How would you do a Hawkman movie?

[godisawesome]

Okay… just using what I saw in Black Adam with some other ideas:

It starts simply enough, with the JSA finding out about a plot by Vandal Savage and Felix Faust to open up the Underworld for an army of conquest/Vandal’s favorite wife. There’s some humor within this evil alliance and with Hawkman against them - Felix knows he’s doomed to damnation and a permanent death if he doesn’t carry out his plan, while Vandal is barred entirely from both, and while this makes Felix an absolutely desperate foe easily intimidated by threats of killing him and sending him to hell “early,” Vandal is absolutely fearless and just plain *done* with everything, and has a humorous history with Hawkman.

The reason behind some of that Hawkman’s easy bravado and ease with the idea of dying was because he and Hawkgirl *have* died without finding each other before, and while the love is immeasurable, the pain of one of them watching the other die after a too-brief reunion is excruciating; Carter is fine with the idea of not going through that pain again in this life…

So when he sees Kendra Saunders among a Doctors Without Borders unit deployed to the region and then recognizes as Hawkgirl’s reincarnation her mid-flirty conversation, he has a full blown panic attack, and is doing his best for most of the film to avoid contact with her at all, even as she is uncovering some of her own gear when Savage captures her and frees herself.

Part of the conflict of the film would be that as the two heroes get their bearing and backstory straight, and deal with the interpersonal conflict caused by that, Savage offers to free them from their curse and Faust offers to permanently kill off Hawkwoman’s reincarnation soul before it fully merges with Kendra.

So while the external conflict would be a driving action for the villains, the main attraction would instead be the romance and desperation to escape tragedy for our heroes.

[Zero Hunter]

Katar Hol and his wife Shayera Hol chase the criminal Hath-Set from their world Thanagar. Hath-Set had killed their son which is why they would follow him so far. In a battle over Earth both ships are damaged and crash. After a few years of searching they finally find Hath-Set as he and his cult are performing a ritual using the Amulet of Anubis to try and make himself immortal. They fight and in the process all 3 are mortally wounded just as the spell takes effect which throws them into an endless cycle of reincarnation. We then Pick up with modern day archeologist Carter Hall having dreams and nightmares of his past lives which set in motion him discovering the ancient Thanagarian tech and becoming Hawkman. He is attacked by Hath-Set who has also been reborn as Kristopher Roderic in the modern time and they battle. Roderic tells Hall as he lays dying that the cycle will never end and they have killed each other dozens of time each and he will see him again. The movie ends in psychiatric hospital with a patient named Kendra Saunders who has been there since she was a teen suffering from visions and dellusions. She sits in her room sedated because of violent outbursts she has been having the last few weeks wrhn she suddenly calms down and says one word. Carter.

[Ascended]

I don't think that is a good idea. Even if the concept of "god was an astronaut" was popular in the past, today is seen as a form of disrespect non occidental cultures.

Oh I wouldn't push the idea that the Hawks or Thanagar were the inspiration for Egyptian mythology. That never made sense to me, as we have Greek and Norse gods running about the DCU, as well as demons and angels and djinn and all manner of divine beings. Besides, Thanagar didn't have gods, they had devils, and nothing I know about Egyptian myth fits the likes of Ominar Syn.

The Hawks arriving with big wings and a super vague resemblance to Egyptian deity would just be a coincidence that puts the Hawks on the throne for a few years until they're betrayed, cursed, and killed.

Honestly, I don't know if Hawkworld can be adapted right now, in this new DCGunn era. For start, it is a very grim story , more akin to what Snyder had built.

Hawkworld is a little dark, sure, but the worst excesses can be left out easily enough. Besides, if every DC movie going forward is going to be cut from the same cloth regardless of who the movie is about, then nobody has learned the lessons of the DCEU.

Could be. But even if the old DCEU is dead, Hawkman still will be Aldis Hodge.

Like I said, I haven't seen Black Adam so I can't comment on how he handles the role. If he's good enough, I keep him. But if I get to dump the DCEU and start fresh then dude better be "Chris Reeve playing Superman" good or he's looking for a new role, and the internet can just eat it. And I'd cast someone who looks/is Egyptian because that always made sense to me with the Hawks, not because a handful of people on the internet will get fake outraged if I don't. That sort of noise is remarkably easy to market around if you don't panic and have any common sense.

Personaly, I think the movie should be an origin story for Hawkgirl.

I actually prefer Hawkgirl to Man so I'd be cool with that. Shayera's the best but Kendra isn't bad either!

[Thor-Ul]

The Hawks arriving with big wings and a super vague resemblance to Egyptian deity would just be a coincidence that puts the Hawks on the throne for a few years until they're betrayed, cursed, and killed.

Well, that is the problem, putting them on a throne. It had colonialist subtetx than can be problematic. Why do you think the aspect o Theo Adam has been erased out of Black Adam?

Hawkworld is a little dark, sure, but the worst excesses can be left out easily enough. Besides, if every DC movie going forward is going to be cut from the same cloth regardless of who the movie is about, then nobody has learned the lessons of the DCEU.

Yeah, it is true. Most of the darkest aspects of Hawkworld can be sanitized for an adaptation. The problem that suffocatting grimmness and darkness was what make Hawkworld such a high note. A cleaned out version... well, I don't think it wouold be satisfactory.

Like I said, I haven't seen Black Adam so I can't comment on how he handles the role. If he's good enough, I keep him. But if I get to dump the DCEU and start fresh then dude better be "Chris Reeve playing Superman" good or he's looking for a new role, and the internet can just eat it. And I'd cast someone who looks/is Egyptian because that always made sense to me with the Hawks, not because a handful of people on the internet will get fake outraged if I don't. That sort of noise is remarkably easy to market around if you don't panic and have any common sense.

Right now I think you only could cast an african american as Hawkman.

I actually prefer Hawkgirl to Man so I'd be cool with that. Shayera's the best but Kendra isn't bad either!

Hawkgirl, Hawkwoman, she would be basically the McGuffin of the history, if I could make some decision on the subject.

[Primal Slayer]

Reincarnation would be a MUST.

Probably do the thansgar space cop hunting down someone. Either he/Shayera get hit by a black hole or space that transports them to ancient Egypt or have it start out that long ago.

First arc is them getting to the enemy, failing, and being cursed with Reincarnation. We'd do flashes of them throughout history before we get to the most recent Reincarnation. Just the basic groundwork

[DrNewGod]

I'd make a period piece of it. Indiana Jones-esque, yes. You could even keep the race bending and make it different from other Indy clones.

[Ascended]

Well, that is the problem, putting them on a throne. It had colonialist subtetx than can be problematic.

Yeah, it is true. Most of the darkest aspects of Hawkworld can be sanitized for an adaptation. The problem that suffocatting grimmness and darkness was what make Hawkworld such a high note. A cleaned out version... well, I don't think it wouold be satisfactory.

Ah you worry for nothing my friend. Anything can end up being offensive garbage if the people making it are short sighted. The biggest difference between Superman being an offensive white savior and an inspiring example of the immigrant experience is quality. Whoever makes this hypothetical Hawkworld film only has to sit back for a minute and think things through, and they'll easily see and avoid the potential pitfalls, all of which are only hypotheticals that would only happen in a worst case "we hired *all* the wrong people!" scenario.

Besides, folks often forget that a lot of Thanagarian culture isn't supposed to be an example to follow, it's often supposed to be awful, barbaric, and cruel. Their culture is meant to be inferior to ours (so we can all be proud of being human), which is part of why the Hawks fall in love with earth in the first place. Thanagar worshipped devils, they're not meant to be role models.

And audiences love jerk anti-heroes. Look at how successful Andor is, that guy has killed friends in cold blood just to cover his own ass, and people love him. Katar can be an *******, and as long as the writers make him the right kind of *******, people will eat it up. Just a little nicer to Shay, early on. Just a few less corrupt crimes in his wake.

Right now I think you only could cast an african american as Hawkman.

Again, not actually a problem if the people in charge think it through and get in front of it. For one thing, it's Hawkman. Nobody really cares. For another, from what I hear the actor did a solid job but didn't knock it out of the park enough for audiences to be attached. A handful of folks would bitch about recasting but it's not gonna amount to anything. And the sad cold truth is, people would only really complain if you recast with a white guy. And since I'd be casting someone who's Egyptian, that wouldn't be an issue.

[Psy-lock]

I'd just adapt the first issue of Flash Comics (maybe with some elements from the Brightest Day), no need to overcomplicate things: Carter meets Shiera or Kendra, she becomes Hawkgirl, and the two fight Hath-Set. Movie two would focus on the Gentelman Ghost, and movie three would introduce Thanagar.

[bat39]

I get that. We all have our favorites. My first introduction to the Hawks was the origin story from the Super Powers Collection Collector's Box that featured the Thanagarian version. That said, you could still easily fit Carter in this version of the mythos. Just have him be an in-between reincarnation life that existed in the '40s who was an archeologist.

Fair enough.

My introduction to the Hawks was through Hawkgirl in the cartoon, so I'm attached to the Thanagarian backstory for her. When it comes to Hawkman though, I've usually only been exposed to him on the JSA (where it's Carter) and I've read parts of Johns and Venditti runs which do a phenomenal job on the reincarnation aspect.

Katar Hol and his wife Shayera Hol chase the criminal Hath-Set from their world Thanagar. Hath-Set had killed their son which is why they would follow him so far. In a battle over Earth both ships are damaged and crash. After a few years of searching they finally find Hath-Set as he and his cult are performing a ritual using the Amulet of Anubis to try and make himself immortal. They fight and in the process all 3 are mortally wounded just as the spell takes effect which throws them into an endless cycle of reincarnation. We then Pick up with modern day archeologist Carter Hall having dreams and nightmares of his past lives which set in motion him discovering the ancient Thanagarian tech and becoming Hawkman. He is attacked by Hath-Set who has also been reborn as Kristopher Roderic in the modern time and they battle. Roderic tells Hall as he lays dying that the cycle will never end and they have killed each other dozens of time each and he will see him again. The movie ends in psychiatric hospital with a patient named Kendra Saunders who has been there since she was a teen suffering from visions and dellusions. She sits in her room sedated because of violent outbursts she has been having the last few weeks wrhn she suddenly calms down and says one word. Carter.

I like this one! In general I like a lot of the ideas on this thread that Katar Hol (or at any rate, some Thanagarian) was a past life of Carter's.

In my version too I would hint at Khufu either being a reincarnation of Katar himself, or Khufu having encountered Katar when the latter crash-landed in his kingdom before dying shortly thereafter.

Venditti did something pretty obvious with the character - making Katar and Carter the same person. I think it makes sense to build on that in an adaptation somehow.

I'd just adapt the first issue of Flash Comics (maybe with some elements from the Brightest Day), no need to overcomplicate things: Carter meets Shiera or Kendra, she becomes Hawkgirl, and the two fight Hath-Set. Movie two would focus on the Gentelman Ghost, and movie three would introduce Thanagar.

Yeah, my original post was basically an adaptation of the very first Hawkman story, updating to the present-day with some changes and to tie it in with the DCEU. I guess the one big difference I've made is that Kendra is actually Shayera from Thanagar (but ultimately she'd be a reincarnation of Shiera anyway).

[dswynne]

For me, Aldris Hodge's Hwakman would be the latest incarnation, with Dr. Fate being the constant.

I would start by having Thanagarian cop Katar Hol and his partner Shayera pursue the fugitive, Dr. Hastur, to ancient Egypt. Unfortunately, in the process, the three die in their showdown, but in the process, they get caught up in a cycle of death and rebirth, which leads to Prince Khufu, Chay-Ara and Hath-Set years later (thanks to the effects of Earth's environment on Nth-Metal).

In the 1940s, you have the golden-Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl, along with Dr. Anton Hastor.

And, in modern times, you have the Hawkman (the one featured in BLACK ADAM), with his movie focusing on finding his eternal partner while going against the latest incarnation of his and his beloved ancient enemy: Philanthropist Helene Astor. This time, the stakes are higher, since it involves Thanagar, which would be the focus of the next movie.

So, basically, the first HM film would be about Hawkman searching for his beloved. I would try to balance out the exposition with a flashback.

[bat22]

I think the Timm-verse had a good take with Hawkman's first appearance, before they muddied it up with the Shadow Thief connection.

That being Hawkwoman coming from the Hawk brand's space-faring science fiction aspect and Hawkman coming from the ancient fantasy aspect. Perhaps Shayera loses her love Katar and is cryogenically frozen en route to Earth, allowing for the growth of Carter Hall when she arrives. Shayera can have her biological wings and Carter with artificial Warhawk style wings.

[Dioman-san]

It's simple, you do a Indiana Jones movie style for Hawkman. You tied with the research of this origin, tou find the good creative team and you have a good movie !

[Sandy Hausler]

Adapt Hawkworld. Nuff said. If you haven't read this book, well, it's that holiday season. Treat yourself.

[Ra-El]

It's simple, you do a Indiana Jones movie style for Hawkman. You tied with the research of this origin, tou find the good creative team and you have a good movie !

The most simple route, make Carter superhero Indiana Jones tying the discovery of his origin with the main plot of the movie.

[Thor-Ul]

Ah you worry for nothing my friend. Anything can end up being offensive garbage if the people making it are short sighted. The biggest difference between Superman being an offensive white savior and an inspiring example of the immigrant experience is quality. Whoever makes this hypothetical Hawkworld film only has to sit back for a minute and think things through, and they'll easily see and avoid the potential pitfalls, all of which are only hypotheticals that would only happen in a worst case "we hired *all* the wrong people!" scenario.

I wish you to be on the right on this.

Besides, folks often forget that a lot of Thanagarian culture isn't supposed to be an example to follow, it's often supposed to be awful, barbaric, and cruel. Their culture is meant to be inferior to ours (so we can all be proud of being human), which is part of why the Hawks fall in love with earth in the first place. Thanagar worshipped devils, they're not meant to be role models..

At least morally.

And audiences love jerk anti-heroes. Look at how successful Andor is, that guy has killed friends in cold blood just to cover his own ass, and people love him. Katar can be an *******, and as long as the writers make him the right kind of *******, people will eat it up. Just a little nicer to Shay, early on. Just a few less corrupt crimes in his wake. .

Leaving aside how much successful Andor really was, you can have a point.

Again, not actually a problem if the people in charge think it through and get in front of it. For one thing, it's Hawkman. Nobody really cares. For another, from what I hear the actor did a solid job but didn't knock it out of the park enough for audiences to be attached. A handful of folks would bitch about recasting but it's not gonna amount to anything. And the sad cold truth is, people would only really complain if you recast with a white guy. And since I'd be casting someone who's Egyptian, that wouldn't be an issue.

Still uncertain on this point. In the 'net there are a lot of kind of sanctimonious crowds willing to create fake scandals.

That said, I think than any Hawkman & Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman movie will had to choose between one of the origins. I don't think a movie can manage both aspects at the same time to create a clear story. On a tv series or an streaming can work. But in a movie, two hours minimum, you would had to explain than they are incarnations of egyptian pharaons and from alien police. It can be a dream to have the complete set, but narratively, an extended origin can be a problem to implement. You have to put in practice the Occam razor principle. It also would be an economic problem because you should had to develop the Egyptian background and the Thanagarian background, (Design, scenary, clothes,) making the movie more expensive. And expensives movies don't are usually approved.