DCU Movies

[Sodam Yat]

This implies the Barry Allen character had something to do with The Flash bombing and we should use its failure as an excuse to sweep him under the rug.

It has more to do with the actor than the character on why it failed imo. I personally thought the movie was great, despite how shitty Erza Miller's Barry Allen character was.

It's really interesting despite some of the **** this guy has done (which is one of the reasons I feel the movie has not done well), DC will give him a chance, while it's out of the question with the black man (Ray Fisher).

[Johnny]

It has more to do with the actor than the character on why it failed imo. I personally thought the movie was great, despite how shitty Erza Miller's Barry Allen character was.

It's really interesting despite some of the **** this guy has done (which is one of the reasons I feel the movie has not done well), DC will give him a chance, while it's out of the question with the black man (Ray Fisher).

Shows that when a lot of money's on the line, they'd forgive you for anything, unless you call them out on being horrible people. Hollywood in a nutshell.

[Castling]

Fair enough. I don't agree that Snyder's movies are 'bad' movies in the least (especially not MOS), but I think there is some merit in your perspective - especially the part in bold.

As I'd said on the MOS thread over on the Superman forum, on some level, a lot of the criticism of MOS and BvS is rooted in ideological differences within the fanbase regarding the superhero genre and how it should be represented.



Yeah, that little speech by Keaton's Bruce pretty much set the stage for all manner of DC shenanigans, and every possible permutation of reboot/soft-reboot/retcon.

Its entirely possible to have the Peacemaker and SS characters on a completely different earth be entirely the same as the DCEU versions, while everyone else has changed. Gunn can pick and choose which actors from the DCEU he wants in his DCU. Kinda how how DC writers/editors pick and choose which past stories they want to include while building a new continuity.

The confusion of course arises from the fact that Gunn said the ending of Flash would reset the DCEU into the DCU, suggesting there was a causal link between the two. If we were to take that as face value though, then it would mean that George Clooney is the new Batman of the DCU, which is clearly not going to be the case And Gunn actively made the choice to get that new ending filmed...he could have gone with something different or simply gone with the original ending (which in turn would clearly cut off The Flash from his DCU).

The ending of Flash tells me that Barry is living in a new timeline he created by helping his dad. That is what he chooses to live with now and that is where we are going to leave him. It essentially closes the door on the DCEU and allows Gunn to move forward with his reboot. Aquaman 2 takes place before the events of The Flash while Blue Beetle is the first DCU character, along with Waller and Team Peacemaker. Gunn has said (on Rosenbaum's podcast) that there will not be a The Suicide Squad 2.

[marhawkman]

The ending of Flash tells me that Barry is living in a new timeline he created by helping his dad. That is what he chooses to live with now and that is where we are going to leave him. It essentially closes the door on the DCEU and allows Gunn to move forward with his reboot. Aquaman 2 takes place before the events of The Flash while Blue Beetle is the first DCU character, along with Waller and Team Peacemaker. Gunn has said (on Rosenbaum's podcast) that there will not be a The Suicide Squad 2.

hunh? I thought they already made a second one?

[Castling]

hunh? I thought they already made a second one?

There's Suicide Squad (2016) by David Ayer and The Suicide Squad (2021) by James Gunn. James confirmed there wouldn't be a traditional sequel to his film. The story carries on through Peacemaker, Waller, and Peacemaker Season 2.

[Refrax5]

The ending of Flash tells me that Barry is living in a new timeline he created by helping his dad. That is what he chooses to live with now and that is where we are going to leave him. It essentially closes the door on the DCEU and allows Gunn to move forward with his reboot. Aquaman 2 takes place before the events of The Flash while Blue Beetle is the first DCU character, along with Waller and Team Peacemaker. Gunn has said (on Rosenbaum's podcast) that there will not be a The Suicide Squad 2.

I'm pretty sure Aquaman 2 comes after the Flash. If Aquaman 2 happened before Flash, they probably wouldn't have cut Affleck's scenes from it or shown Arthur unchanged in the revised timeline.

[Sodam Yat]

Shows that when a lot of money's on the line, they'd forgive you for anything, unless you call them out on being horrible people. Hollywood in a nutshell.

What makes it even worse is that Ray Fisher was a really good actor that played Cyborg. I have a friend that doesn't read comics and he really liked Cyborg as a character after watching the JL movie. But Erza Miller? I think the acting was wack and brings distaste to Barry's character imo. I really hope Barry's character doesn't turn to like that in the comics. Grant Gustin's Barry Allen was better by far.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The ending of Flash tells me that Barry is living in a new timeline he created by helping his dad. That is what he chooses to live with now and that is where we are going to leave him. It essentially closes the door on the DCEU and allows Gunn to move forward with his reboot. Aquaman 2 takes place before the events of The Flash while Blue Beetle is the first DCU character, along with Waller and Team Peacemaker. Gunn has said (on Rosenbaum's podcast) that there will not be a The Suicide Squad 2.

That doesn’t really make sense. For one, it would be…weird, to say the least, if Aquaman 2 was taking place before the Flash, but being released not only after The Flash but after Blue Beetle (aka the confirmed “first character” is the new DCU). Also, the post-credit scene really seems to fly in the face of that. It would require us to believe that either they were choosing to spend time in a “dead” continuity after its death or that they were choosing to set an entire other movie in this “new new” timeline that Barry created for…reasons. Neither of those two possibilities seems that likely to me.

It could just be the case that, given the fact that Gunn said “some people are staying” and then Safran went on the record saying that there are “few castings as perfect as Jason Momoa as Aquaman,” they’ve decided that Jason made the cut of people who get to stay. I know some on this forum are ravenous to get rid of literally every vestige of Snyder’s influence on the DCU, but maybe, just maybe, they should be prepared for that possibility?

[Robotman]

So Ezra Miller turned audiences away big time. Remember who still has 10 to 15 minutes of screen time in Aquaman 2? Amber Heard.

Snyder really picked some winners.

That doesn’t really make sense. For one, it would be…weird, to say the least, if Aquaman 2 was taking place before the Flash, but being released not only after The Flash but after Blue Beetle (aka the confirmed “first character” is the new DCU). Also, the post-credit scene really seems to fly in the face of that. It would require us to believe that either they were choosing to spend time in a “dead” continuity after its death or that they were choosing to set an entire other movie in this “new new” timeline that Barry created for…reasons. Neither of those two possibilities seems that likely to me.

It could just be the case that, given the fact that Gunn said “some people are staying” and then Safran went on the record saying that there are “few castings as perfect as Jason Momoa as Aquaman,” they’ve decided that Jason made the cut of people who get to stay. I know some on this forum are ravenous to get rid of literally every vestige of Snyder’s influence on the DCU, but maybe, just maybe, they should be prepared for that possibility?

Momoa is not gonna play Aquaman again. I’m not a gambling man but I would put money on it.

What makes it even worse is that Ray Fisher was a really good actor that played Cyborg. I have a friend that doesn't read comics and he really liked Cyborg as a character after watching the JL movie. But Erza Miller? I think the acting was wack and brings distaste to Barry's character imo. I really hope Barry's character doesn't turn to like that in the comics. Grant Gustin's Barry Allen was better by far.

If my memory serves most of Ezra’s shenanigans happened after they had already started filming The Flash. They had already sunk way too much money in the film to turn back or recast when the **** was hitting the fan. So I really don’t think this is a situation of Ezra getting a free pass.

It just looks a lot worse because the movie was delayed because of the pandemic. So in the eyes of the general public Ezra went on his mad excursions and then WB had him star in their Flash movie.

[skyvolt2000]

It has more to do with the actor than the character on why it failed imo. I personally thought the movie was great, despite how shitty Erza Miller's Barry Allen character was.

It's really interesting despite some of the **** this guy has done (which is one of the reasons I feel the movie has not done well), DC will give him a chance, while it's out of the question with the black man (Ray Fisher).

Ray Fisher went after a man that had nothing to do with what he went through with Wheldon because he was not yet working for the company at the time.
He was then empowered by a set of fans and later a woman with an ax to grind because she wanted race issues in DC projects that did not need them.

This implies the Barry Allen character had something to do with The Flash bombing and we should use its failure as an excuse to sweep him under the rug.

Generally that is a weapon of thought mainly used against characters of color.

See Disney Strange World-the gay son is blamed when his sexuality had nothing to do with it.
See Ms Marvel, Miles, Duke, Nubia, Brawn, Riri Williams, John Stewart, Synch, Jo, Lightning Lad, Malik White, Wallace, Naomi, Jace, Yar, Jaime Reyes and so many more I could name who have ALL been blamed for books being bad. Especially books they DON'T appear in.

Because folks would rather not deal in FACTS.

It's NEVER the actors, writers, editors, store owners and other factors at fault.


DC wants someone to blame-start with WHO did the hiring of Ezra.
WHO caved in and gave more money to something they needed to move on from.

Optics look bad that Batgirl of color lost her movie.
Toxic guy kept his and the excuse is too much money invested.

How much more cutting is WB going to have to do to make up for this huge loss?

Who probably just lost their movie deal? Does Static lose his movie? Does Lois & Clark get GUTTED even more?

[Johnny]

Generally that is a weapon of thought mainly used against characters of color.

See Disney Strange World-the gay son is blamed when his sexuality had nothing to do with it.
See Ms Marvel, Miles, Duke, Nubia, Brawn, Riri Williams, John Stewart, Synch, Jo, Lightning Lad, Malik White, Wallace, Naomi, Jace, Yar, Jaime Reyes and so many more I could name who have ALL been blamed for books being bad. Especially books they DON'T appear in.

Because folks would rather not deal in FACTS.

It's NEVER the actors, writers, editors, store owners and other factors at fault.


DC wants someone to blame-start with WHO did the hiring of Ezra.
WHO caved in and gave more money to something they needed to move on from.

Optics look bad that Batgirl of color lost her movie.
Toxic guy kept his and the excuse is too much money invested.

How much more cutting is WB going to have to do to make up for this huge loss?

Who probably just lost their movie deal? Does Static lose his movie? Does Lois & Clark get GUTTED even more?

And this specifically has nothing to do with characters of color, yet you're once again using it to do a forced racial tirade for absolutely no reason.

[Gaastra]

Gal again confirms she is still in talks to stay as wonder woman. Pretty much a crisis reboot of "chance some things but everything else is the same".

https://deadline.com/2023/06/gal-gad...re-1235421347/

[Last Son of Krypton]

Variety: ‘The Flash’ Box Office ‘Disaster’ Exposes DC’s $1.1 Billion Problem for Warner Bros.

Zaslav storming into Gunn/Safran's office to talk after reading the article:

[lefthanded]

Variety: ‘The Flash’ Box Office ‘Disaster’ Exposes DC’s $1.1 Billion Problem for Warner Bros.

There is kind of a hilariousness that the reason Warners couldn't just replace Ezra, was that the script they chose required two Ezra's. Had the script instead been more in line with the actual Flashpoint that this is based off of, which featured only one Flash, Ezra could have more easily been replaced.

I personally didn't care for even one of Ezra's Flash, as the twitchy motormouth shtick just doesn't work, so a movie with two of them is even more unappealing.

Everything about this project just stepped on every landmine possible.

[bat39]

It has more to do with the actor than the character on why it failed imo. I personally thought the movie was great, despite how shitty Erza Miller's Barry Allen character was.

It's really interesting despite some of the **** this guy has done (which is one of the reasons I feel the movie has not done well), DC will give him a chance, while it's out of the question with the black man (Ray Fisher).

Well, in Ezra's case, a) the movie was already shot so there was no scope of replacing him without spending tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars, and b) all the stuff he's done or alleged to have done had nothing to do with his relationship with WB per se.

In the case of Ray Fisher, the guy specifically targeted a bunch of senior WB executives, accusing them of racism (or enabling racism) and generally made it a point to be a pain in the ass for the studio for a few years. Understandably they'd want to keep their distance.

WB is a business at the end of the day. No one's interested in morality and political ideology unless it makes/loses them money. Frankly, I don't think the majority of the audience gives a damn either. Even now, unless someone can specifically prove it, I don't think Ezra Miller's controversy necessarily caused the movie to perform poorly - sadly, there were a whole bunch of other factors at play. Including perhaps Miller's own poor performance in JL.

That doesn’t really make sense. For one, it would be…weird, to say the least, if Aquaman 2 was taking place before the Flash, but being released not only after The Flash but after Blue Beetle (aka the confirmed “first character” is the new DCU). Also, the post-credit scene really seems to fly in the face of that. It would require us to believe that either they were choosing to spend time in a “dead” continuity after its death or that they were choosing to set an entire other movie in this “new new” timeline that Barry created for…reasons. Neither of those two possibilities seems that likely to me.

It could just be the case that, given the fact that Gunn said “some people are staying” and then Safran went on the record saying that there are “few castings as perfect as Jason Momoa as Aquaman,” they’ve decided that Jason made the cut of people who get to stay. I know some on this forum are ravenous to get rid of literally every vestige of Snyder’s influence on the DCU, but maybe, just maybe, they should be prepared for that possibility?

Honestly, I'm 99% sure Jason Momoa is staying. He's the one JL actor of the original six likely to stay in the DCEU, between Cavill and Affleck being out, Miller most likely being out, Fisher obviously being out and Gadot sort of being on the fence (but I'd bet potentially being out).

DC/WB isn't looking at this reboot from some kind of emotional perspective. They don't want to 'purge' the Snyderverse or whatever the way some people on this forum want to. They simply want a shift in direction, and they're willing to keep stuff that works (or at any rate, that Gunn worked on and wants to keep). Their goal is to turn a profit, not commit to the ideological purity of a hard reboot. If they feel Momoa is still a draw, and retains a fairly passionate fanbase as Aquaman, and if the actor is in and Gunn wants him, then he'll stay, irrespective of Aquaman 2's performance most likely.