DCU Movies

[Mantis-Ray]

If anything, I think the existence of groups like The Authority makes the government/public distrust of superheroes more believable.

I mean regardless of the Authority's brutality, it doesn't justify the government deciding to kidnap and imprison superhero's without any sort of due process or idea when they get out.

One of the most infamous cases in New Frontier is their attempted capture of Flash who made very public rescues of people but they still wanted to imprison.

Really the Authority forming would be a justified response against the government acting like fucking dictators.

[Zagre]

I mean regardless of the Authority's brutality, it doesn't justify the government deciding to kidnap and imprison superhero's without any sort of due process or idea when they get out.

One of the most infamous cases in New Frontier is their attempted capture of Flash who made very public rescues of people but they still wanted to imprison.

Really the Authority forming would be a justified response against the government acting like fucking dictators.

I'm not jsutifying it in any way, I'm just saying it makes more logistical sense (from a storytelling perspective, not a real world one) for the public to be scared of the superheroes' brutality when the superheroes are scary and brutal. As you said, they could very well play it in reverse and have The Authority be a response to the government's brutality, but given the somewhat middle-of-the-road approach these things take I think it's more likely they'll go the route of "people like The Authority give superheroes a bad name --> the government uses the public's fear to act like monsters with impunity --> Superman and Batman decide the world needs a Justice League to show the people there's nothign to fear".

I like The New Frontier, but even that story was somewhat toothless in its approach, let's remember that the message of that story is that superheroes and the government were both somewhat bad and had to learn to work together (even though in there the government was a million times worse).

[StarSpangledMan]

Hmm...

[Mantis-Ray]

I'm not jsutifying it in any way, I'm just saying it makes more logistical sense (from a storytelling perspective, not a real world one) for the public to be scared of the superheroes' brutality when the superheroes are scary and brutal. As you said, they could very well play it in reverse and have The Authority be a response to the government's brutality, but given the somewhat middle-of-the-road approach these things take I think it's more likely they'll go the route of "people like The Authority give superheroes a bad name --> the government uses the public's fear to act like monsters with impunity --> Superman and Batman decide the world needs a Justice League to show the people there's nothign to fear".

I like The New Frontier, but even that story was somewhat toothless in its approach, let's remember that the message of that story is that superheroes and the government were both somewhat bad and had to learn to work together (even though in there the government was a million times worse).

It is interesting to think about.

Hell its not like Gunn is unfamiliar with the government is evil plots. That was basically the main conflict of his Suicide Squad film, US government doing some evil, evil **** and Peacemaker ended on Waller's daughter pulling a whistleblower on her.

So presumably he has some interesting ideas if he winds up using The New Frontier along with the Authority, at least I hope so being optimistic about it.

[bat39]

It is interesting to think about.

Hell its not like Gunn is unfamiliar with the government is evil plots. That was basically the main conflict of his Suicide Squad film, US government doing some evil, evil **** and Peacemaker ended on Waller's daughter pulling a whistleblower on her.

So presumably he has some interesting ideas if he winds up using The New Frontier along with the Authority, at least I hope so being optimistic about it.

Its funny. The 50's were the era of McCarthyism, where the public (well, barring minorities and the disenfranchised) by and large trusted the government to protect them from the villains (Communists and, in the context of New Frontier, the newly-emergent superheroes). Today we're in an era where the public doesn't trust the government but also doesn't trust each other! I think a lot of the ideas and themes from that story could play out pretty well in the 2020's, albeit in different ways.

Superman being a 'Boy Scout' and the government's poster boy wouldn't necessarily win him universal adulation from 'mainstream' society in 2023 - rather it would split public opinion and make him a polarizing figure (perhaps even more polarizing than if he's viewed as a free agent and vigilante ala BvS). Wonder Woman probably wouldn't be a 'rogue' hero but someone whose radical feminist agenda a sizable portion of the US population would support. And honestly, I think the government might be less interested in protecting the public from superhumans, and more interested in figuring out how to weaponize superhumans against their political opponents (think Amanda Waller instead of Faraday).

[Ascended]

I think the Authority could probably fit fairly well into a New Frontier style dynamic, as a response to the crap the government pulls.

It's no so far removed, tonally and thematically, from the stuff DC already has with the Squad. It's just taking things to the obvious next level; if the government is going to kidnap and weaponize superhumans, then superhumans team up to protect themselves from government and tear down the systems that're abusing their power. And with New Frontier, it's not just criminals being used anymore, the government is trying to kidnap vigilantes who have only helped folks, so the escalation is already in play.

Fits together just fine. Usually with this stuff I wonder if DC can pull it off, because their universe is a moral/ethical binary that doesn't support stuff like Authority very easily. But if Authority is among the first DCU films, and if it's building on the Squad stuff (the only semi-major IP to deal with these shades of gray at the company) then it might work as part of the underlying narrative foundation in a way the comics just can't manage. I'm down, let Gunn try it!

As far as Superman and his actions in New Frontier go....it's a concern for me, but only because DC has so often missed the point in that kind of situation. Clark wasn't a "yes man" in New Frontier, he was fighting the monster from the inside, playing the long game and keeping an eye on stuff nobody would know about otherwise. Superman was a spy and double agent, and that's just cool as hell. But Miller's DKR did the same thing, and all anyone (including DC) remembers is that Clark answered to Reagan. Not that Clark was spying on the government in an effort to keep them in line, just that he did what he was told. New Frontier isn't far off from that, and if Gunn is headed towards that story then I hope he, at least, recognized what Clark was actually doing.

Not *too* worried about Gunn making Clark an establishment man. I don't think he'd be writing (and likely directing) the Legacy movie if that was the direction. Gunn doesn't seem to like that kind of archetype, he's friends with Grant Morrison....I don't think we have much to be worried about on this front. Gunn's Superman will almost certainly be a rebel with a cause, the way the character is meant to be, and *if* the DCU does go into the "Clark spies on government" stuff, I don't expect that to be lost to the point where Clark just looks like a tool. But we'll see in two years.

[Username taken]

I really do wonder how the DCU movie universe will handle the Authority.

The team was formed out of what was left of Stormwatch (the original team was set-up by the UN) and replaced them as Earth’s main protectors when there were none at the time. They were basically the Avengers/JL/Ultimates of the Wildstorm universe particularly after Wildstorm had left Image and pulled out of the shared universe. Millar’s run turned them into reluctant celebrities and made them much more proactive on Earth while also performing humanitarian acts like taking in refugees( before the world governments took them down hard).

I wonder what the starting point of the team will be because it simply can’t follow what happened in the comics. I can’t imagine the movie storylines even coming close to what the comics touched upon without outraging certain folks.

[Frontier]

I really hope we get a more well-rounded Amanda Waller in her show. I'm tired of practically a Supervillain Waller.

I think Superman could have been portrayed better but it’s supposed to be Silver Age Supes who was now being faced with a changing world and his straight laced 1950s world view needed to change/grow/adapt. He ended up taking his place as not just a flag waiving agent for the US government but a leader of the next generation of heroes.

If I recall correctly it wasn't also that Diana wasn't 100% right either, she was also just chafing under the restrictions by the government and feeling like she wasn't accomplishing anything.

If anything, I think the existence of groups like The Authority makes the government/public distrust of superheroes more believable.

I know that's something that happened in New Frontier but it's not something I really think of when I think of the DCU in general.

Not *too* worried about Gunn making Clark an establishment man. I don't think he'd be writing (and likely directing) the Legacy movie if that was the direction. Gunn doesn't seem to like that kind of archetype, he's friends with Grant Morrison....I don't think we have much to be worried about on this front. Gunn's Superman will almost certainly be a rebel with a cause, the way the character is meant to be, and *if* the DCU does go into the "Clark spies on government" stuff, I don't expect that to be lost to the point where Clark just looks like a tool. But we'll see in two years.

I don't really expect that from Gunn's Superman at least if we're expecting him to be like New 52 Superman considering what Gunn is empathizing but I definitely don't expect him to be a government stooge.

Gunn doesn't really do characters like Superman much but he seems to be trying for a very compassionate, caring, and likeable Superman.

[The World]

I
I don't really expect that from Gunn's Superman at least if we're expecting him to be like New 52 Superman considering what Gunn is empathizing but I definitely don't expect him to be a government stooge.

Gunn doesn't really do characters like Superman much but he seems to be trying for a very compassionate, caring, and likeable Superman.

The most caring, compassionate, likable Superman we ever got was the Siegel,Shuster one and he was very much a Rebel with a cause. Unless you're talking about the Byrne era Reaganite yuppie type going on tv shows and stuff trying to be a celebrity.

Tbh if you want to portray Superman as someone who is inspirational you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that he's going to be closer to a rebel than a guy who follows orders. It's literally all there in the Golden Age. People generally aren't inspired by people who follow orders unthinkingly.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'm not invested in this being a hard reboot or a soft reboot. I have no dog in this fight. I just think it's pretty obvious that they keep talking noncommittally about characters that are specifically appearing in films this year. Nothing he says about those four films is specific or concrete in any way. Again, the ending of the Flash is known by now and, unless they're lying about not changing the ending, it's going to directly contradict what they're doing. It's just common sense not to take those comments very seriously at this point.

Maybe they'll fold in Blue Beetle or keep Momoa as Aquaman, sure, but I wouldn't really count on that. I doubt they're keeping Gadot at this point and after Miller nearly sunk a 300 mil blockbuster, I doubt they'll be kept either.

Anything is possible, but Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 come after Flash, which he confirms "resets" the universe. And promotion for Blue Beetle has actually touted it as "the beginning," so it's at least implied that they are folding those guys in. It would be hella confusing if they were like "let's reboot after the event that was supposed to be the reset."

But again, we shall see...

[Ascended]

I wonder what the starting point of the team will be because it simply can’t follow what happened in the comics. I can’t imagine the movie storylines even coming close to what the comics touched upon without outraging certain folks.

I doubt the DCU is going to do a lot of direct adaptations anyway. Gunn seems to be the kind of guy who likes to take bits and pieces from a lot of sources and then tell an original story with them. There might be exceptions, stories worth adapting or writer/directors who're more comfortable with it, but I doubt it'll be the norm.

Doubt we're getting anything StormWatch/UN related, we're probably jumping right into the most obscene/best eras of Authority where they were throwing their weight around. Seems to me that if Waller is being retroactively kept as canon, then the stuff with the Squad and Peacemaker might be some of the first interactions the superhuman community have with world powers. So the Authority might form as a response to that.

It'd build out of what Gunn has already done with DC, and seems like a understandable kind of escalation. If governments are gonna put bombs in people's heads and force them to kill folks, then maybe the people need new governments.

I can’t imagine the movie storylines even coming close to what the comics touched upon without outraging certain folks.

Considering Gunn's Squad was about American imperialism, I don't think he cares too much about outraging certain folks.

I don't really expect that from Gunn's Superman at least if we're expecting him to be like New 52 Superman considering what Gunn is empathizing but I definitely don't expect him to be a government stooge.

Gunn doesn't really do characters like Superman much but he seems to be trying for a very compassionate, caring, and likeable Superman.

Who fits "caring and compassionate" more? The guy who re-builds an entire apartment building because he broke it in a fight, and builds it better than it was, or the guy who happily does favors for a government that puts bombs in people and forces them to kill folks?

Granted, the guy who rebuilds the apartments just increased their value and rent and unintentionally forced those people out of their new homes, while the other guy has the ear of POTUS and could successfully argue for rent control regulations....but we're talking about who's more likeable, not who's smarter.

I'm not expecting a full blown, t-shirt rebel Superman. I'd kill to get it, but I really don't think we will. But this is James Gunn, we're not getting the boy scout.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I really do wonder how the DCU movie universe will handle the Authority.

The team was formed out of what was left of Stormwatch (the original team was set-up by the UN) and replaced them as Earth’s main protectors when there were none at the time. They were basically the Avengers/JL/Ultimates of the Wildstorm universe particularly after Wildstorm had left Image and pulled out of the shared universe. Millar’s run turned them into reluctant celebrities and made them much more proactive on Earth while also performing humanitarian acts like taking in refugees( before the world governments took them down hard).

I wonder what the starting point of the team will be because it simply can’t follow what happened in the comics. I can’t imagine the movie storylines even coming close to what the comics touched upon without outraging certain folks.

I could see them skipping Stormwatch and heading straight to Authority. In the Ellis/Davis Hunt reboot, Jenny Sparks gathers them Nick Fury style so that could work here.

[j9ac9k]

I really hope we get a more well-rounded Amanda Waller in her show. I'm tired of practically a Supervillain Waller.

Agreed. As enjoyable as it was, "The Suicide Squad' didn't do much for her character. Giving her a daughter helped a little, but we barely got to scratch that surface. She did seem to have affection for her, so that might be an indicator for how Waller's show will go. Let's really see both sides to her. I think Waller works best when we agree with her objectives, it's just her methods that are questionable.

Also, people are talking about how The Authority will connect to Superman, but I'm just as interested to see how Waller and the Authority line up, or will interact. From how Gunn describes them, we already know pretty much how Superman and The Authority differ - that should be pretty clear. However, The Authority and The Wall seem very similar, so it'll be interesting to see where they conflict - will they align or will it be a case of "the room isn't big enough for them both?"

[Frontier]

I doubt the DCU is going to do a lot of direct adaptations anyway. Gunn seems to be the kind of guy who likes to take bits and pieces from a lot of sources and then tell an original story with them. There might be exceptions, stories worth adapting or writer/directors who're more comfortable with it, but I doubt it'll be the norm.

If you want comic-accurate costumes, that's probably a given, but characterization-wise...

Who fits "caring and compassionate" more? The guy who re-builds an entire apartment building because he broke it in a fight, and builds it better than it was, or the guy who happily does favors for a government that puts bombs in people and forces them to kill folks?

Granted, the guy who rebuilds the apartments just increased their value and rent and unintentionally forced those people out of their new homes, while the other guy has the ear of POTUS and could successfully argue for rent control regulations....but we're talking about who's more likeable, not who's smarter.

I'm not expecting a full blown, t-shirt rebel Superman. I'd kill to get it, but I really don't think we will. But this is James Gunn, we're not getting the boy scout.

Are we talking about Clark or Barry ?

But yeah, I don't expect him to be a government stooge. I think he is going to be a boy scout because it feels like Gunn has described him as such, though probably in a way Gunn finds likeable/compelling. I guess maybe like Rick Flag in TSS.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I rather get the Outsiders over the Authority. Wildstorm never clicked in the DCU to me so I rather they were seperate.

But maybe Gunn would change my mind.