There’s been a lot of discussion recently about how the DCU timeline should/does/doesn’t/might/can look like at the moment, so I figured I’d make a thread for all us timeline obsessives
I spent years trying to work out how it all fits in my own exhaustive History of the DC Universe here,
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...1jGbDYpYE/edit
The only solution I could come up with was to embrace the messiness of it all and simply acknowledge that the history of this world has been rewritten several times over and many of the residents of the DCU are fully aware of it and accept it as yet another crazy feature of the insane world they live in. Nobody dwells on it because it doesn’t really have a big impact on their lives and there’s nothing much they could do about it anyways.
So, how do you view the timeline of the DCU? How do you explain the many contradictions and inconsistencies in your own nerd brain?
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12-08-2022, 01:23 AM #1Obsessed & Compelled
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The DCU Timeline Discussion Thread!
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12-08-2022, 11:27 AM #2Extraordinary Member
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I try to pretend that lots of things didn't happen. In the end it is not any less messier because there are huge gaps that can't really be ignored, but hey, at least I can pretend that Jon wasn't born in another timeline and his dad isn't Superman from yet another timeline that is different to our Superman till Reborn happened and he wasn't different anymore.
Writing about comics https://bookofhsssh.blogspot.com
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12-08-2022, 12:24 PM #3Ultimate Member
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Yeah altered reality events and putting things back along with deaths and resurrections is how I just wave away everything else I’ll be stuck thinking to hard about certain things.
Why is Powergirl and the Infinity Inc characters young as the Titans if she’s been around since the 70’s? Reality changes and erasing from history!
Is Cyborg a Titan or a Justice League member? Flashpoint!
And so on and so forth. Sometimes it’s fun speculating about a characters whole collective history, like Black Canary. But overall it shouldn’t wholly weigh down your enjoyment."It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
Words to live by.
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12-08-2022, 12:39 PM #4Astonishing Member
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I personally would prefer something like Bored's timeline. But here's my humble attempt at playing at something close to DC's rules and putting together a timeline loosely based on the one Johns' established in JSA # 1 (by making the assumption that the '13 years ago' scene there was not literally a flashback to Year One despite recreating a panel from there). This is mostly a Batman-centric timeline for now, but I've tried to fit in some of the wider DCU stuff round it.
17 years ago
Clark Kent makes his debut as Superman
16 years ago
Bruce Wayne debuts as Batman.
15 years ago
Dick Grayson becomes Robin. Bruce encounters Ra's and Talia and Damian is conceived.
14 years ago
Damian is born. Wonder Woman returns to Man's World. Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman etc. debut.
13 years ago
The Justice League is formed. Catwoman encounters Dr. Fate.
12 years ago
The Teen Titans are formed. Lois and Clark get married.
11 years ago
Jon is born.
10 years ago
Dick goes off to college. Oliver and Hal become Hard Traveling Heroes.
9 years ago
New Teen Titans are formed. Dick becomes Nightwing. COIE occurs. Jason becomes Robin.
8 years ago
Jason is killed by the Joker. Barbara is paralyzed.
7 years ago
Tim becomes Robin.
6 years ago
Young Justice is formed.
5 years ago
Jason returns as Red Hood. Infinite Crisis occurs. Bruce meets Damian.
4 years ago
Damian becomes Robin. Batman Inc is formed. Barry causes Flashpoint.
3 years ago
Batman encounters the Court of Owls.
2 years ago
Oliver meets Emiko.
1 year ago
Wally West returns. Jon Kent becomes Superboy.
I still haven't figured out a lot of things of course. The biggest sticking point right now is whether to move Doomsday to earlier in the timeline, or simply have it occur after the Lois-Clark marriage and Jon's birth.
But I think this timeline broadly puts the character's at the age DC wants them to be. The Justice League founder generation are in their late 30's/early 40's. The Teen Titans generation are in their late 20's. The Young Justice generation are in their late teens or about 20. And Damian's generation are pre-teens or in their early teens.
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12-08-2022, 01:09 PM #5Spectacular Member
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I honestly think 24 years is better
Originally Posted by bat39
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12-09-2022, 05:50 PM #6Astonishing Member
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And to clarify, this is done in conjunction with a “static” 20th century history of the JSA, from their founding in 1940 to an initial retirement in 1951, followed by a return to active duty in 1963 and the appearance of Power Girl in 1976, before everyone JSA-related goes missing in 1985 — only to reappear “9 years ago” at the tail end of the Crisis. Originally Posted by bat39
Related to this is that the Silver/Bronze Age team ups between the JLA and JSA mostly happened, but generally involved time travel instead of dimensional travel: Flash of Two Worlds becomes Flash of Two Eras, with the Barry Allen of 14 years ago accidentally traveling back in time to 1961 to meet Jay Garrick; “Crisis on Earth One/Crisis on Earth Two” becomes an event where the JSA comes back together in order to stop some shenanigans by a group of villains including Chronos, and ends up pulling the JLA of 13 years ago into the fray. Most significantly, the Crisis on Infinite Earths happens not just “9 years ago” (for the 21st century heroes), but also “in 1985” (for the 20th century heroes); and following the battle at the Dawn of Time (COIE#10), everyone involved wakes up “in the present” (i.e., “9 years ago”).
This is how Infinity Inc, founded in 1984, is still young: the Crisis skipped them from 1985 to the 21st century, and it has only been nine years since then; so if they were in their early 20s when they debuted, they'd be around 30 now. Power Girl would be a little older (her debut was in 1976; so she'd be about 18 years older than when she debuted); but Kryptonians are arguably longer lived than humans.
Some of the JLA/JSA team ups didn't happen, though: most notably, Crisis on Earth Three. The clash between Earth 0 and Earth 3 has happened; but the 20th century heroes weren't involved in it. There have, in fact, been three versions of that story that have been told post-Crisis: Morrison's JLA: Earth 2; the post-Flashpoint Forever Evil; and the recent Battle for Earth 3. As far as I know, only the last one is in continuity on Earth 0: Forever Evil involved Earth 52 and that era's version of Earth 3; and I'd have Morrison's JLA: Earth 2 take place on an Earth that's to Infinite Crisis as Earth 1985 is to CoIE.
Which brings up another point: Doomsday Clock's “archival Earths” are a thing. They're not part of the current Earth 0's history; but they include stories that were part of Earth 0's history during previous iterations of its timeline. We don't know at this point whether they exist in the Omniverse or in Hypertime, though I'd personally place them in Hypertime; they're very much in alignment with “whenever a consequential decision is made, the universe splits” — which, according to Flashpoint Beyond, is the basis of Hypertime. But I digress: the main point is that there are portions of DC's mainstream meta-history that aren't part of Earth 0's timeline. Morrison put a lot of work into incorporating nearly everything of Batman's publication history into Earth 0's history; but then Flashpoint happened, and there's some question as to how much of the pre-Flashpoint history is part of the current timeline.
All that said:
I'd definitely prefer to go with something a little bit longer. Originally Posted by Dagothoth
Last edited by Dataweaver; 05-26-2023 at 05:03 AM.
Rogue wears rouge.
Angel knows all the angles.
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12-09-2022, 06:36 PM #7Incredible Member
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Personally I just go with the "multiverse" explanation. i.e. 'everything happened' just not all in the same place.
So in one universe Clark Kent became Superboy and had adventures with the Legion of Superheroes. In another he didn't. In one universe Bruce Wayne was raised by his uncle, in another he was raised by Alfred, and so on. Boom, all contradictions solved.Last edited by hareluyafan1; 12-09-2022 at 06:39 PM.
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12-09-2022, 08:07 PM #8Astonishing Member
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My preference for addressing “everything happened” is Hypertime, which was created specifically for that purpose. It's not technically a Multiverse, in that it's not designed primarily with world-hopping in mind; though it can do that; see below. It works in part by having the timeline split whenever a consequential decision point is reached, producing one timeline for each choice. In one timeline, Clark Kent became Superboy and had adventures with the Legion of Superheroes; in another, he didn't. In one timeline, Bruce Wayne was raised by his uncle; in another, he was raised by Alfred; and so on.
A more controversial feature of Hypertime is that it allows timelines to occasionally merge, briefly or permanently bringing things back into a given timeline that had previously been excluded from it. If you're telling a story that doesn't depend on whether or not Clark was ever Superboy, you can treat it as happening in a merging of the timelines where he was and where he wasn't; meanwhile, stories that do depend on whether or not Clark was Superboy will happen in the appropriate timelines but not the inappropriate ones. Note that this means that sometimes stories that are published concurrently can contradict each other on some of the finer points, as they're technically happening in different timelines; but because timelines can merge, those somewhat contradictory stories can end up serving as a common background for some later story that draws elements from both.
Meanwhile, there are Elseworlds: alternate timelines that make no pretense of merely being different outcomes of shared decision points; if they are, the decision points were so far back that they can't reasonably be identified. Gotham by Gaslight (where a 19th century Bruce Wayne became Batman) or Elseworld's Finest (where Earth's premier superheroes are Supergirl and Batgirl, not Superman and Batman) would be two such examples; but a world where Billy Batson's Captain Marvel is the premier superhero would be another, and a world featuring the Crime Syndicate would be yet another. These Elseworlds can be viewed as parts of Hypertime; specifically, they're clusters of timelines that are separated enough from the central timeline that there's no chance of them ever merging back into it even briefly.
Interaction between the central timeline and these Elseworlds takes on the characteristics of world-hopping: characters from the central timeline find themselves visiting the Elseworld, or vice versa. This entangles the timelines: while they're still technically distinct timelines, they've become bound to each other by the “world-hopping”; and further development of each with reflect the interaction it had with the other. A collection of Elseworlds that have become entangled can reasonably be called a Multiverse.
And all of that is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, which is an exercise is crafting a single, self-consistent timeline for Earth 0.Rogue wears rouge.
Angel knows all the angles.
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12-10-2022, 08:05 PM #9Mighty Member
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Is Cyborg a Titan or JL character?
There it is..."Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime
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12-10-2022, 08:43 PM #10Astonishing Member
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Titans character first; joined the JLA later. Next question: is his technology human or New Gods? Originally Posted by InfamousBG
Rogue wears rouge.
Angel knows all the angles.
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12-11-2022, 06:15 AM #11Astonishing Member
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Human to begin with...then, about 3-4 years ago, during a battle against Darkseid's forces that led to the formation of a new incarnation of the Justice League, he got infused with New Gods tech. Originally Posted by Dataweaver
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12-11-2022, 07:32 AM #12Obsessed & Compelled
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That's how I view it. Vic merged with a Mother Box after his time with the Titans Originally Posted by bat39
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12-11-2022, 12:33 PM #13Ultimate Member
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Both. Primarily Titan. Originally Posted by InfamousBG
I think Marvel's Beast is a good character to look at. He's an X-Men character, but he also had very popular runs with both the Avengers and the Defenders.
For a while, he was even more well associated with the latter two teams than with the X-Men, which he had stopped appearing with.
He eventually made his way back to the X-Men and his experiences with the other teams have just made him a richer character.
I see the same for Cyborg.
Eventually, everyone becomes a JL character.
Only Titans are Titans, though."There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.
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12-11-2022, 12:57 PM #14Astonishing Member
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The Young Justice crew wants to have a word with you… Originally Posted by Lee Stone
Rogue wears rouge.
Angel knows all the angles.
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12-11-2022, 01:56 PM #15Ultimate Member
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Mostly I view DC's timeline as it relates to Superman and Batman. When did Clark do X, how long before Bruce did Y, stuff like that. Everything else filters in and around that stuff. I try to stay straight with the publishing history too, I don't want to say that, I dunno, Kyle Rayner was the Green Lantern during Crisis on Infinite Earths or something. Obviously reboots and retcons can't allow that to always work; according to the New52 Steel was the second or third public superhero, showing up 6-12 months after Clark, while post-Crisis Steel didn't debut until Clark was deep into his career. In those situations I tend to go with the original idea, unless the reboot/retcon was utterly superior or sticking with the original idea somehow causes the entire timeline to stop making any sense at all. Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM
It doesn't fit with everything as the page presents it; by my reckoning Young Justice should be in their early 20's somewhere, and the adult Titans should be around 30. And stuff's a little awkward with the JSA and Infinity Inc. But there's no air tight, perfect timeline for DC and it works well enough for me, so >shrug<"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
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