DCU Movies

[Lightning Rider]

Be kind of funny if we get a reboot and we still get black Wally .

If by funny you mean a big slap in the face to Flash/Wally fans, sure. Hilarious!

[Confuzzled]

The gingercide people were not bothered about Nathan Fillion, famous non-redhead, being cast as redhead Guy Gardner. So they shouldn't be worried about Black Wally, right? RIGHT?

...oh yeah, forgot racism has no logic or rationale.

[Johnny]

When was the last time they cast a redhead as a redhead.

[Vordan]

When was the last time they cast a redhead as a redhead.

Skyler as Jimmy Olsen I think.

[Tomkatie]

I think part of the problem is Wallace and Wally have been codified as two separate characters now. So even if they cast a Black Wally who acts exactly like comic Wally and goes through a 1:1 adaptation of WML/Waid/Johns Wally, a subset of fans will still call him Wallace

[Leancarp900]

You know, I've kinda been wondering if when James Gunn posted this image in March of last year he wasn't just hinting at The Terrifics but at almost everybody on this image being on the DCU.



The only one who seems very unlikely here is Jon Kent. A lot of them are already confirmed. This was around the same time he was going around replying "5 of 10" when people showed him lists of characters showing up in the DCU.

[Primal Slayer]

When was the last time they cast a redhead as a redhead.

Most redheads im Hollywood are bottled anyway

[Refrax5]

The gingercide people were not bothered about Nathan Fillion, famous non-redhead, being cast as redhead Guy Gardner. So they shouldn't be worried about Black Wally, right? RIGHT?

...oh yeah, forgot racism has no logic or rationale.

Well, it's more that ginger Wally and black Wally are seperate characters in a very literal way at this point and, for reasons I can't explain, the red hair feels like it's a part of the character in a way it isn't for others. I'd feel just as weird to me if they cast someone with black hair as Wally. But the main point is that Wallace and Wally aren't the same person.

As for Fillion, I was under the impression that Gunn said he was giving Gardner the red bowl cut in the movie. I just assumed Fillion would be wearing a wig or something.

Not everything is racism. Some things are, but not everything. Considering how much people complained about a blond James Bond, sometimes it really is as simple as "I want this character to look like they usually do."

[Holt]

Just gonna drop this…





The gingercide bullshit has always been grifters dog whistling to morons.

[Refrax5]

Just gonna drop this…





The gingercide bullshit has always been grifters dog whistling to morons.

People have definitely complained about people not having the right hair color, though. People definitely complained about Gustin's hair and appearance, as well as Ezra Miller's as not looking like Barry Allen. People threw a fit about Daniel Craig being a 5'11 blond-haired Bond and Keaton not looking enough like Bruce Wayne. People definitely complained about Amy Adams not having the right hair color as Lois Lane. Do you honestly think people wouldn't complain if they had a redheaded Superman or a blond version of Diana? Because I bet they would.

I personally always found it odd that they made Betty Brant look like Gwen Stacy in the Holland Spidey movies, but those movies had made so many changes like that with more important characters that I just shrugged it off. A lot of the examples you cited are less famous characters and supporting cast or, in the case of Batgirl, not the same person.

I don't deny that there are a fair amount of racist comic fans and racist people in general, but I think it's unfair to immediately assume anybody who wants the character to have some of their distinctive physical characteristics is a racist. I never was bothered by say, Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin because I think of Fisk's defining physical characteristics as being a very large bald guy. I loved RJ Cyler as Billy in the Power Rangers reboot because it didn't really matter what Billy looked like, since in the show he was just a generic guy with glasses. It just depends. Wally being a character who's hair was frequently visible makes the red hair kind of a distinct feature in my mind. I found it really off-putting when they gave him black hair in Super Friends.

And again, the black Wally is a different character from the older one.

[Holt]

People have definitely complained about people not having the right hair color, though. People definitely complained about Gustin's hair and appearance, as well as Ezra Miller's as not looking like Barry Allen. People threw a fit about Daniel Craig being a 5'11 blond-haired Bond and Keaton not looking enough like Bruce Wayne. People definitely complained about Amy Adams not having the right hair color as Lois Lane. Do you honestly think people wouldn't complain if they had a redheaded Superman or a blond version of Diana? Because I bet they would.

I personally always found it odd that they made Betty Brant look like Gwen Stacy in the Holland Spidey movies, but those movies had made so many changes like that with more important characters that I just shrugged it off. A lot of the examples you cited are less famous characters and supporting cast or, in the case of Batgirl, not the same person.

I don't deny that there are a fair amount of racist comic fans and racist people in general, but I think it's unfair to immediately assume anybody who wants the character to have some of their distinctive physical characteristics is a racist. I never was bothered by say, Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin because I think of Fisk's defining physical characteristics as being a very large bald guy. I loved RJ Cyler as Billy in the Power Rangers reboot because it didn't really matter what Billy looked like, since in the show he was just a generic guy with glasses. It just depends. Wally being a character who's hair was frequently visible makes the red hair kind of a distinct feature in my mind. I found it really off-putting when they gave him black hair in Super Friends.

And again, the black Wally is a different character from the older one.

I’m sure there were pockets of fandom that had issue with the like, but that sort of outrage was never anywhere near what has happened since the allegations of “ginger erasure” became a thing. I’m sure if you looked you could find essays about how James Bond being blonde or Matt Murdock being a brunette is a betrayal of the character, but I’d be willing to bet it’s a small drop in the bucket compared to the West family or Mary Jane or Starfire (a goddamn orange skinned alien).

Are there people who just are legitimate sticklers for the source material? Absolutely. Has this talking point become thoroughly hijacked by bad faith grifters who have turned it into a culture war battleground by appealing to racists and general reactionary dumbasses who think there is some sort of secret war on white people? Also absolutely. Elon Musk loves pushing stupid bullshit like that to his followers.

I will concede that the Wally situation is different since DC has since established Wally and Ace as separate characters, however. But in general I’m just incapable of taking the debate seriously anymore the reasons outlined above.

[Refrax5]

I’m sure there were pockets of fandom that had issue with the like, but that sort of outrage was never anywhere near what has happened since the allegations of “ginger erasure” became a thing. I’m sure if you looked you could find essays about how James Bond being blonde or Matt Murdock being a brunette is a betrayal of the character, but I’d be willing to bet it’s a small drop in the bucket compared to the West family or Mary Jane or Starfire (a goddamn orange skinned alien).

Are there people who just are legitimate sticklers for the source material? Absolutely. Has this talking point become thoroughly hijacked by bad faith grifters who have turned it into a culture war battleground by appealing to racists and general reactionary dumbasses who think there is some sort of secret war on white people? Also absolutely. Elon Musk loves pushing stupid bullshit like that to his followers.

I will concede that the Wally situation is different since DC has since established Wally and Ace as separate characters, however. But in general I’m just incapable of taking the debate seriously anymore the reasons outlined above.

I understand that. The Craig Bond thing was a huuuge thing, though. I remember being excited for it and the internet was ablaze in anger over "James Blond" or how he was too short and too ugly or whatever to be Bond. It's a visual medium, so people definitely get bent out of shape over this stuff. I do, too, but as I said, it depends on the character. I thought Aldis Hodge was a great Hawkman in a mediocre movie and I'm a huge Hawkman fan. But Hawkman has rarely had a consistent appearance under that helmet and whatever his appearance was, it was usually fairly generic, so making him black didn't really feel off to me. People seemed fine with Momoa as Aquaman, for what that's worth.

But I agree that the "ginger erasure" thing is a bad faith argument. Just overall, I get a little twitchy about being lumped in with racists just because I prefer my Wally as a redheaded, freckled guy. It just feels like a part of who he is to me for some reason. But there are a lot of race swaps in adaptations that don't bother me at all. And hopefully it goes without saying that I find any form of bigotry abhorrent.

But anyway, I appreciate where you're coming from and I agree with you for the most part.

[Holt]

I understand that. The Craig Bond thing was a huuuge thing, though. I remember being excited for it and the internet was ablaze in anger over "James Blond" or how he was too short and too ugly or whatever to be Bond. It's a visual medium, so people definitely get bent out of shape over this stuff. I do, too, but as I said, it depends on the character. I thought Aldis Hodge was a great Hawkman in a mediocre movie and I'm a huge Hawkman fan. But Hawkman has rarely had a consistent appearance under that helmet and whatever his appearance was, it was usually fairly generic, so making him black didn't really feel off to me. People seemed fine with Momoa as Aquaman, for what that's worth.

But I agree that the "ginger erasure" thing is a bad faith argument. Just overall, I get a little twitchy about being lumped in with racists just because I prefer my Wally as a redheaded, freckled guy. It just feels like a part of who he is to me for some reason. But there are a lot of race swaps in adaptations that don't bother me at all. And hopefully it goes without saying that I find any form of bigotry abhorrent.

But anyway, I appreciate where you're coming from and I agree with you for the most part.

And I you. Your posts are always thoughtful and I totally get where you’re coming from here.

[Badou]

The gingercide people were not bothered about Nathan Fillion, famous non-redhead, being cast as redhead Guy Gardner. So they shouldn't be worried about Black Wally, right? RIGHT?

...oh yeah, forgot racism has no logic or rationale.

I think most people were just surprised Nathan Fillion wasn't playing Hal Jordan.

[manwhohaseverything]

The gingercide people were not bothered about Nathan Fillion, famous non-redhead, being cast as redhead Guy Gardner. So they shouldn't be worried about Black Wally, right? RIGHT?

...oh yeah, forgot racism has no logic or rationale.

Actually,redhead guy gardner fits would go vey well with the song
I came to know just now that guy gardner ain't gonna have red hair.