DCU Movies

[Ascended]

I actually think DC would do well to knock out some villain movies. Not a ton, but a few here and there?

Aside from the obvious exceptions, DC's rogues tend to be far better than Marvel's and could provide the kind of novelty audiences are looking for. I mean, who wouldn't want to see a heist film with the Central City Rogues? Or a corporate espionage film with Lex Luthor? A movie about Ra's al Ghul trying to 'save' the planet could be a really compelling mix of climate warning, terrorist movie, and Kurosawa, depending on how you spin the League of Assassins.

Again, not something I'd want a lot of, but a few sprinkled here and there could help keep things from getting stale. And I think that's the only problem the genre currently has. Marvel's used the same formula for fifteen years and other studios haven't been successful enough to matter (and often just try to copy the MCU anyway). It's not superheroes people are bored with, it's getting the same kind of story over and over again. A quality bad guy movie, in the flavor of Guy Ritchie or Tarantino? That could work.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

FWIW, Joker got a B+ too and didn't stop it from becoming a box office juggernaut.

If I’ve learned anything, it’s that you shouldn’t try to look for a silver lining here. The vibe is very much “the sky is falling.” I’m gonna see Blue Beetle this week and I’m sure I’ll like it.

Superhero fatigue may indeed be a thing. There’s only so much you can flood the market before people start to get tired of it and the MCU lately taking a huge dip in quality certainly played its part. And then RDJ literally saying things like “Marvel made me a worse actor” didn’t help things either. However, I think ppl are just now craving stories that are fundamentally human. And, I mean, that’s…a good thing too. Martin Scorsese was at least a little prescient when he said superhero moves are like theme park rides. They are. They’re colorful and fun. But they’re also at least a bit corporate. They feel more like products than art to an extent. And I think audiences want movies to feel like art again.

[Korath]

I wonder if another flop would be enough to have the whole DCU plans cancelled. I mean, that's a whole lot of money thrown away for Warner and they could certainly decide that shared universes are dead in the water for them.

I guess The Batman 2 and Joker 2 would also help them decide if they drop all comic books projects.

[Morgoth]

I wonder if another flop would be enough to have the whole DCU plans cancelled.

No DCEU flop won't be enough to do something like this. They don't really care at this point, they know, that DCEU is dead as franchise.

[skyvolt2000]

I wonder if another flop would be enough to have the whole DCU plans cancelled. I mean, that's a whole lot of money thrown away for Warner and they could certainly decide that shared universes are dead in the water for them.

I guess The Batman 2 and Joker 2 would also help them decide if they drop all comic books projects.

If I was in charge and an employee said that-I would FIRE them on the spot.

Maybe what needs to be done is for folks like Wonder Woman-we take a FEW years to work on them.

Meanwhile find some characters who could fit a budget of 50-100 million or at least make say $200 to break even (production and marketing). Try them.

Along with a better INVESTMENT in trades or OGNS. Start introducing folks to kids to young adult levels.

There should be 5-7 OGNs about Commando Creatures before we see that movie. So no one can say they don't know who they are.

FWIW, Joker got a B+ too and didn't stop it from becoming a box office juggernaut.

When that happened there was not a culture war going on.

NOR the negative side effects of STREAMING. If they said you will not see this movie on a streaming platform until 2025-how fast do folks run to see the movie?

[Primal Slayer]

****. Blue Beetle has no hope now. If audience reception had been good then WOM may have saved the movie. For reference this is the score that all of the other DC movies have gotten this year, and we saw how the legs were for those.

That isnt going to hurt it. It may have a B+ cinemascore but its also Certified Fresh.

The film was never going to be a hit in this current climate. Actors couldnt do ANY promo work for the film. WB did a horrible job of marketing the film. It's a great film so of course it'll fail but at least it has one thing all the other DC films lacked - very good reviews.

[Johnny]

When that happened there was not a culture war going on.

NOR the negative side effects of STREAMING. If they said you will not see this movie on a streaming platform until 2025-how fast do folks run to see the movie?

Are you sure about that? Because I remember all the pearl clutching that Joker was going to inspire mass shootings by violent incels. Then a machete fight broke out during a Frozen 2 screening. Never laughed harder in my life.

[Korath]

Saw the movies with my Mexican boyfriend and we loved it - her Mexican friend also. Man I hope the word of mouth is great because this movie moved me hard. I cried, and it hasn't happened since at least Endgame.

[marhawkman]

The problem is not only in the brand, mass audience's preferences indeed have changed. They want some huge cinematic events and/or exceptionally good projects like Mario, Guardians, Across the Spider-Verse, Barbie, Oppenheimer. Blue Beetle is good, way better, than Flash, Shazam and Adam, but it's a pretty generic superhero origin everybody have seen dozens of times. People won't go to see this, not in current mindset, where many of them choose to wait for release on streaming, perception of movie experience changed. Even Mission Impossible suffered, because audience simply does not see anything new and prefers to stay at home and wait for the release on streaming.
Legacy has to be exceptionally good. Brave and Bold has to be exceptionally good. All DCU projects have to be made this way, otherwise they're done, people just wouldn't give a damn.

I think a lot of it is that cinema is just not as popular as it used to be, home theater is just more fun. SOME movies will still make bank, but less than before probably.

Also what is "fatigue" in the sense of "why do viewers not watch"? Toho has made comments regarding "fatigue" affecting Godzilla movies, but they identified part of that as a lack of good ideas, not just "people aren't interested".

[Beantownbrown]

Ben Affleck's Batman Removal Rumor Gets Called Out by James Gunn

[Vordan]

I think a lot of it is that cinema is just not as popular as it used to be, home theater is just more fun. SOME movies will still make bank, but less than before probably.

Also what is "fatigue" in the sense of "why do viewers not watch"? Toho has made comments regarding "fatigue" affecting Godzilla movies, but they identified part of that as a lack of good ideas, not just "people aren't interested".

Superhero fatigue translates to “I’ve seen this before and seeing it again bores me.” Superhero movies suffer from frequently poor CGI, poor third acts, weak villains, and overuse of cliches. How many times have we seen the hero fight an evil version of themselves? That’s what people mean when they say fatigue, the general audience has become bored of the tropes and will only show up if the movie promises something new.

For Legacy that’s a problem because thus far the only villain slated to appear is… Lex Luthor. If Gunn has failed to break the trend of only using Lex or Zod for Superman movies, Legacy is DOA. Clinging to hope right now that since the Superman social media accounts shared Brainiac as an influence on Legacy, Brainiac is going to be in the movie and has a meaty role.

[Username taken]

I think a lot of it is that cinema is just not as popular as it used to be, home theater is just more fun. SOME movies will still make bank, but less than before probably.

Also what is "fatigue" in the sense of "why do viewers not watch"? Toho has made comments regarding "fatigue" affecting Godzilla movies, but they identified part of that as a lack of good ideas, not just "people aren't interested".

Exactly.

I shared the results of a survey in the box office thread that showed that Barbie was the first movie a lot of people came out to see post-pandemic. It also showed that a lot of people have no interest in returning to theaters with the same regularity as before.

Nowadays, regardless of quality people just aren't coming out like before. Case in point, MI-7 got great reviews but didn't really do very well (especially in the face of Barbie and Oppenheimer). Basically, if a movie doesn't catch the cultural zeitgeist, a lot of people just don't turn up. I suspect a lot of people don't really feel the need to go see a movie that's will turn up in a few months time on streaming.

[bat39]

So...I watched Blue Beetle. And I loved it!

I mean, I loved The Flash as well, so that's not saying much! But Blue Beetle was refreshing. Not a sequel. Not a high-stakes multiversal crisis movie loaded with nostalgia bait. Just a nice, straightforward film with a decent soundtrack, some compelling characters, great visuals and even a bit of socio-political depth that doesn't come across as forced!

This movie will probably not do too well at the box office because a of a variety of factors (the strikes, poor perception of the DCEU brand, the streaming vs. theatre debate etc.). But its a film that definitely deserved to have done well, moreso than The Flash or Shazam! Fury of the Gods. Well, at least the Latino aspect will guarantee it a cult status - I do hope it gains a cult status among the larger DC fanbase as well.

Anyway, Gunn seems to have committed to Xolo's Blue Beetle staying in his new DCU, so look forward to more from Jaime, Jenny and the whole family!

Now onto some more spoilery stuff...

spoilers:

I love the respect the film shows to Ted Kord, and to the Blue Beetle legacy in general (one of the first things we see in the film, during the opening credits, is an article about Dan Garett, and he's mentioned later in the film as the Scarab's previous host). Ted doesn't really appear in the film, but he's very much present in spirit, and the Bug as well as his Blue Beetle gadgets are instumental in saving the day. Too often, adaptations with legacy characters tend to ignore or erase the predecessor. Or, as was the case with Mar-Vell, in Captain Marvel, gender-bend them and strip them of their superhero identity. Ant-Man was a big exception to this trend on the Marvel side, and Blue Beetle now joins it on the DC side. Who knows? Maybe Ted Kord will be gracing our screens soon enough...hopefully with a certain Michael Jon Carter in tow! As for the rest...Xolo is pretty good as Jaime. All the performances are great, really. I felt emotionally invested in all the characters. Yes, the film as a whole feels like a pretty by-the-numbers superhero origin film, but so what? Most films in a particular genre regurgitate tried-and-tested plot beats...their success depends on how they do it, and whether they add any fresh variations on the old themes. I feel that Blue Beetle does that, with the unique elements being Jamie's family and the hispanic experience (coupled with the history of US involvement in Latin America), and the legacy aspect of the Blue Beetle. It was actually pretty refreshing to not have any cameos or intersection with the larger DCU, beyond a few stray references to Superman, Batman and the Flash. It kept the focus squarely on Jaime and his story, and on Ted Kord's legacy. Can't remember the last DCEU film to not feature cameos or extended appearances from other DCEU characters. It's just as well, since the lack of any specificity means that Blue Beetle can easily be slot into Gunn's new DCU. Though I suppose the fact that Ted was active as Blue Beetle over 15 years ago does feel more in line with a world where it was intended for Batman (Michael Keaton) to have been around since the 80's...I think it does still line up though and I have no problem with Ted Kord's non-powered Blue Beetle preceeding the likes of Superman (David Corenswet). Just a final thought...does anyone else think that Jenny's mother/Ted's wife is supposed to be Beatriz Da Costa AKA Fire? Given that Jenny's Brazilian, which means that her mother would have been Brazilian. Were Ted and Beatriz ever linked romantically in the comics during the JLI years or later?

end of spoilers

[marhawkman]

I actually think DC would do well to knock out some villain movies. Not a ton, but a few here and there?

Aside from the obvious exceptions, DC's rogues tend to be far better than Marvel's and could provide the kind of novelty audiences are looking for. I mean, who wouldn't want to see a heist film with the Central City Rogues? Or a corporate espionage film with Lex Luthor? A movie about Ra's al Ghul trying to 'save' the planet could be a really compelling mix of climate warning, terrorist movie, and Kurosawa, depending on how you spin the League of Assassins.

Again, not something I'd want a lot of, but a few sprinkled here and there could help keep things from getting stale. And I think that's the only problem the genre currently has. Marvel's used the same formula for fifteen years and other studios haven't been successful enough to matter (and often just try to copy the MCU anyway). It's not superheroes people are bored with, it's getting the same kind of story over and over again. A quality bad guy movie, in the flavor of Guy Ritchie or Tarantino? That could work.

This is an interesting point since the Marvel comics HAVE done villain focused stories in the past. Many of them actually made the characters in question MORE scary. Like Apocalypse vs Dracula. It goes into the backstory of Apocalypse... but in a way that makes him even scarier.

[marhawkman]

Superhero fatigue translates to “I’ve seen this before and seeing it again bores me.” Superhero movies suffer from frequently poor CGI, poor third acts, weak villains, and overuse of cliches. How many times have we seen the hero fight an evil version of themselves? That’s what people mean when they say fatigue, the general audience has become bored of the tropes and will only show up if the movie promises something new.

For Legacy that’s a problem because thus far the only villain slated to appear is… Lex Luthor. If Gunn has failed to break the trend of only using Lex or Zod for Superman movies, Legacy is DOA. Clinging to hope right now that since the Superman social media accounts shared Brainiac as an influence on Legacy, Brainiac is going to be in the movie and has a meaty role.

Some of what you say here though isn't boredom, but... expecting disappointment.