion and was undermined by removing much of the female leads role on the cutting room floor.

It needs to be said audiences are tired out of the MCU formula right now.

DC made a few big casting mistakes like the one for Flash and Lex, but the tone was something that made it feel different from the bulk of the super hero content they are getting.

[Johnny]

I think it's easy to say that if you don't personally use social media. I don't use twitter anymore but I think the "peak of foolishness" would be to ignore that a significant amount of people use it, and while the discourse might be meaningless a lot of the time, the sheer number of people there engaging with different topics is a valuable metric to consider. The Morbius thing was just Sony being a tone deaf corporation which is par for the course.

It's not about how many use it, it's about studios choosing to invest millions of dollars on something based on the fact that it's trending on social media seems like a rather questionable thing to do. But it's their money, they can piss it away as much as they like I guess.

[Holt]

The lesson to be taken shouldn’t be that everything needs to be dark or that everything needs to be fun and lighthearted. Dark and bleak tone works great for Batman and Joker. Superman not so much. A major part of the Batman and Superman dynamic should be how different they are.

[Laser_Man]

The DCEU flopped because of studio meddling and interference.

And I disagree that kids today don't have a connection with Superman. You'd be surprised.

I don't know, man. I am in my 20s and I have grown up hearing how Superman is lame and he is only interesting when he is either evil or being used as a means to prop up Batman.

You see people of all ages and nationalities saying they love Batman and Spider-Man, meanwhile Superman fans are like a super specific section of people: Americans in the 40-60 age range who grew up reading Silver/Bronze Age Superman.

I see more fans of Henry Cavill than I see of Superman, and even Cavill's take only became popular in the aftermath of the Snydercut hysteria and Cavill's fame after the MI movie. It wasn't popular when he was playing the character.

Even DCAU, which people claim to be the definitive Superman from their childhood, did 3 separate evil versions of him and left no opportunity to show him as inferior to Batman in every way.

Superman is recognizable but he doesn't have a real fandom to speak of. Superman content might do decently on the basis of word of mouth if it is exceptionally good but the Superman brand alone does not get people interested.

[jmc247]

The real question here gets to the tone of a Teen Titans movie.

Do you try to go full New Teen Titans level dark and gritty or not? I think you should, but social media would not take well to it. Many concepts and themes don’t play that well today.

I would say it should be darker then what the DCAMU did with them, but along the same lines. Very dark with some characters not so much for others.

[Primal Slayer]

I always find it weird how people take umbrage at a black person playing Starfire, as if an orange-skinned alien woman has to be played by a white person. She's an orange-skinned alien. She has no race or ethnicity that exists on Earth. She's not white or black or anything else (although coded black, as you said). Any woman of any race could conceivably play her.

The people complaining are just dumb people who see white as the default for everything.

The argument is more that she should be black.

I don't care who they cast as long as they're good, embody Starfire, and are made up as a golden alien with big/long red hair.

If they turn her into an ordinary looking human....i don't want it