DCU Movies

[Stick Figure]

I saw Ant Man & mostly enjoyed it but I checked the time quite a few times. Both DC & Marvel need to come with something better than the standard CGI battle at the end of the movie. I completely zoned out. Just seen it too many times. I’m sitting right now trying to remember the ending of Ant Man & I’m struggling.

[phonogram12]

It's not the animation style that is at issue; it's the characterization of the characters that is at issue. Do we go for a classic interpretation, or a modern one? That will make or break any animation series, IMO.

I really don't see a "classic" one working. I think a lot of comic book readers forget they are often not the target audience for anything outside of the actual comics.

I saw Ant Man & mostly enjoyed it but I checked the time quite a few times. Both DC & Marvel need to come with something better than the standard CGI battle at the end of the movie. I completely zoned out. Just seen it too many times. I’m sitting right now trying to remember the ending of Ant Man & I’m struggling.

I agree. I think it really depends on the character as well. While I enjoyed the movie tremendously overall, I was kind of tired of the whole "giant sky ship falling from the sky" bit in the Winter Soldier, where I think they could've done something much better, IMHO. IMHO, the ending action sequence wasn't anywhere near as good as that fight on the highway/street between Bucky and Hydra and Steve, Nat, and Falcon.

[Confuzzled]

Many reviewers bashed Quantumania solely because they felt an Ant-Man film shouldn't have such a big scope and high stakes...

...which is a corner the MCU painted the character into in the previous films by having Lang be street-level. Whereas in the comics, Hank and Janet were always in the big leagues (no pun).

[Confuzzled]

Not sure if the average Joe knows or cares much about the future plans Gunn has announced?

In the grand Venn Diagram scheme of things, I don't see the intersection between the people interested in a Shazam film and the people who are completely unaware of Gunn's plans being sizable.

[Johnny]

Many reviewers bashed Quantumania solely because they felt an Ant-Man film shouldn't have such a big scope and high stakes...

...which is a corner the MCU painted the character into in the previous films by having Lang be street-level. Whereas in the comics, Hank and Janet were always in the big leagues (no pun).

Yet another reason to wonder why they didn't make Hank and Janet founding Avengers. They could still have Clint and Nat there.

[Mantis-Ray]

Yet another reason to wonder why they didn't make Hank and Janet founding Avengers. They could still have Clint and Nat there.

As I recall Hank and Janet were not included in Avengers due to the development mess from Ant-Man.

I'm not sure all the details but the film was in development for so long they had to kick out the original director and bring in a new guy.

And due to the film's story promoting Scott as the MC, they essentially locked our Hank and Janet from ever being superheroes due to writing them as old people. Janet especially since the first film has her totally MIA.

It's why Hope is a thing, she's supposed to be Scott's "Wasp" cause they already wrote out the actual Wasp from ever being a thing.

[Johnny]

Making characters with so much history in the Marvel Universe old in order to make sure they won't steal the spotlight from others who won't even have their mantles without them is an appalling tactic. The irony of course being that Paul Rudd is 53 and Evangeline Lilly is 43. That said I like MCU Scott Lang, but Hank Pym needed that spotlight more than him. The character has been painted in a negative light for far too long and now he'll always remain that way.

[Confuzzled]

Making characters with so much history in the Marvel Universe old in order to make sure they won't steal the spotlight from others who won't even have their mantles without them is an appalling tactic. The irony of course being that Paul Rudd is 53 and Evangeline Lilly is 43. That said I like MCU Scott Lang, but Hank Pym needed that spotlight more than him. The character has been painted in a negative light for far too long and now he'll always remain that way.

The What If? show even leaned into that aspect TWICE.

Kind of a bummer as Jan and Hank were doing so well with the Earth's Mightiest Heroes show and then MCU and Edgar Wright had to completely derail their momentum... for a film they couldn't even bother working on together.

[Johnny]

The sheer amount of damage these adaptations can do to characters even by excluding them or changing them is almost hard to believe at times. They can be around as prominent characters for decades and decades but one movie or TV show can change or in many cases create the public perception of them that is nothing like the way they've been portrayed for all those years. It's a damn shame.

[Mantis-Ray]

The hilarious thing is Hope Pym who is an OC created to replace Janet and be Scott's partner, became irrelevant once Cassie became old enough to become a superhero.

You can see in Ant-Man 3 since the film's emotional focus was Scott and Cassie's relationship, so Hope literally had nothing to do in the film's story aside from being an extra body for fight scenes.

Showcases how OC characters can really become the odd man (woman) out when the setting starts adapting more material. Hell the Doctor Strange movies had to have Strange get over Christine so they can bring in Clea his actual wife from the comics.

[Frontier]

I saw Ant Man & mostly enjoyed it but I checked the time quite a few times. Both DC & Marvel need to come with something better than the standard CGI battle at the end of the movie. I completely zoned out. Just seen it too many times. I’m sitting right now trying to remember the ending of Ant Man & I’m struggling.

Shang-Chi did not need a giant Kaiju fight.

I really don't see a "classic" one working. I think a lot of comic book readers forget they are often not the target audience for anything outside of the actual comics.

I don't really see anything in the classic Shazam iteration that wouldn't work for a modern audience, especially if we're talking animation because that take is more prevalent there than the New 52 take they went with in the movies.

I agree. I think it really depends on the character as well. While I enjoyed the movie tremendously overall, I was kind of tired of the whole "giant sky ship falling from the sky" bit in the Winter Soldier, where I think they could've done something much better, IMHO. IMHO, the ending action sequence wasn't anywhere near as good as that fight on the highway/street between Bucky and Hydra and Steve, Nat, and Falcon.

I liked the final fight between Cap and the Winter Soldier.

As I recall Hank and Janet were not included in Avengers due to the development mess from Ant-Man.

I'm not sure all the details but the film was in development for so long they had to kick out the original director and bring in a new guy.

And due to the film's story promoting Scott as the MC, they essentially locked our Hank and Janet from ever being superheroes due to writing them as old people. Janet especially since the first film has her totally MIA.

It's why Hope is a thing, she's supposed to be Scott's "Wasp" cause they already wrote out the actual Wasp from ever being a thing.

For what it's worth, things ended up working out for Hank because he was either going to be the villain or die in Wrights' pitch for the movie, and Janet wouldn't have even been in it I believe.

The hilarious thing is Hope Pym who is an OC created to replace Janet and be Scott's partner, became irrelevant once Cassie became old enough to become a superhero.

You can see in Ant-Man 3 since the film's emotional focus was Scott and Cassie's relationship, so Hope literally had nothing to do in the film's story aside from being an extra body for fight scenes.

Showcases how OC characters can really become the odd man (woman) out when the setting starts adapting more material. Hell the Doctor Strange movies had to have Strange get over Christine so they can bring in Clea his actual wife from the comics.

Granted, Christine is actually a character in the comics, just nowhere near as associated with Strange as she is in the MCU. Almost like MCU Peggy Carter versus comic Peggy Carter.

And now we've got the Shazam Family fighting basically OC public domain characters whose only relevance is if you're fans of the actresses.

[phonogram12]

I don't really see anything in the classic Shazam iteration that wouldn't work for a modern audience, especially if we're talking animation because that take is more prevalent there than the New 52 take they went with in the movies.

I feel the movie took the necessary bones of the character and his world and updated the rest accordingly. Anything more faithful to the "classic" iteration I feel would've been too dated for today's viewers.

I liked the final fight between Cap and the Winter Soldier.

I found the three helicarriers falling out of the sky excessive to the point of being distracting, personally. The fight choreography was leaps and bound better than anything previously seen in the MCU and I just found it was rather undercut with the needless spectacle.

[Ascended]

As I recall Hank and Janet were not included in Avengers due to the development mess from Ant-Man.

That sounds right. I think I also read somewhere that the Studio still wasn't sure how much ridiculousness the audience would accept, and heroes who shrink were seen as a gamble.

This was back when there was still talk about whether Thor could fit into a world if iron men and super soldiers, before films like Guardians of the Galaxy proved that audiences would accept the most ridiculous concepts as long as they could laugh with it.

The thing about Ant 3's criticism coming from folks who think they should remain street level seems kinda silly when you consider Endgame. Scott is crucial to the story and its time travel element, a whole Act is dedicated to a Ant-Man style heist, and he gets several moments that show him as quite powerful and capable. I get that the first two Ant films were fairly street level, kinda, but that'd be a regression now.

In the grand Venn Diagram scheme of things, I don't see the intersection between the people interested in a Shazam film and the people who are completely unaware of Gunn's plans being sizable.

Fair point, but the majority of the movie-going audience is still made up of casuals. You may be right that the majority of people interested in Shazam would likely have heard something about Gunn's reboot, but would they care, would they have bothered reading the relevant article/s in their news feed? You may be right, but I think of an old boss of mine who always took his family to see the Marvel movies, but they were still disconnected enough to not catch many announcements about them. They'd find out a movie was coming when the trailers hit tv, and wouldn't know more about the film than they'd hear from the actors doing the late night interview circuits. Folk like them have probably heard about Gunn's reboot, but I don't think it'd stop them from seeing a movie that looked fun. But I have no idea, maybe Gunn's having a bigger impact than I give casual viewers credit for....but I'm still inclined to think the historically poor performance of the DCEU is a bigger factor than half-rumor plans that are still years away.

[Frontier]

I feel the movie took the necessary bones of the character and his world and updated the rest accordingly. Anything more faithful to the "classic" iteration I feel would've been too dated for today's viewers.

It's been done before though. Even Post-Crisis. Or in those Jeff Smith graphic novels.

Or like that DC Showcase short where he and Superman fought Black Adam.

I just don't see anything that dated about it unless you're part of the school of thought that prefer the New 52 take on Billy to how he was previously characterized.

I found the three helicarriers falling out of the sky excessive to the point of being distracting, personally. The fight choreography was leaps and bound better than anything previously seen in the MCU and I just found it was rather undercut with the needless spectacle.

I was more focused on the stuff between Steve and Bucky that I almost forgot about it .

[phonogram12]

It's been done before though. Even Post-Crisis. Or in those Jeff Smith graphic novels.

That Jeff Smith mini is one of my favorites, but I have a hard time seeing the general public investing as much in that style of storytelling as seasoned comic book fans (especially teenagers).

Or like that DC Showcase short where he and Superman fought Black Adam.

That was decent, although from what I remember, they really didn't elaborate that much on their backstory (which was probably for the best considering the runtime they had and that Superman was the co-headliner).

I just don't see anything that dated about it unless you're part of the school of thought that prefer the New 52 take on Billy to how he was previously characterized.

Not particularly, but at the same time, I don't think a straight up adaptation of the CC Beck stuff translates well to the general public. Like I said, I was surprised by just how well the movie did it.

I was more focused on the stuff between Steve and Bucky that I almost forgot about it .

As great as WS was (and it was), forgetting about the falling sky ships makes it infinitely better.