Any D-Listers You'd Like to Overhaul / Expand Upon?

[Sandy Hausler]

can i get a suggestion? I feel like a creative challenge.

Mrs. Goldberg from The Blasters.

[Thor-Ul]

can i get a suggestion? I feel like a creative challenge.

Snapper Carr.

[Ascended]

Doctor Occult.

Ohh, deep cut. Okay. I'm not crazy familiar with the character so I dunno if this is gonna feel right, but....

Northern New England. Deep winter. Occult has been led to a small town where the residents are having the same shared nightmare. Every morning they wake up with a greater sense of dread. Nobody has seen a wild animal, or the sun, in weeks. Something is seeping up from the deep roots of the world, and more than just a tiny town in a forgotten corner of America might be at risk.

Like I said, I'm not super familiar with Occult, so I'm basically treating this like "pulp detective Dick Tracy meets Lovecraft." Except the threat won't end up being what it appears to be. There won't be a big Cthulhu monster to unsummon or an old god to appease. Though I do think I'd like to work in a brief visit from one of the Endless, if Gaiman would allow it.

Might be fun to take a pulp hero from the city and drop him in the horror of rural small towns.

And a suggestion for you....I've got two.

First, the Ray. Loved him in the 90's, wish he was still a thing. Curious where you'd take it.

Second, I might be misremembering (and apologies if I am), but I don't think I've seen a Jace Fox pitch from you here? As I recall you're a fan, so I want a Jace pitch....but I want you to go as offbeat with it as you can. Up to you to decide what 'offbeat' means. And....if you did already pitch Jace, let me know so I can dig through the thread and find it.

[lemonpeace]

Xiang Po of the New Guardians.

B'wanna Beast

I'd like to see what you'd do with Grant "Damage" Emmerson from the 90's. After your Duke pitch I feel like Grant might be in your wheelhouse

Mrs. Goldberg from The Blasters.

Snapper Carr.

lol did not expect to return to this many suggestions but I will take a crack at each of them. out visiting family right now but when I have the time to research each of these characters I'll return with pitches.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Ohh, deep cut. Okay. I'm not crazy familiar with the character so I dunno if this is gonna feel right, but....

Northern New England. Deep winter. Occult has been led to a small town where the residents are having the same shared nightmare. Every morning they wake up with a greater sense of dread. Nobody has seen a wild animal, or the sun, in weeks. Something is seeping up from the deep roots of the world, and more than just a tiny town in a forgotten corner of America might be at risk.

Like I said, I'm not super familiar with Occult, so I'm basically treating this like "pulp detective Dick Tracy meets Lovecraft." Except the threat won't end up being what it appears to be. There won't be a big Cthulhu monster to unsummon or an old god to appease. Though I do think I'd like to work in a brief visit from one of the Endless, if Gaiman would allow it.

Might be fun to take a pulp hero from the city and drop him in the horror of rural small towns.

And a suggestion for you....I've got two.

First, the Ray. Loved him in the 90's, wish he was still a thing. Curious where you'd take it.

Second, I might be misremembering (and apologies if I am), but I don't think I've seen a Jace Fox pitch from you here? As I recall you're a fan, so I want a Jace pitch....but I want you to go as offbeat with it as you can. Up to you to decide what 'offbeat' means. And....if you did already pitch Jace, let me know so I can dig through the thread and find it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I vaguely know of the Ray throught the CW (he was a guest star during the Earth X crossover) and he was a guest star in David's YJ. I'll have to do some research and get back to you.

I did pitch for Jace before but they were 4 or 5 different pitches. I'll have to find them first lol.


I'm not familiar with Doctor Occult either. Your take works as a start.

lol did not expect to return to this many suggestions but I will take a crack at each of them. out visiting family right now but when I have the time to research each of these characters I'll return with pitches.

I'm looking forward to it. You could suggest someone for me too. It could be a trade. .

[marhawkman]

lol did not expect to return to this many suggestions but I will take a crack at each of them. out visiting family right now but when I have the time to research each of these characters I'll return with pitches.

Snapper Carr.... as Cheetah's "friend"? hmmmm lots of story potential there.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Second, I might be misremembering (and apologies if I am), but I don't think I've seen a Jace Fox pitch from you here? As I recall you're a fan, so I want a Jace pitch....but I want you to go as offbeat with it as you can. Up to you to decide what 'offbeat' means. And....if you did already pitch Jace, let me know so I can dig through the thread and find it.

Here they are-

"Afterschool special"-
Jace crosses paths with the Batpack from Titans Academy as they were seperately investigating a street racing gang doing robberies. The villians are a group of Rocket Racer meets Fast and the Furious wannabes .Its a romp where Jace has to put up with Batman's self-professed biggest fans and they see him as a pretender like Azrael rather than a successor like Dick was. They would end the miniseries gaining a respect for Jace as Batman. Originally i wanted them to became Jace's equivalent to Robin but Tiffany took that role.

"Family History"-
The Gotham Knights tie in "the gilded city" created a new vigilante called the Runaway. They were active in the late 1800s and were revealed to being a woman named Vivian Foxworthy. I don't mind bringing that character in the main universe and tieing her to the current fox family.

Luke's relationship with Jace is underdeveloped so this miniseries would deal with that dynamic. Luke's new role in the current Outsider book could act as a setup for the plot and a point of contrast between the brothers. A fun gag would be 3 out of 4 of the Fox children are superheroes which leaves Tamara to call the other three (Jace, Luke, Tiffany) "The Skulk".

"Inside Man"-

This would focus on Waller trying to recruit Jace. He has looser connections to the Bat family and more of a wild card. So I thought Waller would see him as a potential asset. Jace would resist but contemplate infiltrating Waller's group in order to get the inside dirt on a potential scheme of hers. So some of the tension would be would Jace be found out or join Waller? We also can tie into Jace's past-showcasing some if his missions before he became Batman.

For those who don't know- Jace felt like a freelance spy before he became Batman VI. He was in the middle of a mission before being escorted back to Gotham by Grifter.

I'd say its similar to Priest's work on Deathstroke/Black Adam or Ridley's GCPD miniseries tonewise.

Unlike my previous two this is more of a maxiseries that could go further.

"Path not taken"
Jace does a deep cover op as the Vulture when he realizes two of his old friends from school are members of the Terrible Trio and they are looking for a third. Jace originally started as Tim Fox a minor character from the 1980s. He believed Bruce was a slum lord and ended up becoming the Vulture. So this arc uses that fact as a homage and reconciles it with Jace's new characterization and history via Ridley's retcons.

"Elseworlds"-
Jace interacts with alternate version of himself in different IDs than Batman similar to what Miles did in What if...Miles Morales? miniseries from 2022- one universe where he picked up the Soultaker after Katana's death, one where he was made into a member of the Indigo Corps and Earth 3 where he never repented and became the Vulture from the Terrible Trio.

"Robin/not robin"
Jace's original original story arc had him become a villian because he thought Bruce Wayne was a slumlord jacking up rent. So I'd probably have Bruce try and use him as an agent in order to keep an eye on him. Can this version of Jace redeem himself or would he become a bigger threat?

"Growing pains"-
Haadiyah is an old friend from Jace's past that was a reoccuring character in Second Son/I am Batman. Towards the end of the run she became a Question esque character named named Nobody- complete with Question's face's covering effect and a history with Renee Montoya.

Jace has to come to terms with her new role in his life while the Moral Authority from Jace's Fear State tie in return to tear down on the Batman of New York- both for his past victory over their previous leader and his current status as partner of the NYPD.

The Moral Authority is reformed under new version of Wrath and Scorn.

Optional Redesign-
Jace wouldn't be that big on spandex before he became Batman so he'd get a more plainclothes look. Jace would still use the cape and cowl he currently has but it would be a more once in a while thing or story specific.

examples-



Jon davis hunt's take on Apollo and Midnighter from The Wild Storm.



Spider-Woman's redesign in the Dennis Hopeless era.

[Thor-Ul]

Snapper Carr.... as Cheetah's "friend"? hmmmm lots of story potential there.

Snapper Carr had an historial as a neko-chan lover. Chettah wasn't the first catgirl he had meet.

[Ascended]

lol did not expect to return to this many suggestions but I will take a crack at each of them. out visiting family right now but when I have the time to research each of these characters I'll return with pitches.

Looking forward to it, hope you have a good visit with the fam.

Thanks for the suggestion. I vaguely know of the Ray throught the CW (he was a guest star during the Earth X crossover) and he was a guest star in David's YJ. I'll have to do some research and get back to you.

You guys and your research is making me look bad. Y'know that right? Y'all are here digging in and doing the work and I'm just taking whatever I know about the character/s and running with the first or second thought that crosses my mind!

I think once you start looking into Ray, you'll like the character. At least the Ray Terrill version from the 90's, son of the original Golden Age Ray. Written by Chris Priest, right after he changed his name I believe. Art by Joe Quesada before he became a big wig at Marvel. Damn fun book. I don't know if it aged well, I lost my copies to water damage ages ago, but the guy is ripe for a quality revision and comeback.

Here they are-

"Inside Man"-

Oh I remember that one. Didn't realize it was you! I liked this one a lot. Gives me a bit of a Green Hornet vibe (one of the greatest pulp heroes ever).

Unlike my previous two this is more of a maxiseries that could go further.

"Path not taken"

"Elseworlds"-

More Green Hornet style fun. You just might ruin me on Jace forever with this, if DC doesn't try this kind of direction out I might never be satisfied now.

I'm torn on the kind of "What If Miles Morales" type of stories. On one hand, it's cool to see a hero picking up a different mantle, but it also makes me feel like those mantles are a little less unique. Like, sure, anyone can be a Thor or a Spider or a Wolverine and it doesn't really matter who you are you'll fit the bill. And that's....kind of a double edged sword for me. Like, I absolutely adore the "anyone can wear the mask" theme with Miles, but just because Miles is a superior Spider, does that mean he'd be a great Cap or Nova? Makes me wonder what the difference is between those heroic roles y'know?

But it *is* a damn fun hook for a short mini, so I'm not against it.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

snipped for space.

Get gud homie.

I'm fond of Priest's recent series so I'm curious how his 90s series are.

Ridley's take on Jace is very grounded. So the Green Hornet vibe makes sense.

Elseworlds and the other two become more exploring the paths Jace could've walked. So I wanted that angle to ground the multiverse counterparts. Jace having the Soultaker story is built on his relationship to Katana and his desire for atonement. It's seems random but it pays off hopefully. I'd probably tweak which alternate selves pop up once I figure out who Jace is better.

Your take on What if Miles reminds me of concerns about legacies so that feels like a theme with my elseworlds pitch.

My pitch for Ray Terrill aka Ray II follows his last appearance in Orlando's run on Justice league America. Ray had a similar upbringing but ran away from home. He reemerged years later as 20-something superhero in Vanity, Oregon before being offered a spot on Batman's team.

"Outgoing" deals with Ray's life as a socially active LGBT superhero icon while reaching out to a character that is Jimmy Olsen as an incel.

"Footnote" deals with Ray's family history as Ray's father and half-brother seek him out for different reasons.

I know "everything happened" but I'm not sure if Priest's run would fit neatly. I guess some version of it will happen off screen but I think having a time travel arc is an easier way to incorporate it. I had a thought about Proffessor Zoom changing several characters's backstories to make them better heroes so that could be an arc Ray is apart off I wanna call this story and its followup "Missing moments: and " Support group".

[Sandy Hausler]

lol did not expect to return to this many suggestions but I will take a crack at each of them. out visiting family right now but when I have the time to research each of these characters I'll return with pitches.

You are a brave man.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://youngjustice.fandom.com/wiki/Halo

I'd adapt Young Justice's version of Halo as a seperate character. She's Gabrielle Daou, a Quraci refugee who was the only survivor of a suicide bomb and the chief suspect. Unlike the TV show she suffers from anterograde amnesia (short term memory loss). She lost the last 2 or 3 years of her life and has to retrace her steps to figure out who she was and who she would be.

I had another pitch where Donna was Bialyan or Quraci refugee raised by the Amazons. I'd merge that pitch with this character who returns to Bialya and faces off against Queen Bee from the YJ show. That take was the ruling queen and serves as an overarching villian.

[lemonpeace]

finally back from visiting the fam. it's not my best work imo, coming up with pitches for these character provex harder than I thought lol, but I came up with a rush lil something for B'wana Beast while I was out the country since of the options he's the hero I'm most familiar with and he's right up my alley of expertise (African heroes).

first, some table setting. this pitch is for Dominic Mndawe aka Freedom Beast and would serve as a reintroduction of the character as well as seeing him truly succeed Michael Maxwell as B'wana Beast. B'wana Beast in his original incarnation was pretty problematic, so I get the logic of DC giving him an African successor and having them take a different name. however, DC hasn't done a great job enforcing that passing of the torch and they still use B'wana Beast despite seemingly understanding his problematic nature. so I would want to go a different route by trying to have Dominic reclaim and somewhat redefine the mantle of B'wana Beast. I also want to use both his pre-N52 and post-N52 incarnations to establish a new baseline for the character. lastly I've always liked the idea of the N52 Freedom Beast being mentored by Vixen in the ways of The Red because I think Vixen could use a protégé and he fits the bill. I'd also like to incorporate elements of Sangoma lore into this version of B'wana Beast but I would have to ponder further on how exactly. given all this, I present...

B'wana Beast: Red Son Rising

we start with the death of Freedom Beast. following the events of Beast World: Waller Rising, the network of african heroes Batwing, Vixen, and Deadeye established officially form a new incarnation of The Kingdom with the original Freedom Beast as a member of their ranks. for a rough idea of how I would structure that organization see my RAINMAKER pitch on page 17, tho I may need to go back and do a revamp on it given recent events. This Freedom Beast is essentially the pre-N52 version of Dominic Mndawe, however he in our contemporary timeline he isn't killed by prometheus and instead he establishs the Mndawe Foundation and creates a rich life for his family (a wife and son) while doing his duties as Freedom Beast. our story follows his son, Dominic Kenboya "Ken" Mndawe, who is approached by Vixen following the death of his father and Mike Maxwell at the hands of The Impundulu; a new villain operating out of Monster Rock who controls The Cult of Urz and drains "The Red" from living creatures through blood drinking and heart eating. Ken is the N52 version of Freedom Beast we met in Midnighter & Apollo, which was when he being trained by his father to be the next Freedom Beast (hence the suit and powers he had back then). what follows is Ken donning his suit and his journey of revenge against Impundulu to avenge his father. along the way he's acompanied by Vixen who tries to mentor him as he processes his grief, discovers who he is as a hero, and ultimately take over the role not as Freedom Beast but as the one and only B'wana Beast. the title i posit his father aka the original Freedom Beast should've taken.

here's the resulting ecosystem for B'wana Beast I'd want to arrive at:

core team:
B'wana Beast/Dominic "Ken" Mndawe II
Vixen (mentor)
Congorilla (exorcised of the consciousness of Congo Bill and Ken's companion)

supporting characters:
Dr. Mist
Impala/Charles Mokose
Damage/Ethan Avery
Freedom Beast/Dominic Mndawe (early cameo/flashbacks)
Mike Maxwell (early cameo/flashbacks)

main villains:
The Impundulu (Ken's archenemy, based heavily on the vampiric "Lightning Bird" of South African mythology)
Enchidna, the mother of monsters (Impundulu's right hand)
The Cult of Urz (worshippers of the dark god, Urzkartaga, enhanced by the bio-fusion powers of Enchidna)
Congo Bill (separated from Congorilla and now a cultist for the Cult of Urz)

[lemonpeace]

I'll get to the other 4 pitches eventually, hopefully they'll be better than the B'wana Beast pitch.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

finally back from visiting the fam. it's not my best work imo, coming up with pitches these character were harder than I thought lol, but I came up with a rush lil something for B'wana Beast while I was out the country since of the options he's the hero I'm most familiar with and he's right up my alley of expertise (African heroes).

first, some table setting. this pitch is for Dominic Mndawe aka Freedom Beast and would serve as a reintroduction of the character as well as seeing him truly succeed Michael Maxwell as B'wana Beast. B'wana Beast in his original incarnation was pretty problematic, so I get the logic of DC giving him an African successor and having them take a different name. however, DC hasn't done a great job enforcing that passing of the torch and they still use B'wana Beast despite seemingly understanding his problematic nature. so I would want to go a different route by trying to have Dominic reclaim and somewhat redefine the mantle of B'wana Beast. I also want to use both his pre-N52 and post-N52 incarnations to establish a new baseline for the character. lastly I've always liked the idea of the N52 Freedom Beast being mentored by Vixen in the ways of The Red because I think Vixen could use a protégé and he fits the bill. given all this, I present...

B'wana Beast: Red Son Rising

we start with the death of Freedom Beast. following the events of Beast World: Waller Rising, the network of african heroes Batwing, Vixen, and Deadeye established officially form a new incarnation of The Kingdom with the original Freedom Beast as a member of their ranks. for a rough idea of how I would structure that organization see my RAINMAKER pitch on page 17, tho I may need to go back and do a revamp on it given recent events. This Freedom Beast is essentially the pre-N52 version of Dominic Mndawe, however he in our contemporary timeline he isn't killed by prometheus and instead he establishs the Mndawe Foundation and creates a rich life for his family (a wife and son) while doing his duties as Freedom Beast. our story follows his son, Dominic Kenboya "Ken" Mndawe, who is approached by Vixen following the death of his father and Mike Maxwell at the hands of The Impundulu; a new villain operating out of Monster Rock who controls The Cult of Urz and drains "The Red" from living creatures through blood drinking and heart eating. Ken is the N52 version of Freedom Beast we met in Midnighter & Apollo, which was when he being trained by his father to be the next Freedom Beast (hence the suit and powers he had back then). what follows is Ken donning his suit and his journey of revenge against Impundulu to avenge his father. along the way he's acompanied by Vixen who tries to mentor him as he processes his grief, discovers who he is as a hero, and ultimately take over the role not as Freedom Beast but as the one and only B'wana Beast. the title i posit his father aka the original Freedom Beast should've taken.

here's the resulting ecosystem for B'wana Beast I'd want to arrive at:

core team:
B'wana Beast/Dominic "Ken" Mndawe II
Vixen (mentor)
Congorilla (exorcised of the consciousness of Congo Bill and Ken's companion)

supporting characters:
Dr. Mist
Impala/Charles Mokose
Damage/Ethan Avery
Freedom Beast/Dominic Mndawe (early cameo/flashbacks)
Mike Maxwell (early cameo/flashbacks)

main villains:
The Impundulu
Enchidna, the mother of monsters (Impundulu's right hand)
The Cult of Urz (worshippers of the dark god, Urzkartaga, enhanced by the bio-fusion powers of Enchidna)
Congo Bill (separated from Congorilla and now a cultist for the Cult of Urz)

Great take. You are definitely top tier in this thread. We need to get you in DC.