The contest being erased.

[wonder39]

The thing is if Diana is on Superman's level (or even above it) from childhood then is there any "doubt"? Would you really think the contest made sense if you had a team of track and field stars racing Wally West?

Is there any point to a contest when one (and only one) of the people is regularly performing at a 20 on a scale that stops at 10, and every other member is performing on their best day at a 10 in maybe two areas being tested?

The point of the Contest is that it's Diana's catalyst. Because of the Contest, she decides to leave her home, her family, Paradise itself, in order to protect mankind from evil, and bring the Amazon way to the outside world via example. The contestants are masked ( at least in most versions) so no one knows who is whom.
It's less about Diana, her abilities, and the perceived " fairness" by those outside of comics reality ( us).

It's the motivator for Diana. She has to make that choice. To betray her mother's wishes. To test herself. To find that strength in herself to meet her destiny .

[WonderLight789]

The thing is if Diana is on Superman's level (or even above it) from childhood then is there any "doubt"? Would you really think the contest made sense if you had a team of track and field stars racing Wally West?

Is there any point to a contest when one (and only one) of the people is regularly performing at a 20 on a scale that stops at 10, and every other member is performing on their best day at a 10 in maybe two areas being tested?

Well that is not a problem then. Because she is not on Superman's level, let alone above it.

[marhawkman]

The point of the Contest is that it's Diana's catalyst. Because of the Contest, she decides to leave her home, her family, Paradise itself, in order to protect mankind from evil, and bring the Amazon way to the outside world via example. The contestants are masked ( at least in most versions) so no one knows who is whom.
It's less about Diana, her abilities, and the perceived " fairness" by those outside of comics reality ( us).

It's the motivator for Diana. She has to make that choice. To betray her mother's wishes. To test herself. To find that strength in herself to meet her destiny .

Haha, the mask angle was used in Superfriends to let Priscilla Rich take part, despite not being an amazon

[Phoenixx9]

The thing is if Diana is on Superman's level (or even above it) from childhood then is there any "doubt"? Would you really think the contest made sense if you had a team of track and field stars racing Wally West?

Is there any point to a contest when one (and only one) of the people is regularly performing at a 20 on a scale that stops at 10, and every other member is performing on their best day at a 10 in maybe two areas being tested?

Yes, thank you for getting what I have stated a number of times on the last page.

No one knew at the First Tornament just how WONDERFUL Diana was or that she was so far above the other Amazons.

After the first one, it would NOT be fair to include Diana in future Tournaments, unless other Wonder Women were included.

It was mark that argued otherwise, not myself.

[MajorHoy]

The point of the Contest is that it's Diana's catalyst. Because of the Contest, she decides to leave her home, her family, Paradise itself, in order to protect mankind from evil, and bring the Amazon way to the outside world via example. The contestants are masked ( at least in most versions) so no one knows who is whom...

But back in Wonder Woman #1 in 1942, wasn't Diana the only masked contestant?

From the story when it was reprinted in Secret Origins #3 (July-August 1973):

[Jon Clark]

Yes, thank you for getting what I have stated a number of times on the last page.

No one knew at the First Tornament just how WONDERFUL Diana was or that she was so far above the other Amazons.

After the first one, it would NOT be fair to include Diana in future Tournaments, unless other Wonder Women were included.

It was mark that argued otherwise, not myself.

But agian Diana isn't Clark Kent. She;s the princess of her people. How realistic is it that Diana operating on a superhuman (by Amazon standards) level isn't a known fact?

Bruce Wayne besides hiding his physical abilities outside of his Batman role isn't supposed to be so physically superior that on a bad day he couldn't be out performed physically by any athlete. Barry or Wally on the other hand will never realistically be out run by any normal human.

[Jon Clark]

Well that is not a problem then. Because she is not on Superman's level, let alone above it.

But then she shouldn't be performing Superman level feats in the JLA.

[Guy_McNichts]

Something to consider is how Diana's powers more or less function in the first place. Meaning, is she always "on"?

Like, Superman's powers are generally depicted as always "on" and he needs to hold them back or suppress them to go about his day as Clark Kent without breaking everything. To use Dragon Ball as an imperfect reference, Clark is always at Super Saiyan and needs to actively keep his power level lower.

But is it the same for Diana? What if her "base" is no different than the average Amazon, but when she uses her super-strength or speed, it's akin to flexing a muscle?

I don't know if this has ever been addressed in any comics. And if it has, I'm willing to bet it hasn't been consistent. But it could be relevant in how well known the extent of Diana' s powers were among the Amazons and how she utilized them in the Contest (if at all).

Of course, there's also the first movie's approach where Diana always had powers and strength, but they grew over time and she wasn't even aware of what she was capable of until she started doing it.

[Phoenixx9]

But agian Diana isn't Clark Kent. She;s the princess of her people. How realistic is it that Diana operating on a superhuman (by Amazon standards) level isn't a known fact?

Bruce Wayne besides hiding his physical abilities outside of his Batman role isn't supposed to be so physically superior that on a bad day he couldn't be out performed physically by any athlete. Barry or Wally on the other hand will never realistically be out run by any normal human.

As I stated last page a number of times, no one knew Diana's full abilities. While it could be argued Hippolyta suspected and that is the reason she did not want Diana to compete (since Diana would win and have to leave), Diana herself shows no indication of knowing that she would win. She just wanted the opportunity to try.

Diana obviously trained and sparred with her sisters but only used the force necessary to spar and play, which was on par with them, just as friends who wrestle or rough-house would do. After all, no Amazon was trying to hurt the other. However, during the Tournament, that was the time to go all-out and we all get to see for the first time just what Diana can do.

I also have repeatedly stated that after the First Tournament, it would not be fair for Diana to compete against the other Amazons, unless other Wonder Women were the contestants competing.

I did not create/write the Story of Suprema, The Wonder Woman. If you have objections to how and why Diana competed in the First Tournament, then I suggest the one you need to talk to is Dr Marston!

[Garrac]

Ive read all the publications ever made about Wonder Woman, so I know everything happens, and nothing does at the same time.

To this topic, I say the same as to the sucking-ass retcon they did with daddy Zeus: everything comes back, eventually. It will come, but I think there's mainly one big problem here: there is a certain fatigue among some readers of reading Wondy's origin over and over. But it will come, sooner or later. I mean, they did even (sort of) bring it back during Infinite Frontier, even if it was just one singular test.

But as a person who likes to see the glass half full, I'd speculate about which role would Nubia have, now that she is being stablished as a main character. Would she be just another rival? Would she have more importance in the story related to Diana herself? Or will she just be a one-panel character to defeat? I think it's interesting to question these things because Williams and company have opened a very useful door for narrative options in Themyscira with this character, that allows other new mechanics in the Hypolita-Diana relationship. Will see.

[marhawkman]

Yes, thank you for getting what I have stated a number of times on the last page.

No one knew at the First Tornament just how WONDERFUL Diana was or that she was so far above the other Amazons.

After the first one, it would NOT be fair to include Diana in future Tournaments, unless other Wonder Women were included.

It was mark that argued otherwise, not myself.

No, I was arguing that the contest itself makes no sense if you know the winner before you even start the contest.

But back in Wonder Woman #1 in 1942, wasn't Diana the only masked contestant?

From the story when it was reprinted in Secret Origins #3 (July-August 1973):

Hmm... so Mala was the second-best?

[Phoenixx9]

No, I was arguing that the contest itself makes no sense if you know the winner before you even start the contest.Hmm... so Mala was the second-best?

Right, but once again, we did not know the winner before the contest started. That is why they held the contest.

[BiteTheBullet]

Something to consider is how Diana's powers more or less function in the first place. Meaning, is she always "on"?

Like, Superman's powers are generally depicted as always "on" and he needs to hold them back or suppress them to go about his day as Clark Kent without breaking everything. To use Dragon Ball as an imperfect reference, Clark is always at Super Saiyan and needs to actively keep his power level lower.

But is it the same for Diana? What if her "base" is no different than the average Amazon, but when she uses her super-strength or speed, it's akin to flexing a muscle?

I don't know if this has ever been addressed in any comics. And if it has, I'm willing to bet it hasn't been consistent. But it could be relevant in how well known the extent of Diana' s powers were among the Amazons and how she utilized them in the Contest (if at all).

Of course, there's also the first movie's approach where Diana always had powers and strength, but they grew over time and she wasn't even aware of what she was capable of until she started doing it.

And, it didn't kick in for her until 900 years later. Great logical consistency there (sarcasm implied). Same thing about her gaining flying abilities, albeit she had to learn how to fly from a man, not by her lonesome!

[WonderScott]

I think that knowing Diana is going to win the contest is just part of her story, her legend or her myth. To me it’s similar to already knowing going in that Krypton is going to explode and Clark is going to land in a field in Kansas or Thomas and Martha Wayne are going to be murdered in front Bruce in Crime Alley and Bruce is going to witness a bat at some point that inspires him.

You can tell the journey to the destination in different ways, but the result generally follows the legend.

It terms of Diana’s abilities and powers I think there’s lots of ways to tell the story too. My preference is that the goddesses and Hermes give her life and she’s born with all the abilities, strength, vitality, speed and powers of an Amazon. (Which to me are several times greater than regular peak people, like Batman, from Man’s World.) In parallel, or sometime during Amazon history, the goddesses and Hermes also receive a prophecy about a champion that will “save the world.” Between the gods’ prophecy and the Amazon oracle’s prophecy, the Amazons decide to send an emissary with Steve Trevor back to Patriarch’s World to fight the “big bad.’

To choose from the best and bravest amongst them, they hold the second Contest of Champions. (The first Contest was prior to Diana’s birth and the victor was Nubia who protected Themyscira from behind Doom’s Doorway.)

Diana wants to participate. Hippolyta says nope. Diana participates anyway and wins. The Amazons cheer and Hippolyta has her emotions. Meanwhile, the goddesses and Hermes realize this is the prophecy foretold, Diana’s destiny and, given the nature of the threat, appear to Diana and the Amazons to bestow their gifts on her.

It’s one way to do it, but there are others that can keep Diana’s destiny and make the Contest equal and equitable amongst the Amazons.

[Guy_McNichts]

And, it didn't kick in for her until 900 years later. Great logical consistency there (sarcasm implied). Same thing about her gaining flying abilities, albeit she had to learn how to fly from a man, not by her lonesome!

Wow. Thrilling.


Moving on....