Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 83
  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    329

    Default The contest being erased.

    In the Justice League animated series, New 52, Rebirth, and 2017 Wonder Woman movie, they got rid of Diana winning the tournament to become a emissary to man's world.

    Were you ok with this change or the contest was too important to ignore?

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member donnafan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    340

    Default

    It does seem, especially in other media, that creators are moving away from the idea of the contest. Personally, I prefer the contest because, I like the idea of the title of Wonder Woman as being something earned and actually obtainable for any worthy Amazon to hold. This idea has produced some great stories, such as the 1978 Wonder Woman story where Orana challenges and defeats Diana for the title of Wonder Woman. A storyline that was repeated with a twist in 1995 when Artemis, another red-headed Amazon, won the contest to become Wonder Woman.

    Issues with the story aside, I also liked the fact that Trial of the Amazons by Conrad and Cloonan featured another contest to determine the champion to protect Doom's Doorway. The idea was a nice shout out to the original contest storyline. I think it's a nice way to display the culture of the Amazons which includes Olympic-like contests to determine high-ranking or status positions within the tribe.
    Last edited by donnafan; 11-30-2022 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,168

    Default

    I hate leaving the tournament out. It's an exciting part of Dianas origin, showing her as an equal to her sisters and something that is earned instead of just stolen and accepted by Hipp and co.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Occupied Klendathu
    Posts
    13,001

    Default

    Would generally prefer it being kept but I can see why adaptations omit it.

    Though I'm less forgiving of it (DCAU) than others (DCEU).

  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,962

    Default

    I don't think it's ideal because I think it's an important aspect of the character and her origin, but I think usually it's omitted purely for pacing/time purposes.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahina View Post
    In the Justice League animated series, New 52, Rebirth, and 2017 Wonder Woman movie, they got rid of Diana winning the tournament to become a emissary to man's world.

    Were you ok with this change or the contest was too important to ignore?
    Rebirth has the contest! Diana wins and she doesn't get her powers until she's in Man's World. Though who knows where the Year One origin stands now that they've done that weird World War 2 retcon-but-also-not nonsense...

    I like the contest, but I'd rather they cut it than have her win with a huge unfair advantage. For example, in Perez's run it felt completely pointless.

    My favorite workaround is just getting creative with the types of tests. It's better characterization for the Amazons and makes Diana's powers much less of a factor. Think Historia vol. 2, where the Amazons train Hippolyta's tribe by teaching them falconry, storytelling, dance, medicine, math, etc. and specifically say fighting is just one part of their culture.

    Steve Orlando's run has my favorite ever version of an Amazon contest for this very reason - most of the events are unrelated to the contestants' raw strength/speed and it's also just ridiculously fun and hilarious.


  7. #7
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    Rebirth has the contest! Diana wins and she doesn't get her powers until she's in Man's World. Though who knows where the Year One origin stands now that they've done that weird World War 2 retcon-but-also-not nonsense...

    I like the contest, but I'd rather they cut it than have her win with a huge unfair advantage. For example, in Perez's run it felt completely pointless.

    My favorite workaround is just getting creative with the types of tests. It's better characterization for the Amazons and makes Diana's powers much less of a factor. Think Historia vol. 2, where the Amazons train Hippolyta's tribe by teaching them falconry, storytelling, dance, medicine, math, etc. and specifically say fighting is just one part of their culture.

    Steve Orlando's run has my favorite ever version of an Amazon contest for this very reason - most of the events are unrelated to the contestants' raw strength/speed and it's also just ridiculously fun and hilarious.

    I found out that there was a contest in Rebirth. My mistake.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    Rebirth has the contest! Diana wins and she doesn't get her powers until she's in Man's World. Though who knows where the Year One origin stands now that they've done that weird World War 2 retcon-but-also-not nonsense...

    I like the contest, but I'd rather they cut it than have her win with a huge unfair advantage. For example, in Perez's run it felt completely pointless.

    My favorite workaround is just getting creative with the types of tests. It's better characterization for the Amazons and makes Diana's powers much less of a factor. Think Historia vol. 2, where the Amazons train Hippolyta's tribe by teaching them falconry, storytelling, dance, medicine, math, etc. and specifically say fighting is just one part of their culture.

    Steve Orlando's run has my favorite ever version of an Amazon contest for this very reason - most of the events are unrelated to the contestants' raw strength/speed and it's also just ridiculously fun and hilarious.

    I think Steves version is a good equalizer for Diana.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahina View Post
    In the Justice League animated series, New 52, Rebirth, and 2017 Wonder Woman movie, they got rid of Diana winning the tournament to become a emissary to man's world.

    Were you ok with this change or the contest was too important to ignore?
    With 52 they cast away all of WW's iconic trappings in exchange for generic Britney Spears as WW style trappings despite the 90s being ages ago. Either way, what they replaced it with is not nearly as compelling. With time I suspect that the iconic fare will return.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    I like the contest, but I'd rather they cut it than have her win with a huge unfair advantage. For example, in Perez's run it felt completely pointless.
    Golden Age Amazons get their powers from amazon training. Would you prefer that to make the contest fair?

  11. #11
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahina View Post
    Golden Age Amazons get their powers from amazon training. Would you prefer that to make the contest fair?
    I do really like the concept of Amazon training but I'm not sold on going full GA - the Perez lore is really affecting and made me fall in love with the character, plus I like the scale and storytelling opportunities that come with Diana's connection to the gods. If it were up to me I'd keep the goddesses' blessings for Diana and bring back training for all of the Amazons (I'd also make them much more superhuman), but that doesn't solve the issue of the contest being unfair.

    Year One and Legend of WW made it work by having Diana get her powers after she leaves, but I still prefer the non-physical events approach because the writer can do whatever they want with the characters' powers and it'll still work. Plus, again, I like what it says about Amazon culture.

  12. #12

    Default

    The way I'd do it is emphasize the Amazon training element and combine it with the godly gifts. Meaning Diana has gifts from the gods that give her great strength and speed and whatnot, but it's only because of her training that she's able to harness these gifts to their full potential.
    Diana without training has some power, and a fully trained Amazon has superhuman abilities, but it's only together that Wonder Woman is the powerhouse that she is.

    So, in regard to the Contest, Diana winning wouldn't be cheating with her powers, but rather proving she's mastered her abilities and therefore a worthy Champion. Without her training, she would never have won.
    At least that's how I would do it. I imagine that wouldn't fly for some, and everyone has their own idea of how to work this.

    As for the actual Contest...I like its presence fine, but I'm not married to it. I understand when certain adaptations skip it, if not for pacing, then figuring Diana running away to be a hero is a stronger conflict/choice than entering the Contest when she's not supposed to. I suspect for certain creators, that's the real meat of the story--not Diana proving she's the best of the Amazons, but going against her mother's wishes.
    They probably also see Diana being the only one willing to leave and fight at all as proof enough that she's the "best" Amazon.

    But the caveat to that is it presents the rest of the Amazons as callous and apathetic. That could provide interesting conflict, or it paints the Amazons as unlikable. It also leans into Diana as the "Chosen One," which can be a turn-off.

    I appreciate its presence and what it adds to the lore. But there are other interesting ideas to explore by skipping it. Narratively, there are pros and cons to keeping the Contest or erasing it.
    As long it's its handled well, it's not a deal-breaker for me either way.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,094

    Default

    The issue with the contest is that it doesn't say anything about Diana's heroism. Artemis won the contest when she and Diana were equalized and we saw how she turned out as Wonder Woman.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,762

    Default

    I'm sort of conflicted with the idea.

    I like the idea of Diana passing some sort of test to assume her role. I like the way it both makes her the official representative of her island and also how it marks the moment Diana takes iniative (entering the contest against Hippolyte's order). The fact the gods call for the contest also makes this more than "Diana ran off with her crush (Steve)"

    But making the contest equal is the rub for me. Having an origin for Diana (clay statue/Zeus' offspring) separate from Wonder Woman (divine gifts for winning contest) seems like overkill. Having an exceptional creation for Diana if she is just like the other Amazons seems a waste. But having Diana fully empowered by virtue of "birth" then makes the contest nothing more than a formality- like having Superman or Flash compete against human athletes in the Olympics.

    And while I want the Amazons to outshine the inhabitants of Man's World, I prefer Diana to be the only Amazon in the same class with top tier superheroes. So I don't want Diana's contest to have been the equivalent of Wonder Woman competing with Supergirl, Mary Marvel and Miss Martian.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Psy-lock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Hades
    Posts
    2,519

    Default

    I'm OK with erasing the contest in some versions, especially when Diana has an unfair advantage over everyone else. That's one of the problems in Perez’s origin (though Messner-Loebs fixed that part in his run).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •