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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I'm sort of conflicted with the idea.

    I like the idea of Diana passing some sort of test to assume her role. I like the way it both makes her the official representative of her island and also how it marks the moment Diana takes iniative (entering the contest against Hippolyte's order). The fact the gods call for the contest also makes this more than "Diana ran off with her crush (Steve)"

    But making the contest equal is the rub for me. Having an origin for Diana (clay statue/Zeus' offspring) separate from Wonder Woman (divine gifts for winning contest) seems like overkill. Having an exceptional creation for Diana if she is just like the other Amazons seems a waste. But having Diana fully empowered by virtue of "birth" then makes the contest nothing more than a formality- like having Superman or Flash compete against human athletes in the Olympics.

    And while I want the Amazons to outshine the inhabitants of Man's World, I prefer Diana to be the only Amazon in the same class with top tier superheroes. So I don't want Diana's contest to have been the equivalent of Wonder Woman competing with Supergirl, Mary Marvel and Miss Martian.
    I think this is a very good point, and the big issue. If Diana is born exceptional, the contest is rigged. If Diana is equal to the other Amazons, what makes Wonder Woman special when compared with the others? And as Agent Z says, the contest says nothing about Diana's character as a hero, just that she's skilled.

    The only way around it I can think of is to change the nature of the Contest. I'd make it the Kobyashi Maru for Amazons. Any Amazon who wants to leave the island has to enter a chamber and face the Contest, effectively a compressed simulation of man's world and the dangers they'll face, and the overwhelming probability of failure. The test is a trap, a rigged game by the Gods. There's no way to "win". Man's world - the world in general - is a constant battle against an endless dark.

    But Diana takes the Contest over and over again. Because she's the only Amazon who knows that the fight is what matters. The effort. The trying. And every Contest, she gets a little farther, does a little better, because the only person Diana has ever been in competition with is herself, who she was yesterday. Diana isn't trying to be The Best, she's trying to be Better. And that's why she's Wonder Woman.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatmetropolitan View Post
    I think this is a very good point, and the big issue. If Diana is born exceptional, the contest is rigged. If Diana is equal to the other Amazons, what makes Wonder Woman special when compared with the others? And as Agent Z says, the contest says nothing about Diana's character as a hero, just that she's skilled.

    The only way around it I can think of is to change the nature of the Contest. I'd make it the Kobyashi Maru for Amazons. Any Amazon who wants to leave the island has to enter a chamber and face the Contest, effectively a compressed simulation of man's world and the dangers they'll face, and the overwhelming probability of failure. The test is a trap, a rigged game by the Gods. There's no way to "win". Man's world - the world in general - is a constant battle against an endless dark.

    But Diana takes the Contest over and over again. Because she's the only Amazon who knows that the fight is what matters. The effort. The trying. And every Contest, she gets a little farther, does a little better, because the only person Diana has ever been in competition with is herself, who she was yesterday. Diana isn't trying to be The Best, she's trying to be Better. And that's why she's Wonder Woman.
    This is by far the coolest take I’ve seen on it, love this idea.

  3. #18
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    I can see why it was left out of the movie. There's already a contest of sorts--twice--in the movie, so it would be redundant. First, Diana is in contest with her fellow Amazons in their training sessions. Second, Diana has to contest with the challenge of getting to the sword and her accoutrements. So she proves herself twice. And the whole movie is her proving herself. There was no place for the formal "Contest" in that scenario.

    But I like the contest and it should really be a part of her origin. It doesn't make sense if Diana has come into her power already--but if she's just a normal Amazon when the contest happens and the contest is part of her discovering her power (given by the gods) then it adds up.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    This is by far the coolest take I’ve seen on it, love this idea.
    Thank you!

  5. #20
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    The special birth is necessary because without It,Diana is either one of the original amazons who abandoned the world or reborn through the well of souls,both groups who have a very traumatic history with Men

    Honestly,being the most skilled of a entire nation of immortal superhumans while being the youngest is already special enough for me

    Wonder Woman origin doesn't end at winning the contest,there is still her debut to the world by accomplishing whatever mission Trevor was doing before his fall(think Superman saving a plane debut),you could say that is her true final test by the goddess to see if she has what It takes

  6. #21
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    The contest should be retained -- even though she had an unfair advantage. And really, doesn't it just make more sense to send someone of her ability -- rather than a regular Amazon?

  7. #22
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    I'm okay with the Contest being omitted and Diana stealing her armor. I think Diana stealing her armor sets up the exact same narrative themes - Diana doing something against her mother's wishes - without dragging down the narrative with a lengthy Contest. I also think Diana stealing the armor sets up a more interesting dynamic between Diana/Hypolyta, i.e. Wonder Woman 2017 and Wonder Woman Bloodlines that can play into Diana's role in Man's World. And I think Diana stealing the armor sets up her innate heroism better. If Diana is the only one who wants to save Man's World, it automatically tells us about her compassion, willing to fight for others, and willing to go against a larger society to do what's right. That's what Wonder Woman is all about.

    Patty gave us a Contest in 1984. I thought it was exceptional.

  8. #23
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    The whole point of the contest is to show that amongst all the amazons, Diana is the best of the best. Stealing her equipment takes that way. It also removes a significant part of amazon culture, that is enjoying tournaments, which we already have so few of.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    The whole point of the contest is to show that amongst all the amazons, Diana is the best of the best. Stealing her equipment takes that way. It also removes a significant part of amazon culture, that is enjoying tournaments, which we already have so few of.
    The problem is that if Diana is naturally blessed with cosmic abilities (fast as Flash, strong as Superman, ...) then it is obvious without a contest who is best of the best. The Contest is only an issue if Diana is just slightly more able than the other Amazons.
    It'd be like holding a race to decide something and having Flash competing with Black Lightning (olympic athlete), Batman, and Mr Terrific. Barring some fluke with the Speed Force- the winner is a foregone conclusion.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The problem is that if Diana is naturally blessed with cosmic abilities (fast as Flash, strong as Superman, ...) then it is obvious without a contest who is best of the best. The Contest is only an issue if Diana is just slightly more able than the other Amazons.
    It'd be like holding a race to decide something and having Flash competing with Black Lightning (olympic athlete), Batman, and Mr Terrific. Barring some fluke with the Speed Force- the winner is a foregone conclusion.
    I feel like Rucka answered this problem by not having Diana be naturally blessed at the beginning but rather when she arrived in man's world. I honestly prefer Diana being a normal superhuman amazon until she wins the contest and is blessed in a grand temple by the gods visiting her before she first leaves the island. Like the contest determines who would receive the powers of the gods.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I feel like Rucka answered this problem by not having Diana be naturally blessed at the beginning but rather when she arrived in man's world. I honestly prefer Diana being a normal superhuman amazon until she wins the contest and is blessed in a grand temple by the gods visiting her before she first leaves the island. Like the contest determines who would receive the powers of the gods.
    Yeah I like that as well.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I feel like Rucka answered this problem by not having Diana be naturally blessed at the beginning but rather when she arrived in man's world. I honestly prefer Diana being a normal superhuman amazon until she wins the contest and is blessed in a grand temple by the gods visiting her before she first leaves the island. Like the contest determines who would receive the powers of the gods.
    Agree. It is the perfect take for the contest.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I feel like Rucka answered this problem by not having Diana be naturally blessed at the beginning but rather when she arrived in man's world. I honestly prefer Diana being a normal superhuman amazon until she wins the contest and is blessed in a grand temple by the gods visiting her before she first leaves the island. Like the contest determines who would receive the powers of the gods.
    Except it seems needlessly comples to give her divine origins (either demi-god status or magical clay) if we then are going to give her powers from a second divine event. If she is just a normal Amazon, she could as easily be Hippolyta's natural child (and via Zeus either).

  14. #29

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    Personally, I favor Diana having her powers/gifts from birth. Otherwise, she's just another Amazon.

    I really don't care enough about the "cheating" to take her gifts away from her.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Personally, I favor Diana having her powers/gifts from birth. Otherwise, she's just another Amazon.

    I really don't care enough about the "cheating" to take her gifts away from her.
    Same. The important part is Diana defying Hippolyta, basic protagonist stuff.

    Let's not delude ourselves into thinking Diana wouldn't win the contest or not.

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