Dark Web 1 Spoilers and Review: Ben to Hell and Back

[xpyred]

I've been meaning to ask for the longest period of time but just never found the time to ask: is this super evil Norman still a product of the Gathering of Five? Prior to that story, he was just Lex Luther light. Then he got the madness and was relatively "okay" between Return of the Green Goblin in 2000 and the first arc of Pulse when his identity is revealed to the world. Since Pulse, Norman is next level insane but I never understood the drastic change.

[Hulkout42]

Questions...why is Ms. Marvel getting roped into this and why should i care? I mean what does she have to do with either Spider-man or the X-men that necessitates her presence in this?

[Kurolegacy]

Questions...why is Ms. Marvel getting roped into this and why should i care? I mean what does she have to do with either Spider-man or the X-men that necessitates her presence in this?

Wells basically called dibs since no one was doing anything with her and made her a supporting cast member of ASM interning at Oscorp. So she gets dragged in by association. Better question, why does it take Kamala calling in for help for Miles to get involved in this when he’s also living in New York? Surely he can also see what’s going down.

[Crazyspideyfan]

I did enjoy this issue, it was nice to see Harry’s second death finally addressed, and I did really like Peter’s philosophy on how he thinks BND Harry was a different person, but he was still a person. Poor BND Harry, I really did like him but I understand them wanting to reinforce the importance of his original death. I hope Eddie’s memory loss isn’t permanent, would be a really sad way to reset the status quo after all the character development he has went through, although I think they’re making it clear it’s just for this storyline. Also liked the interaction between Norman and Ben, very interested to see where this goes.

[Crazyspideyfan]

I've been meaning to ask for the longest period of time but just never found the time to ask: is this super evil Norman still a product of the Gathering of Five? Prior to that story, he was just Lex Luther light. Then he got the madness and was relatively "okay" between Return of the Green Goblin in 2000 and the first arc of Pulse when his identity is revealed to the world. Since Pulse, Norman is next level insane but I never understood the drastic change.

Marvel seems to not have decided on that, they like to change how Norman is written depending on the different media at the time, it seems like now whenever Norman doesn’t have the serum he is more calm and collected like Lex Luthor, but different depictions like to depict him differently lol. He did sell Harry’s soul to Mephisto before everything so he must have been some level of insane lol, although depending on who’s writing he’s usually more just an evil CEO but not Joker insane

[Odd Rödney]

why is Ms. Marvel getting roped into this and why should i care? I mean what does she have to do with either Spider-man or the X-men that necessitates her presence in this?

Warning: wild speculation on my part right here but I think it's 'cause Ms. Marvel will soon be revealed to be a mutant.

As the gods intended.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yea, I really can’t accept Ben or Janine’s just not caring because, while it might make sense in the context of the story, it doesn’t change for me that bad writing and a lot of PIS led to it. These are things that I just can’t overlook especially since I’m reminded of the stupid pills everyone had to be on for Superior to happen. While I’m going to follow this crossover, I refuse to give Marvel any money for this story as I find it would be rewarding them for a direction that I despise. The Spider-Man line is usually one of endearing hope. Everything from the groundwork of this crossover to this issue is just bathed in a cynicism and nihilism that wouldn’t feel out of place in the Ultimate Universe. Meanwhile the only thing that felt like the spirit of Spider-Man is given to Osborn pertaining to Harry which falls flat when his current state is only because his sins were removed from him and the fact that he sold Harry to Mephisto long before he ever took the Goblin Serum.

Funny enough, Spider-Man was the one bright spot of the Ultimate Universe because the character and the writing in his comic were fighting against that cynicism and nihilism you described permeating that line. Shame that Wells didn't seem to get that memo.

Giving Wells and Co. Too much credit at the end there

I could be, yeah.

Yea, especially when Peter’s only been working for Osborn for a short time. For Ben to have sabotaged Osborn’s new suit it would have to have happened very recently that he posed as Peter. So it would be impossible for him to be responsible for what happened with Peter to have caused that crater.

Fair enough.

I did enjoy this issue, it was nice to see Harry’s second death finally addressed, and I did really like Peter’s philosophy on how he thinks BND Harry was a different person, but he was still a person. Poor BND Harry, I really did like him but I understand them wanting to reinforce the importance of his original death. I hope Eddie’s memory loss isn’t permanent, would be a really sad way to reset the status quo after all the character development he has went through, although I think they’re making it clear it’s just for this storyline. Also liked the interaction between Norman and Ben, very interested to see where this goes.

Aside from not liking this issue as a whole, I'm generally in agreement. The scene between Norman and "Chasm"/Ben was the best part for me, though I did somewhat appreciate Wells's homage to Madelyne's nightmare at the beginning of the original Inferno that catalyzed her transformation into the Goblin Queen. No wonder she saw The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly as a kindred spirit. And yes, post-OMD/BND Harry did deserve to be viewed as a person in his own right and his death was a tragedy, although Peter attempting to comfort Norman, even if Norman was technically still "cleansed," didn't sit well with me, either.

Marvel seems to not have decided on that, they like to change how Norman is written depending on the different media at the time, it seems like now whenever Norman doesn’t have the serum he is more calm and collected like Lex Luthor, but different depictions like to depict him differently lol. He did sell Harry’s soul to Mephisto before everything so he must have been some level of insane lol, although depending on who’s writing he’s usually more just an evil CEO but not Joker insane

Technically, the Green Goblin is just Norman at his most unhinged and openly bats*** insane, though he was still an unscrupulous POS even before he became the Green Goblin. It's like he said back in an episode of Spectacular Spider-Man: "We all wear masks, Spider-Man, but which is real? The one that hides your face, or the one that is your face?" In a nutshell, the Goblin is Norman's unleashed id, his completely unrestrained will to power and to destroy anyone who stands in the way of him gaining (more) power, which can and does manifest in extreme violence.

[Digifiend]

Wells basically called dibs since no one was doing anything with her and made her a supporting cast member of ASM interning at Oscorp. So she gets dragged in by association. Better question, why does it take Kamala calling in for help for Miles to get involved in this when he’s also living in New York? Surely he can also see what’s going down.

Which actually means the Spidey office has created a continuity error for the former Champions. Aren't Miles and Kamala the same age? Miles is still at Brooklyn Visions in his new series, though Ahmed's series did end with him finding out where he'll be going next academic year. But Kamala has a job, which implies she's graduated from high school?

As for Miles in Dark Web, his new series starts with him saying Peter's acting weird - they don't seem to be in contact. That'll be why it's Kamala who calls him in instead. I wonder how Miles will react to finding out that Kamala's been working as Peter's lab partner, and neither of them know each other are superheroes? Miles of course knows both of their secret identities and could therefore end up outing them to each other.

[rward777]

Which actually means the Spidey office has created a continuity error for the former Champions. Aren't Miles and Kamala the same age? Miles is still at Brooklyn Visions in his new series, though Ahmed's series did end with him finding out where he'll be going next academic year. But Kamala has a job, which implies she's graduated from high school?

As for Miles in Dark Web, his new series starts with him saying Peter's acting weird - they don't seem to be in contact. That'll be why it's Kamala who calls him in instead. I wonder how Miles will react to finding out that Kamala's been working as Peter's lab partner, and neither of them know each other are superheroes? Miles of course knows both of their secret identities and could therefore end up outing them to each other.

Or Miles morales 1 could be taking place months before ASM#1

[Kurolegacy]

Which actually means the Spidey office has created a continuity error for the former Champions. Aren't Miles and Kamala the same age? Miles is still at Brooklyn Visions in his new series, though Ahmed's series did end with him finding out where he'll be going next academic year. But Kamala has a job, which implies she's graduated from high school?

As for Miles in Dark Web, his new series starts with him saying Peter's acting weird - they don't seem to be in contact. That'll be why it's Kamala who calls him in instead. I wonder how Miles will react to finding out that Kamala's been working as Peter's lab partner, and neither of them know each other are superheroes? Miles of course knows both of their secret identities and could therefore end up outing them to each other.

Not necessarily. Given that Kamala does well academically, it’s very possible that she was accepted into an internship program going along with her final year of high school.

And with Miles, even if he still isn’t really in contact with Peter, Hell is quite literally breaking loose in New York. If there’s ever been a time to live up to Spider-Man’s mantra, it’s now. Only excusable thing is that he’s already out in the streets fighting off demons at the time Kamala calls for his help.

[classicgmer]

[QUOTE=Jman27;6290338] point 3 of the review is the correct way to go when reading this run. The beatdown of Norman by Ben is long overdue should the circumstances be better? not really in my opinion a beatdown is a beatdown. I'm looking forward to the Venom and Peter fight to be honest[/QUOTE]




Imho the circumstances are everything. A Ben that is 100% whole and has all his facilities about him beating the crap out of an unrepentant Norman that regards Ben as nothing more than a tool and less than human would've been far more interesting than this.

[Tabs]

Technically, the Green Goblin is just Norman at his most unhinged and openly bats*** insane, though he was still an unscrupulous POS even before he became the Green Goblin. It's like he said back in an episode of Spectacular Spider-Man: "We all wear masks, Spider-Man, but which is real? The one that hides your face, or the one that is your face?" In a nutshell, the Goblin is Norman's unleashed id, his completely unrestrained will to power and to destroy anyone who stands in the way of him gaining (more) power, which can and does manifest in extreme violence.

Most will agree with this opinion, but not all will agree with what it implies. I have always found it quirky when fans assert that Osborn does not have dissociative identity disorder... and then proceed to describe the green goblin as a demonized dissociative part unironically.

[boots]

Imho the circumstances are everything. A Ben that is 100% whole and has all his facilities about him beating the crap out of an unrepentant Norman that regards Ben as nothing more than a tool and less than human would've been far more interesting than this.

yeah a hero turned bad beating the hell out of a villain turned good loses some of the satisfaction for me too, conceptually

though i guess there's a thematic irony to it all

[Huntsman Spider]

[QUOTE=classicgmer;6290997]

point 3 of the review is the correct way to go when reading this run. The beatdown of Norman by Ben is long overdue should the circumstances be better? not really in my opinion a beatdown is a beatdown. I'm looking forward to the Venom and Peter fight to be honest[/QUOTE]




Imho the circumstances are everything. A Ben that is 100% whole and has all his facilities about him beating the crap out of an unrepentant Norman that regards Ben as nothing more than a tool and less than human would've been far more interesting than this.

yeah a hero turned bad beating the hell out of a villain turned good loses some of the satisfaction for me too, conceptually

though i guess there's a thematic irony to it all

True enough, yeah.

Most will agree with this opinion, but not all will agree with what it implies. I have always found it quirky when fans assert that Osborn does not have dissociative identity disorder... and then proceed to describe the green goblin as a demonized dissociative part unironically.

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. Maybe I should have framed it more along the lines of, "The Green Goblin is simply Norman Osborn when he takes off his metaphorical mask by putting on a literal mask." Kind of like how Batman is often said to be Bruce Wayne's truest self over at DC, but as a villain instead of a hero.

[Aura Blaize]

I actually found myself enjoying this issue. I absolutely hate what they did with Ben, but given that he's someone who's fed up with the world and doesn't have Peter's upbringing to fall back on, it makes sense. How many times has Peter lashed out at the world before reigning it in?

Also I'm sure at the end of this, Ben will be restored to the man we know and love.

"Good" Norman is growing on me some. I do like a good redemption story, but I refuse to get completely invested as what happened with Superior is still fresh in my mind. Especially since they're already teasing that this is temporary.

Eddie....I'm a little worried because while I know this is temporary, I really hope it doesn't mess up his character development and his relationship with Peter. I am curious as how Dylan is going to fit into all this.

All in all I'm intrigued. This is so far MUCH better than what's been going on in ASM so far.