Lazarus Planet: Revenge of the Gods

[Frontier]

I've always been saying they should spend a few years just focusing on Diana's Rogues Gallery and not on her dealing with whatever nonsense the Gods are cooking up.

[Perseus]

I promise you the gods are not the issue here.

[WonderLight789]

I promise you the gods are not the issue here.

Very well said. The writing is the problem. And Diana suffers from this often, even in stories where the gods aren't involved.

[Perseus]

Very well said. The writing is the problem. And Diana suffers from this often, even in stories where the gods aren't involved.

Yeah, thinking that this quality of storytelling will just go away if the Gods did is very blind to me. You are allowed to not like the mythology aspect of Diana, it's whatever to me, but let's not pretend it's because they are using the Gods and not like Blue Snowman or Clea that it's a poor story.

[WonderLight789]

Yeah, thinking that this quality of storytelling will just go away if the Gods did is very blind to me. You are allowed to not like the mythology aspect of Diana, it's whatever to me, but let's not pretend it's because they are using the Gods and not like Blue Snowman or Clea that it's a poor story.

Indeed. Actually if this is the quality of wroting she will continue to get. I am glad the rest of her original villains aren't usded much. At least they are safe from that trash. God knows poor Cheetah would love to be in their position, lol.

[Gaius]

I've always been saying they should spend a few years just focusing on Diana's Rogues Gallery and not on her dealing with whatever nonsense the Gods are cooking up.

What Masterwitcher said pretty much gets at the point. It's bad/unengaging writing that's the problem. "Original" rogues gallery vs. Gods is a matter of personal preference.

That this is coming only somewhat soon-ish after the myth-heavy Historia, which was acclaimed, kind of points to that. I mean there's even been posts here saying this story being seen as a step down in comparison with it's creative decisions.

[Agent Z]

Hwo many people here would you say have read more than 8 stories written by Marston?

You're seriously asking this question on a Wonder Woman internet forum where Marston is discussed frequently?

[Koriand'r]

I promise you the gods are not the issue here.

They kind of are though. They're featured in almost every Wonderverse event and the different versions compete with each other. There are people who automatically dislike evil stepmother Hera because she contradicts Historia so of course they'd go into Revenge less than enthusiastically. Meanwhile Queen Clea appears every couple decades or so. We have a great reinvention of Doctor Cyber that hasn't been since. The gods are way overused and I've read more than 8 Marston stories.

[Alpha]

You're seriously asking this question on a Wonder Woman internet forum where Marston is discussed frequently?

Most people here haven't. They might have read a handful of his stories, and all they know besides that is what other people say in the internet.

That's why they talk about "amazon training giving you super strength" which isn't at all what was in his stories, and they use the cover of Wonder Woman 21 as a power feat of Diana moving the sun with her strength, even though in the actual story it's the plane that moves the sun.

[Alpha]

What Masterwitcher said pretty much gets at the point. It's bad/unengaging writing that's the problem. "Original" rogues gallery vs. Gods is a matter of personal preference.

That this is coming only somewhat soon-ish after the myth-heavy Historia, which was acclaimed, kind of points to that. I mean there's even been posts here saying this story being seen as a step down in comparison with it's creative decisions.

This isn't just about rogues gallery. It's her worldbuilding in general. The only places in the DC universe at large that are regularly used in Wonder Woman comics come from Greek Mythology. Look at something like All star Superman and all the corners of the DC universe it explores that come directly from Superman comics. If you did that with Wonder Woman, most writers would have Tartarus instead of Bizarroworld. It would be about the greek fates, the river nyx, etc.

That's the problem with how Greek mythology is used. Most writers (even the "good ones") don't take any effort to create or develop the universe of Wonder Woman, instead they go recycle greek myths used every hear in dozens of other mainstream content.

[Psy-lock]

Most people here haven't. They might have read a handful of his stories, and all they know besides that is what other people say in the internet.

That's why they talk about "amazon training giving you super strength" which isn't at all what was in his stories, and they use the cover of Wonder Woman 21 as a power feat of Diana moving the sun with her strength, even though in the actual story it's the plane that moves the sun.

Just because some people don't remember all the details about the 100+ issues Marston wrote, doesn't mean they haven't read more than 8 issues

[Alpha]

"Amazon training" isn't a detail that people misremember. It's something somebody made up because they only skimmed through screenshots of some comics. A basic reading of 20 issues should be more than enough to understand how super strength works in the Marston era. It's the equivalent of somebody watching 20 minutes of Star Wars and saying The Force is some kind of cult

How about the fact that they never particularly discuss the Holliday Girls or Etta Candy, even though they were integral parts of her stories in the 40s. Not as silly gags like Jimmy Olsen, but as a direct representation of Diana's philosophy and the primary example of how she is actively changing society.

[Perseus]

They kind of are though. They're featured in almost every Wonderverse event and the different versions compete with each other. There are people who automatically dislike evil stepmother Hera because she contradicts Historia so of course they'd go into Revenge less than enthusiastically. Meanwhile Queen Clea appears every couple decades or so. We have a great reinvention of Doctor Cyber that hasn't been since. The gods are way overused and I've read more than 8 Marston stories.

This is the assumption that evil-stepmother Hera is, even without Histora, a well written character. She is not. Using characters like Cyber or Clea requires effort and personal interest on the part of the writer, which we often don't see. Unironically, Conrad and Cloon also didn't bother using her older rouges (outside of Psycho) despite several people here claiming how well they know her lore. Fact of matter to me is that most writers these days follow trends, not create them, so you're going to get lots of myth stories in Diana's world because that's a trend. results may vary.

I think Guy McNight's said this best somewhere else. That writers often turn their brains off when writing Diana. They don't use their best idea's because its Wonder Woman, its not like they're writing a big character like Harley or Batman or Superman. I find it funny that Superman gets the big space gladiator/planet hulk like story ripped right out of a mythic epic meanwhile Diana, god-like amazon warrior princess she is, hasn't even been thought of having something like that. Like I'm not dissing the Superman story. But's weird that writers seem to have so much fun playing in other character's worlds building lore and history but suddenly get really talentless around Diana.

I DO want Diana's syfy cosmic side to come out more and blend with her mythic elements because I think it works so well. But that requires interest and effort to use her rouges that aren't myth based, and I just don't see it.

[Perseus]

Most people here haven't. They might have read a handful of his stories, and all they know besides that is what other people say in the internet.

That's why they talk about "amazon training giving you super strength" which isn't at all what was in his stories, and they use the cover of Wonder Woman 21 as a power feat of Diana moving the sun with her strength, even though in the actual story it's the plane that moves the sun.

Who is holding the lasso that is wrapped around the sun which allows it to get moved?

[Perseus]

This isn't just about rogues gallery. It's her worldbuilding in general. The only places in the DC universe at large that are regularly used in Wonder Woman comics come from Greek Mythology. Look at something like All star Superman and all the corners of the DC universe it explores that come directly from Superman comics. If you did that with Wonder Woman, most writers would have Tartarus instead of Bizarroworld. It would be about the greek fates, the river nyx, etc.

That's the problem with how Greek mythology is used. Most writers (even the "good ones") don't take any effort to create or develop the universe of Wonder Woman, instead they go recycle greek myths used every hear in dozens of other mainstream content.

Alpha, Diana is an amazon. Her world is steeped in Greek myth by its very nature. So what if it's Tartarus and about The Fates or the River Styx. Fate is a common theme in storytelling, I happen to like seeing how people manage to bring in the actual personifications of them into the narrative. Tartarus is also really cool, its a place and an actual being, yet I haven't seen one writer use it well in any media let alone Diana's world.

I feel like, in general not you in particular, all this anti-mythology sentiment comes from a misdirection of problems. The writing and storytelling of a lot of Diana's runs so far have been blatantly bad, bland, boring, and uninspired. I see the problem on the writers for utilizing her world, which yes does use mythology, very poorly. But, others seemingly blame just the mythology. As if there is nothing we could possibly use or that they aren't important or interesting aspects of her lore despite being the foundations and yknow surviving for thousands of years. Myths are just tools for storytelling, having Zeus in a story doesn't make it bad, it's how he's used. Would you agree?