How would you rate the Superman run by Geoff Johns?

[Frontier]

The Donner influence is very clear and obvious with Secret Origin but I totally disagree with the rest of you claiming that’s the entire run. Johns Superman while incorporating that influence is not a one to one copy:



This is not how Chris Reeve acted in the role.

Yeah, more often than not Johns' Superman didn't take any @#$%.

[godisawesome]

And stuff like that is what I did like about Johns's stuff - when he got more creative and did new stuff, or made his Superman act like something besides a Christoper Reeves pastiche.

But sort of weirdly, you could tell that when he had Swan as an artist just drawing Reeves, he dialed back the personality he gave Clark for more of a direct homage of Reeves, and in general, the more directly the artwork reflected Silver Age-esque stuff, the less original and more pure homage his writing got.

I still think his ideas for Reactron, Brainiac, Alura, and Krypton's caste system was excellent.

I just remember grinding my teeth at seeing "The Legion of Super Heroes is back!" when I knew he wasn't going to be writing this third or fourth reboot, so it wasn't going to go anywhere, and all the pomp and glad-handing for rejecting yet more versions of the LOS was an ill-advised victory lap.

And i still say making Sam Lane just be Thunderbolt Ross is stupid in concept.

[Doctor Know]

And i still say making Sam Lane just be Thunderbolt Ross is stupid in concept.

Seconded.

With the existing bent military officials in the DCU against Superman (General Hardcastle and General Eiling); why they ever thought to make Lois' dad a discount Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross was a good idea, is beyond me. Right down to Clark playing Bruce Banner to Lois' being a stand-in Betty Ross.

The ending of New Krypton is still legendary for it's stupidity. While Geoff Johns started the arc; he abandoned it to focus on Blackest Night and Brightest Day. Leaving James Robinson to finish Last Stand of new Krypton and War of the Supermen. Leading to hilariously awful, self-own panels like this:




You know the creatives at DC were burning all bridges from New Krypton; when they have a character commit suicide with a gun. Standing 5 feet away from a character who is faster than a speeding bullet. WTF is Kara even doing acting shocked and retreating backwards? As if she hasn’t seen worse being a costumed hero for years.


I was happy when Morrison rehabilitated Sam Lane’s character at the start of the New 52. He’s skeptical but not an outright caricature of Thunderbolt Ross.




Then Scott Snyder and Jim Lee turned the Thunderbolt Ross level back up to 11. For their 2014 Superman Unchained book.

[Vordan]

Heh I like Sam Lane as the anti-Superman military figurehead. Yes it’s similar to Ross but I love Hulk so that doesn’t bother me, and it made another member of the Lane family important as opposed to before where we were drowning in Ma and Pa appearances but Lois’ parent never showed up.

[Stanlos]

Wow. If you guys hadn't said Sam's name I would have thought that was General Eiling in those pics

[Ascended]

Last Son started out well enough, though I moved in the middle of the story and never caught up with the ending.

Legion was a pretty good story.

Brainiac wasn't bad but falls short of great.

Secret Origin is the worst Super origin I have ever read, but it hit a lot of basic pre-Crisis bullet points I wanted back in the mythos.

Last Krypton had the seed of a good idea somewhere in there, but the details were weak and shaky even before Johns abandoned the thing right in the middle.

The New52 run was so completely awful I struggle to think of a single good thing to say about it. I'm sure there's something in there but if so, I've forgotten it.

Doomsday Clock was, I thought, one of the best stories Johns has ever written, with more nuance than he'd ever achieved before. And Clark's role in the tale is fine, but I find his dialogue and characterization....less than enthralling.

And across it all, I find that Johns often somehow sucks all the fun out of Clark and writes him in the most generic way possible, even when re-introducing stuff that, by rights, should make Clark more interesting and compelling. And the Donner nostalgia stopped being cute with Last Son.

Johns has written some of my favorite DC titles, from JSA to Booster Gold and GL. But his Superman is one of the worst in modern DC, even when Johns manages to wrap a solid story around the character.

[Johnny Thunders!]

1. JSA
2. Flash
3. Green Lantern
4. Superman

I think Geoff Johns is a solid writer and comic creator.
There was a huge chunk of comics from his JSA run that were just great.
With Superman, I read it, but I like his other books more.
I feel like with Johns, his high point might be the Stargirl CW show, all the CW superhero shows seem to be extra “comic booky” because of him.

[magha_regulus]

I liked what he did leading up to New Krypton. Superman and the Legion of Superheroes is probably my favorite thing he's written with the main continuity Superman. My issue is that he doesn't seem to follow through with Superman. He introduces major plot points, and then abandons Superman for some other project and leaves the books in bad shape. Its a consistent problem. New Krypton and what he did with Oz in his New 52 run are the major examples. The man has talent but when it comes to Superman he can be a well-intentioned menace.

[Vordan]

Secret Origin is the worst Super origin I have ever read, but it hit a lot of basic pre-Crisis bullet points I wanted back in the mythos.

Damn that’s harsh. Must not have read Frank Miller’s origin then . I definitely agree that SO is the second weakest of the modern origins, Waid, Morrison, Wolfman, Landis, probably a few more I’m forgetting, they all were better I’d say with only Frank Miller’s being worse. It’s putting all the toys in Superman’s sandbox but despite having a few great ideas, like Johns revamp of Metallo, it’s take on Clark is way too attached to the Donner/Reeve take.

Doomsday Clock was, I thought, one of the best stories Johns has ever written, with more nuance than he'd ever achieved before. And Clark's role in the tale is fine, but I find his dialogue and characterization....less than enthralling.

And across it all, I find that Johns often somehow sucks all the fun out of Clark and writes him in the most generic way possible, even when re-introducing stuff that, by rights, should make Clark more interesting and compelling. And the Donner nostalgia stopped being cute with Last Son.

Johns has written some of my favorite DC titles, from JSA to Booster Gold and GL. But his Superman is one of the worst in modern DC, even when Johns manages to wrap a solid story around the character.

I think why I usually find his Superman tolerable is that he doesn’t lean into the “farmboy” take too hard. His Clark is competent, he gets to do cool stuff and Johns leans into the sci-fi elements, but God I’m sick of Johns screwing with Clark’s status quo only to leave his plot threads for other people to resolve. And I hate that he brought Ma and Pa back at the end of DDC, not even getting into how he didn’t take any of the blame for the New 52’s missteps.

[Mantis-Ray]

I recently read Last Son and Brainiac a couple days ago (bought the Last Son of Krypton trade) and found both stories pretty good

Really enjoyed the Hell out of them

Wait did Johns write anything other than the Men of Tomorrow arc in the New 52 era?

[Doctor Know]

Wow. If you guys hadn't said Sam's name I would have thought that was General Eiling in those pics

I know right?! The shit is absurd. All to facilitate a sense of “melodrama” between Clark, Lois and General Lane.

General Eiling and General Hardcastle already have the area DC wants Sam Lane to cover occupied. It was Hardcastle in Superman TAS. Later JLU had Hardcastle and Eiling.

Last Son started out well enough, though I moved in the middle of the story and never caught up with the ending.

Legion was a pretty good story.

Brainiac wasn't bad but falls short of great.

Secret Origin is the worst Super origin I have ever read, but it hit a lot of basic pre-Crisis bullet points I wanted back in the mythos.

Last Krypton had the seed of a good idea somewhere in there, but the details were weak and shaky even before Johns abandoned the thing right in the middle.

The New52 run was so completely awful I struggle to think of a single good thing to say about it. I'm sure there's something in there but if so, I've forgotten it.

Doomsday Clock was, I thought, one of the best stories Johns has ever written, with more nuance than he'd ever achieved before. And Clark's role in the tale is fine, but I find his dialogue and characterization....less than enthralling.

And across it all, I find that Johns often somehow sucks all the fun out of Clark and writes him in the most generic way possible, even when re-introducing stuff that, by rights, should make Clark more interesting and compelling. And the Donner nostalgia stopped being cute with Last Son.

Johns has written some of my favorite DC titles, from JSA to Booster Gold and GL. But his Superman is one of the worst in modern DC, even when Johns manages to wrap a solid story around the character.

Johns is a paradox like that. For less popular characters, Johns is a kingmaker. Green Lantern, Flash, Booster Gold, JSA, Hawkman, Stargirl, Teen Titans, and Aquaman. But for Superman, Batman, WW and the League. He leaves a lot to be desired.

I recently read Last Son and Brainiac a couple days ago (bought the Last Son of Krypton trade) and found both stories pretty good

Really enjoyed the Hell out of them

Wait did Johns write anything other than the Men of Tomorrow arc in the New 52 era?

Only his New 52 run on Justice League. Where Johns had 52 issues on the main JL book and two wide line events. Where Superman is not the central character in any of them.

1. JL Origin - The Super Seven unite to fight Darkseid... again. For the first time.

2. Villains Journey - Against David Graves. Hal gets booted off the League. Superman and Wonder Woman become a couple.

3. Throne of Atlantis - Against Ocean Master and the Atlantean Army. DC loves this story for some reason. They keep adapting it.

4. New 52 Shazam origin that was told in parts at the end of JL issues.

5. The Grid - Against Despero and prelude to Trinity War.

6. Trinity War - The much hyped war between the three Justice Leagues ends up being a trailer for Forever Evil. Johns has Superman kill Dr. Light by blowing his head off.

7. Forever Evil - Forget the Leagues. This is the story Johns REALLY wanted to tell. Luthor is the big hero and Captain Cold joins the JL with him. Also teases the Anti-Monitor from Earth-3 coming to New 52 Earth.

8. Injustice League - Geoff Johns introduces the New 52 Doom Patrol, New 52 AMAZO and another GL he co-created, Jessica Cruz.

9. Darkseid War - Johns introduces an evil Amazon, Grail. Who is the daughter of Darkseid. Despite this familial connection, Grail isn't pitted against Diana for this arc. Anti-Monitor and Darkseid fight. Darkseid dies, the JL members all become gods. Grail betrays the Anti-Monitor during his duel to the death with Lex Luthor. Anti-Life Equation Steve Trevor kills the Anti-Monitor. Geoff Johns jobbing of the Anti-Monitor continues. Darkseid is reborn using Superwoman's baby.

After Darkseid War. New 52 Superman and New 52 Lois die. So they can be replaced by their pre-Flashpoint counterparts. Because nothing says the return of "hope and optimism", like killing off two main characters. This only happens to the Superman line to facilitate the transition into the Rebirth era.

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All in all. Johns' New 52 JL run was a waste for the characters. Spectacular pencils and inking, but nothing was accomplished.


Superman and Wonder Woman had nothing to do but make kissy faces for 52 issues.

Batman had nothing to do during this run. Looking at Johns' Batman Year One series. I don't think anyone's going to hold that up as a shining example either.

Hal was kicked off the League early in the story. So Johns could focus on him for his New 52 GL run. Jessica Cruz becomes a GL towards the tail end of Darkseid War.

Barry Allen is revived just prior to the New 52 and he has nothing to do on JL either.

Geoff Johns' Cyborg.... Ahahahahahaha!

Of the initial "Super Seven" that made up the JL at the start of the New 52. Only Aquaman was given an arc as the main focus and development as a result.

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Is it any surprise that Johns doesn't have a unique and classic Superman tale?

Last Son - Comic Copycat of Superman II. Featuring the rest of the DC universe.

Superman Brainiac - Pretty generic alien invasion. Johns' trademark of retcon everything that came before him.

Superman and the Legion of Superheroes - Nothing special but the Gary Frank pencils.

Secret Origin - Borrows from the Silver Age, Donner, Superman TAS and Birthright to make an origin that adds nothing and says nothing new. Only a blink and you miss it reference to the (at the time ongoing) New Krypton event and the (at the time) upcoming Action Comics #900 (Death of Lex Luthor) story. Neither of which Johns would end up writing.

The Men of Tomorrow - Best summed up as a place holder between the old New 52 and at time upcoming DCU "Truth" arc for Superman.

Doomsday Clock - A saga:
1. Manhattan is teased in the last pages of Johns New 52 JL Darkseid War in May of 2016. Where he kills Owlman and Metron.

2. The Watchmen are confirmed to be in the DCU during Rebirth. Rebirth (the return of hope and optimism) is kicked off by Manhattan killing Pandora. A character who was forgotten about in the middle of her own event back in 2013.

3. Doomsday Clock officially begins in January 2018. For a companion to Rebirth, it got a late start. Johns intended Doomsday Clock to be vehicle to push the message of hope and optimism returning.

4. 12 issues and 2 years later (2020). Doomsday Clock ends with a whimper. It missed the Rebirth wave that started back 2016. Scott Snyder's Dark Knights Metal ended Rebirth and made it's own changes to the DCU. Death Metal would be the "next big thing". Until it would be supplanted by Infinite Frontier.

5. Ultimately, Doomsday Clock ends as an unsatisfying story featuring the Watchmen and Superman. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I recall Supes not being in most of it until the end of the story. At least Johns stuck with it and didn't bail half-way through like he did with New Krypton.

What @magha_regulus said is accurate. When it comes to Superman, Johns can be a "well-intentioned menace".

[Cyberstrike]

Johns has always been a very mixed bag for me I loved his debut work of Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. and his run of JSA is some of the best work anyone has every done for that team, but I'm not a big fan of Green Lantern: Rebirth, Infinite Crisis, and Flashpoint and his general attitude to dismiss characters like Kyle Rayner, Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Linda Danvers, and Cassandra Cain as useless fillers for Hal Jordan, Dick Greyson/Damien Wayne, Wally West, Kara Zor-El, Barbra Gordan. If the characters come from the late 80s or 90s and if he or creators like Grant Morrison didn't co-create them then they suck, and his fixation on continuity and his attempts to "fix" it or to bring back some obscure characters and try to make cool. His massive events that are just parts of even larger stories which Doomsday Clock feels like the third part of trilogy with Flashpoint and DCU: Rebirth being parts 1 and 2. Even as a sequel and rebuttal to the original Watchmen it tries to match the look and feel while Johns is good writer he completely fails when he tries to copy Alan Moore's dialogue this really true with Rorschach and Veidt and even Dr. Manhattan to a certain degree but once he figures out his own take on Dr. Manhattan this problem fades.

Batman and The Joker are just there and while it's easy to say that The Mime, and the Marionette are just the WMU's version of the Joker and Harley Quinn they are more like Mick and Mallory from Oliver Stone's film Natural Born Killers with one major difference from both pairs they're not shown to be in a toxic and/or abusive relationship at all. Despite them both being crooks and even cold blooded murderers they come off as a very loving couple and don't seem to have any of toxic nature of Mick and Mallory did at the start of the film and especially free of any toxic and abuse of the Joker and Harley Quinn. It's too bad they don't seem to have anything to do after issue #7 because once Dr. Manhattan enters the series he dominates the series pushing everybody else to sidelines. It's weird that real world Russian President Putin is not name dropped but is also shown while the President of the United States is never shown or named but it's implied to be Trump. The Carver Coleman subplot while well done does feels like it takes to long to get to the point and at times it feels like a background detail that is taking up too much room and is way too obvious to be a major plot point. Wonder Woman literally appears in a few panels in one issue after the villains attack the UN we don't see her fight them or even how she survives the attack.

The first six issues are kind of a dull slog and numbers 7-11 are mostly good, but #12 makes the whole damn series worth the read because once Dr. Manhattan understands the nature of Superman, Johns explains it in a short and simple way:
"The rocket arrives.
A child is loved.
Superman is made.
I now understand Superman's true purpose.
He will show them the way.
And in a millennium when his timeline converges with The Legion's...humankind will finally embrace the ways of Superman.
He is the bridge stretching across generations that will lead everyone to peace."

The art by Gary Frank is spectacular he does nice homages to Dave Gibbons but still feels like this style, but in #12 when the JSA and The Legion return it's as if finally breaks free decides to go for big splash pages and Brad Anderson, the colorist, does a remarkable job of creating the look of a darker and meaner DCU (and WMU but that goes without saying) in #1-6 but gives it a slightly more warmer and upbeat feel with Superman, the JSA, and the Legion in #7-#12.

Like I said earlier Doomsday Clock is an extremely ambitious story that if anything else one has to give Johns and Frank credit for having the guts to attempt a sequel to Watchmen even if it's doesn't exactly sticks to landing in everything that it's trying to be. Even if it's continuity metaverse multiverse reshaping events already seem out of date by other DC books and/or events and new creators coming in. If this is indeed Johns' last major project for DC Comics he goes out saying on his terms and saying what he wanted to say about superheroes, politics, and sums up what Superman means to him and to people like me. In the end it's a very messy but it's still a very solid read.

[KC]

I loved Johns' pre-Flashpoint Action Comics stories and Secret Origins. He told great stories and, In my opinion, he brought back elements from Superman's Silver Age mythos that were sorely missing.

[manwhohaseverything]

The Donner influence is very clear and obvious with Secret Origin but I totally disagree with the rest of you claiming that’s the entire run. Johns Superman while incorporating that influence is not a one to one copy:



This is not how Chris Reeve acted in the role.

Nope!that is donner's superman..You just aren't looking at it from the entirety..The bar bully scene,the character's itself downward spiral and things like that.

This kinda forced clark puts an angry face to scare people thing is entirely donner.Normally,clark doesn't need to do that people will get shit scared by clark being in the room.It's not his intention either.Although,Sometimes when he puts his opinions forward and acts(knowingly or unknowingly) on it as an outlaw plays into that.

"You need'nt be afraid of me"
Heck!he doesn't want the likes of lois to be afraid of him.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I really enjoyed his Aquaman relaunch for the Nu52.
I may have to revisit his Superman, I like Gary Franks art but I got use to him on Supreme Power for Marvel, so it has a creepy quality to me.