Lazarus Planet: Revenge of the Gods

[bardkeep]

Jiminez has Paradise Lost, where Diana travels to a world that Queen Clea and villany inc have conquered

Orlando has the annual #4 against the dark fates

Eric Luke has Pandora Virus etc

Gail Simone has the space invaders arc

And each of theses runs has more awesome stories that fit this rule, these were just my favorites

Tbh the only one of those stories that's highly regarded/considered a classic is Paradise Lost and its legacy comes almost entirely from the Amazon civil war.

The others are decent but not remembered. With Gail's run in particular the stock opinion is "The Circle was great and then it tanked," which I don't think is fair (I really enjoyed the Khund arc and found lots of things to like throughout) but I definitely think The Circle was its creative peak. It's not that every non-myth story is bad (I should've phrased that differently in my question), it's just that none of them come even close to the likes of Gods and Mortals or Eyes of the Gorgon.

Also, let me clarify that I'm not saying "WW writers should only do myth stories." I'd love to see a story that doesn't touch the gods at all but still works, and I'm really looking forward to Tom King's run because it seems like he's trying something different. I'm just not writing off myth stuff for the long or even medium-term because it's an infinite well to tap. Trial of the Amazons and the current event make it all feel stale beyond use, but just within the past year we got some excellent, widely-acclaimed Amazon lore stories in Stephanie Williams' Nubia series and a future classic that was all myth in Historia.

[Alpha]

Yes, people don't consider this highly regarded, that's what i said. I love those stories, but people here don't give them any recognition.

And I was confusing Paradise Lost with Land of the Lost.

[Koriand'r]

This is the assumption that evil-stepmother Hera is, even without Histora, a well written character. She is not. Using characters like Cyber or Clea requires effort and personal interest on the part of the writer, which we often don't see. Unironically, Conrad and Cloon also didn't bother using her older rouges (outside of Psycho) despite several people here claiming how well they know her lore. Fact of matter to me is that most writers these days follow trends, not create them, so you're going to get lots of myth stories in Diana's world because that's a trend. results may vary.

I think Guy McNight's said this best somewhere else. That writers often turn their brains off when writing Diana. They don't use their best idea's because its Wonder Woman, its not like they're writing a big character like Harley or Batman or Superman. I find it funny that Superman gets the big space gladiator/planet hulk like story ripped right out of a mythic epic meanwhile Diana, god-like amazon warrior princess she is, hasn't even been thought of having something like that. Like I'm not dissing the Superman story. But's weird that writers seem to have so much fun playing in other character's worlds building lore and history but suddenly get really talentless around Diana.

I DO want Diana's syfy cosmic side to come out more and blend with her mythic elements because I think it works so well. But that requires interest and effort to use her rouges that aren't myth based, and I just don't see it.

Cloonrad brought back Image Maker and paired him with Psycho. They used Gundra and the Valkyries, Wonder Man Dane from Elysium, Bat-Mite and Mxyzptlk, Deadman, Calculator, etc. and it was all met with boredom from readers due to "lack of high stakes". I think that may be why writers go back to god well so often, they think they're all WW fans are interested in seeing.

How many times can the gods be killed off by some threat and then saved by Wonder Woman? How many schemes and betrayals can they have? How often can Themyscira be invaded? It's all been done and re-done and now it's well done, tough and dry.

To be clear I don't dislike mythology, I'm just tired of seeing it over and over again while other possible avenues remain unexplored.

[WonderLight789]

Cloonrad brought back Image Maker and paired him with Psycho. They used Gundra and the Valkyries, Wonder Man Dane from Elysium, Bat-Mite and Mxyzptlk, Deadman, Calculator, etc. and it was all met with boredom from readers due to "lack of high stakes". I think that may be why writers go back to god well so often, they think they're all WW fans are interested in seeing.

How many times can the gods be killed off by some threat and then saved by Wonder Woman? How many schemes and betrayals can they have? How often can Themyscira be invaded? It's all been done and re-done and now it's well done, tough and dry.

To be clear I don't dislike mythology, I'm just tired of seeing it over and over again while other possible avenues remain unexplored.

The whole run has lacked high stakes. Even the arcs with the Gods have been underwhelming in most runs since 2011. And WW herself feels underwhelming. always needing the juice of somebody else's power, to fight these Gods that don't even feel that powerful. as they have almost 0 feats and character development.

[Sebastianne]

Ok, this is finally over.
The main story is resolved in a nonsensical way, repeating low points, with characters doing nothing (Ares, Siggy, Yara, Cheetah, The Captain and all the Gods) and things with dire explanations (Eros' hand, The wizard Shazam, etc.) Boring, long, poorly handled, like I said a missed opportunity to see the Gods in a large scale mini-event. G Willow Wilson is failed once again.
On the other hand, I did enjoy the back up story in Themyscira written by Cloonrad and drawn by Alitha Martinez, although its resolution is not the best with a Hades that simply retires, I think it has been by far the best of this mini event. By the way, Aphrodite appears as an ally of Hera in the main story of GWW and in turn as an ally of Hippolyta along with the other patrons in the back up story of Cloonrad... -rolleyes-.
Regarding the other back up story, I love the fact that it is Hippolyta who empowers Mary along with other goddesses, just as she was in the pre-Crisis.
And that's it! Enough is enough!

[Shimbo]

Yeah, this landed with the excitement and finality of a wet fart. Diana and Hera get all glowy glowy and Diana flies at her and Hera does...something, and then she loses? Gives up? Evenly matched? What? So underwhelming.

Mary getting empowered by the goddesses is dope, though. Hippolyta as a goddess coming in clutch lol.

[WonderLight789]

If gww thinks she succeeded wirth her second chance at WW, she better thinks twice. She failed just as hard as the first time. Which actually makes it worse, since she made the same mistakes as the first time, proving she learned nothing after all this years. Probably didn't care to do any real research, just like during her first arc.

[Primal Slayer]

The only good part of this was the last 3 pages that included Billy/Mary.

Mary getting her powers from the Goddesses that are never around...of course made no sense (apart from Shazam of it all) so they could've set that up better.

Diana/Heras "battle" was the weakest thing Ive seen in awhile. Just a simple blast and thats all?

[HestiasHearth]

Tbh the only one of those stories that's highly regarded/considered a classic is Paradise Lost and its legacy comes almost entirely from the Amazon civil war.

I had no idea that Jimenez'/Perez' Paradise Island Lost was considered a highly regarded classic...

Also, I definitely agree with the sentiment of wanting a little break from the myth-based stories, and wanting writers to explore Diana's non-mythology-based rogues as well as place her at the center of grand cosmic events and epic stories that are not about gods. I LOVE the gods and the monsters from Greek myth, and I hope they always are a part of WW, but I want those stories to feel impactful. I am ready for Adjudicator, Queen Clea, Angle Man, and Zara to get the Flash's Rogues treatment and become badass and scary.

[Frank]

"I heed not your bro code!"

[OBrianTallent]

I dont think it's necessarily "high stakes" that is needed (well maybe for something like Revenge of the Gods it is) but for general stories...they just need depth. High Stakes are life and death, world ending etc. We've actually had high stakes....Hera and Shazam killed Zeus and took the throne of Olympus. That's pretty high stakes, there was just no depth to it. Why did she do it? Reasons. How did Wonder Woman win? Reasons. A fair amount of flash and bang but no boom. Which, to be honest, a fair amount of modern writers do no know how to write depth into their stories...it's all video game story boarding. Granted, comic books have lost a decent amount of pages for exploration and exposition of story. Likewise, when we do get writers who treat monthly books like chapters of an overarching story (as it should be) modern readers complain about the length and time it takes to get the story out. Look at some of the most popular runs in comics history...New Teen Titans by Wolfman and Perez, X-Men by Claremont with Claremont being the master of layering plot and details month after month.
Another problem that has worked against Revenge is the artists used. Not that they are bad at all, but if they do not have the ability or eye to see the layout that best suits and conveys the story, they will miss depicting some of the best possible layouts. While they may make pretty drawings, they dont convey the story well or convey the action or emotions well. This has been a problem with the Wonder Woman books of late as many of the artists used aren't either as seasoned or as talented as they should be to convey the needs of the story (with rare exception.)
None of this is necessarily entirely the fault of the writers and or artists...that's what an editor and assistant editor is supposed to be doing but with as much axing as has gone on at DC are the editors left even able to do an adequate job of that....likewise, they may not even have that ability to do so themselves. Wonder Woman should be considered on the same level a book as Superman, Action, Batman and Detective...but those are books that make money, Wonder Woman doesn't make that kind of money so they dont have the budget to hire those types of creators. The old adage of you have to spend money to make money is important and it seems that someone finally figured it out and as divisive a decision as it has been Tom King and Daniel Sampere are those types of creators. Just my opinion, but I stand by it.

[Stanlos]

The only good part of this was the last 3 pages that included Billy/Mary.

Mary getting her powers from the Goddesses that are never around...of course made no sense (apart from Shazam of it all) so they could've set that up better.

Diana/Heras "battle" was the weakest thing Ive seen in awhile. Just a simple blast and thats all?

Would you say that Diana and the Gods came across better during the short Simonson run featuring the Shattered God?

[Stanlos]

I dont think it's necessarily "high stakes" that is needed (well maybe for something like Revenge of the Gods it is) but for general stories...they just need depth. High Stakes are life and death, world ending etc. We've actually had high stakes....Hera and Shazam killed Zeus and took the throne of Olympus. That's pretty high stakes, there was just no depth to it. Why did she do it? Reasons. How did Wonder Woman win? Reasons. A fair amount of flash and bang but no boom. Which, to be honest, a fair amount of modern writers do no know how to write depth into their stories...it's all video game story boarding. Granted, comic books have lost a decent amount of pages for exploration and exposition of story. Likewise, when we do get writers who treat monthly books like chapters of an overarching story (as it should be) modern readers complain about the length and time it takes to get the story out. Look at some of the most popular runs in comics history...New Teen Titans by Wolfman and Perez, X-Men by Claremont with Claremont being the master of layering plot and details month after month.
Another problem that has worked against Revenge is the artists used. Not that they are bad at all, but if they do not have the ability or eye to see the layout that best suits and conveys the story, they will miss depicting some of the best possible layouts. While they may make pretty drawings, they dont convey the story well or convey the action or emotions well. This has been a problem with the Wonder Woman books of late as many of the artists used aren't either as seasoned or as talented as they should be to convey the needs of the story (with rare exception.)
None of this is necessarily entirely the fault of the writers and or artists...that's what an editor and assistant editor is supposed to be doing but with as much axing as has gone on at DC are the editors left even able to do an adequate job of that....likewise, they may not even have that ability to do so themselves. Wonder Woman should be considered on the same level a book as Superman, Action, Batman and Detective...but those are books that make money, Wonder Woman doesn't make that kind of money so they dont have the budget to hire those types of creators. The old adage of you have to spend money to make money is important and it seems that someone finally figured it out and as divisive a decision as it has been Tom King and Daniel Sampere are those types of creators. Just my opinion, but I stand by it.

One thing I despise is the narrative that WW doesn't and can't make money. The formula to make money is known and yet DC refuses to give the book the same treatment. My fervent hope is that with that DiDidiot and Johns gone, the new regime will do it. I think we are seeing the start of that but unfortunately we are still in the poopadoop quagmire left by the prior regime. Hopefully once this new status quo is set, TPTB at DC will welcome high profile superstar artists to the book and not at reduced comp or whatever and will take the risks they repeatedly take on Bats and Supes (each of whom have multiple extended runs with Jim Lee art support; each of whom got special projects by writers who professed to love the IP)

[warzon]

Ok soooooooo since Hippolyta is giving out powers and bless Mary with the flight of zephyrus and the invunerability of aurora wjy not give these same abilities to the Amazons.

[OBrianTallent]

One thing I despise is the narrative that WW doesn't and can't make money. The formula to make money is known and yet DC refuses to give the book the same treatment. My fervent hope is that with that DiDidiot and Johns gone, the new regime will do it. I think we are seeing the start of that but unfortunately we are still in the poopadoop quagmire left by the prior regime. Hopefully once this new status quo is set, TPTB at DC will welcome high profile superstar artists to the book and not at reduced comp or whatever and will take the risks they repeatedly take on Bats and Supes (each of whom have multiple extended runs with Jim Lee art support; each of whom got special projects by writers who professed to love the IP)

I agree completely. The reason Wonder Woman isn't making money is because of the choices the editors make on who to put on the book....in part. The other part is that there's so much disparity as to who Wonder Woman is that writers are kind of...almost scared off from her. Case in point, Tom Kind didn't agree to do Wonder Woman until George Perez's memorial service and said that George had to convince him to write her book. Even George had to be convinced to take her book (to keep a disparaging viewpoint from being written into her story.) It's rare...and I can't think of any creator who has ever said they regret their run unless it's to say they wanted to do more.
However, by the same token, there's been creators who take on the series that really should have done much better than they did. Gail Simone who has discussed editorial interference. G. Willow Wilson I would have expected so much better from but she wrote the co-stars with more care, concern and energy than she did Diana herself. Likewise she had Cary Nord on art (for some of it.) Cary is an amazing artist, but he drew Diana so waifish. She did have Xermanico whom I thought was exceptional and man would I have loved to see him stick around. James Robinson...the very same James Robinson who made Starman such a stellar awesome and amazing book....just tanked....and tanked....and tanked. There's been others who could have and should have done better. Another issue that has plagued Wonder Woman of late has been the round robin of artists. Comics are part story and part art and a lot of times, people pick up a book because the art is cool, they stay because the story draws them in, but if there's a big shift in the art, it will push them right back out.
At least now with Tom King and Daniel Sampere, we have a chance of something really great (or really tragic...it just depends if we get Grayson/Supergirl King or HiC King.) And Sampere on art is one of the top artists at DC right now, hopefully he can maintain a monthly schedule (and with what seems like a huge lead time, I can't see why not.) Maybe we will finally get a Wonder Woman book that deserves to be a mega seller.