The DCU Timeline Discussion Thread!

[Dataweaver]

The critical timespans, IMHO, are ten years from Dick's debut to Tim's debut (if he was at Haley's circus when the Flying Graysons died, Tim couldn't have been much younger than three; and if he was any older, he's too close to Dick's age; and Tim was 13 in A Lonely Place of Dying); and ten years from Daughter of the Demon to Damian's debut (Morrison retconned Damian's conception from the post-Crisis Son of the Demon story to the 1971 first encounter between Bruce and Talia); and four years between Damian's debut and the present day. Tim was 19 when Damian became Robin. Using these figures, we get the following:

• Now (Dec 2022): Damian is 14. Tim is 22. Dick is 29. Bruce is 46.
• One year ago: DCU Rebirth (July 2016). Damian is 13. Tim is 21. Dick is 28. Bruce is 45.
• Three years ago: Dick becomes Batman; Damian becomes Robin; Tim becomes Red Robin (Aug 2009). Damian is 11. Tim is 19. Dick is 26. Bruce is 43.
• Four years ago: Damian is introduced to Bruce (Sept 2006). Damian is 10. Tim is 18. Dick is 25. Bruce is 42.
• Nine years ago: A Lonely Place of Dying (Oct 1989). Damian is 5. Tim is 13. Dick is 20. Bruce is 37.
• Fourteen years ago: Damian is born. Tim is 8. Dick is 15. Bruce is 32.
• Fifteen years ago: Daughter of the Demon (June 1971). Damian is conceived. Tim is 7. Dick is 14. Bruce is 31.
• Nineteen years ago: the Flying Graysons are murdered. Tim is 3. Dick is 10. Bruce is 27.
• Twenty-one years ago: Batman Year One. Tim is 1. Dick is 8. Bruce is 25.
• Thirty-eight years ago: the Waynes are murdered. Bruce is 8.

(I've bolded the ages that I used as starting points.)

Use this as the backbone of the overall sliding timeline. In particular, I've attached month and year of publication to every event that I could, excepting only Batman Year One and Batman Year 3/Dark Victory. The dates that those events originally occurred in the comics were 1939 and 1940, respectively, long before the start of the Silver Age.

Superman's debut should come first, of course; but he can predate Batman by mere months; put his debut at Twenty-one years ago, too. Wonder Woman's return comes after that; but I'd be fine placing that in the same year as Superman's and Batman's debuts. Historically, those three heroes and Robin were the only DC heroes to make the transition through the 1950s Interregnum, when superhero comics all but ceased publication; so setting their debuts about a year before the Silver Age starts in earnest seems appropriate to me.

Start the Silver Age with the Flash's debut in Showcase #4 (Oct 1956): that should be either twenty years ago (if you don't care about Robin predating the dawn of the Silver Age) or eighteen years ago (if you do). I don't, and I'd prefer to have as much time for Silver Age stories as possible; so I'd go with “twenty years ago” for Barry's debut. That gives us five years for the Silver Age (1956 to 1970). That's roughly a 3:1 ratio; as a rule of thumb, you could say that Twenty years ago cover 1956–1959, Nineteen years ago covers 1959–1962, Eighteen years ago covers 1962–1965, Seventeen years ago covers 1965–1968, and Sixteen years ago covers 1968–1971.

Crisis on Infinite Earths happens before A Lonely Place of Dying; but not necessarily much before it: I could see it happening Ten years ago. That gives us another five year period to cover everything from 1971 to 1986. That's roughly a 2.5:1 ratio: 1971–1973 is Fifteen years ago, 1973–1976 is Fourteen years ago; 1976–1978 is Thirteen years ago; 1978–1981 is Twelve years ago; 1981–1983 is Eleven years ago; and 1983–1986 is ten years ago. And Nine years ago has to cover 1986 to 1989.

Nine years ago to Four years ago is 1989–2006; that's seventeen years of publication covering five years of events. But 2005–2006 was 52 and One Year Later; so it needs to be in real time. So we actually have Nine years ago to Six years ago (a three-year span) covering 1989–2005 (sixteen years of publication). That's a 5:1 ratio. So as a first draft, 1989–1995 is Eight years ago; 1995–2000 is Seven years ago; and 2000–2005 is Six years ago. As I said before, 2005–2006 is Five years ago.

2006 is Four years ago; 2009 is Three years ago; and 2016 is one year ago. I'm inclined to say that Flashpoint was two years ago. So: 2006–2009 is Four years ago; 2009–2011 is Three years ago; 2011–2016 is Two years ago; 2016–2020 is One year ago; and 2020–2022+ is Now.

That's my worksheet. I'll summarize in my next post.

[Dataweaver]

(I will be editing this post to insert more details. Please don't quote; because it will be changing.)

The years in parenthesis are the Primary Earth publication dates covered. I'm italicizing events that I'm putting in that year but which weren't actually published then.

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1939: Wonder Woman debuts.

1940: JSA founded.

1951: HUAC hearings forces JSA into retirement.

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1961: Jay is visited by a future Flash.

1962: JSA reforms; team-ups with JLA begin.

1976: Power Girl and Star Spangled Kid join JSA.

1979: Huntress debuts.

1984: Infinity Inc is founded.

1985: Crisis on Infinite Earths (20th century side). Most heroes abruptly disappear.

---

38 YEARS AGO: the Waynes are murdered.

30 YEARS AGO: Superboy debuts. (Clark age 13)

25 YEARS AGO: Superboy disappears. Clark graduates high school and begins his “world tour”.

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21 YEARS AGO (Before 1956): Superman debuts; Batman Year One; Wonder Woman returns.

20 YEARS AGO (1956–1958): The Long Halloween; the Flash debuts.

19 YEARS AGO (1959–1961): Dark Victory; JLA is founded. Barry meets Jay Garrick.

18 YEARS AGO (1962–1964): JLA/JSA team-ups begin. Teen Titans founded.

17 YEARS AGO (1965–1967):

16 YEARS AGO (1968–1970):

15 YEARS AGO (1971–1972): Daughter of the Demon; Hard Traveling Heroes.

14 YEARS AGO (1973–1975): Teen Titans disband.

13 YEARS AGO (1976–1977): Teen Titans revival.

12 YEARS AGO (1978–1980): Teen Titans disband again.

11 YEARS AGO (1981–1982): New Teen Titans form.

10 YEARS AGO (1983–1985): Judas Contract; Justice League Detroit; Jason Todd becomes Robin; Crisis on Infinite Earths. Infinity Inc gets transferred to the present.

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9 YEARS AGO (1986–1988): JLI debuts. A Death in the Family; the Killing Joke.

8 YEARS AGO (1989–1994): A Lonely Place of Dying; Death of Superman; Reign of the Supermen; Emerald Twilight.

7 YEARS AGO (1995–2003): Zero Hour. New Titans disband. Marriage of Lois and Clark. JLA. Titans. Young Justice.

6 YEARS AGO (2003–2005): Titans/YJ: Graduation Day; Infinite Crisis.

5 YEARS AGO (2005–2006): 52

4 YEARS AGO (2006–2009): One Year Later; Batman Inc; Batman RIP; Final Crisis.

3 YEARS AGO (2009–2011): the Return of Bruce Wayne.

---

2 YEARS AGO (2011–2016): New 52.

1 YEAR AGO (2016–2020): Rebirth. Lois and Clark time-travel and return with 9-year-old son.

CURRENT YEAR (2020–now): Doomsday Clock; Dark Nights; Dark Crisis; New Golden Age.

[John Venus]

At this point, I wouldn't even bother with a 'main' timeline. The DCU continuity is irrecoverably broken and any solution is just going to be patchwork.

Instead there should be several earths with their own timelines and audiences can choose what they like:

-Earth-A: The JSA were the first generation of heroes. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were the second generation.

-Earth B: A world where the JSA didn't exist and Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman are the first generation.

-Earth C: A world where the NTT generation is all grown up and looking over the next generation of heroes.

-Earth D: A world where the JLA didn't exist and it's the JSA legacy heroes; the Infinity Inc that watches over every thing.

Then you can have Vertigo/Black Label style book where writers can experiment and basically do whatever they want set in whichever contunity they want. Some stuff will be ongoings if they are successful enough and others will be one offs. Stuff like Milestone universe will come under this with multiple ongoings.

Also more YA content and stuff targeted at tweens and an imprint for kids. Plus more stuff that's available online and open the doors for more creators.

[Dataweaver]

That would be fundamentally contrary to the intent of this thread, though.

[bat39]

It's almost doable; the main nips and tucks you have to make are to slide Damian's birth further back to a point before Dick left for college, and to retcon Damian's age when he was introduced in Morrison's run to 12 instead of 10. That, and ignore the implication in JSA#1 that “13 years ago” is Batman Year One, and just treat it as a Catwoman story that happened several years later. The only real problem with this is that it squeezes Dick's departure to college into the later part of the Bronze Age: instead of happening in the publishing year of 1970, it might have to be pushed forward to as late as the formation of the New Teen Titans in the publishing year of 1980; that is, the Dick is Robin while he's going to college” stories get lost.

But to be fair, that's not new: for both Dick and Barbara, the bulk of their Bronze Age adventures (Dick in college; Barbara as a Senator) have been out of continuity since the Crisis; and not even Morrison saw fit to bring them back when he implemented his “everything in Batman's history happened” post-IC retcon.


It's not so much that I think that we should be beholden to it as it is that sticking to the original time traveling weirdness of it actually solves a number of problems: while we need to make room for Damian's birth on the timeline, Morrison has at least allowed us to place that event in the early Bronze Age; if we attempt to do something similar with Jon, we end up either pushing the wedding of Lois and Clark to before the Crisis on Infinite Earths — which is only doable, as I see it, if you don't insist that it happened after the Death of Superman and the Reign of the Supermen, as that places most of the 90s era of Superman stories before CoIE.

And besides: restoring something resembling the pre-Superman Reborn history provides a “world of New 52” hook for the writers to use, should they decide to: in the original history, Lois, Clark, and Jon spent a decade there, with the last bit (from Rebirth to Reborn) involving Clark temporarily replacing that world's Superman. Which means that if we ever do a crossover with that world in the future, Clark and Jon would already be familiar with it.


Crisis on Infinite Earths ended with the Olympians offering Steve and Diana a home in their realm. While Wonder Woman doesn't need a time skip, being herself immortal, there's no harm in including one that's handed to you on a silver platter. Wonder Woman's 21st century debut, then, becomes a return of her and Steve Trevor from Olympus.

There are two catches with this idea: first, Steve's return would have political implications when he tries to reintegrate himself into the modern world — similar in many ways to that other Steve over in Marvel Comics. But second, if Steve and Diana were married before they left for Olympus, they'd still be married now. And conversely, if we don't want them to be married in the present, then we have to retroactively annul their marriage before the Crisis. I don't have much of a problem doing that, mind you; although that might cause some problems down the road if Lyta Trevor is ever referenced again. Is she Diana's daughter or Helena Kosmatos's daughter? Were her parents married, or was she born out of wedlock? Was she raised by Steve and Diana, or by Derek and Joan Trevor? There's a lot more wiggle room to work with here than you might think, considering that Diana was raised by the Amazons and they have their own views on matters involving sex, marriage, and child rearing; so the idea that Diana had a daughter out of wedlock and then handed her over to a worthy family (Derek and Joan) to raise her isn't entirely unreasonable. But it has a few ugly implications about Diana in particular and Thymescrian culture in general.

Finally, this this effectively reboots Wonder Woman again, I'd want to take this opportunity to restore Thymescrian technology into the mix: borrow heavily from Morrison's Earth One: Wonder Woman, with “Purple Ray” medical technology, invisible aircraft (though not airplanes or jets), “magic mirrors” or the like that allow for remote communication, and so on. With this, you could even retcon the aforementioned “Diana and Steve retreat to Olympus” as “Diana and Steve return to Thymescria”, with the purple ray technology gradually rejuvenating Steve stop that he's young again when he arrives at the start of the modern age of heroes.

My pet theory when it comes to Wonder Woman is to have as much of a 'clean break' between her past Golden Age/20th century incarnation and her Modern Age/21st century incarnation. And Pre-COIE stories actually give us some good rationales for that.

The way I see it, Golden Age Diana was 'killed' at some point and possibly reverted back to the clay she was formed from (what happened to Wonder Woman in COIE...in fact, going by your theory about COIE being the events that transfers the JSA from 1985 to the sliding timescale, it could be that she got killed during COIE as a JSA member). She's then resurrected on Themyscera, possibly with no memories, or few memories, of her past life. And then she returns to Man's World, either because of the alien invasion that led to the League's formation, or because Steve Trevor landed on Themyscera again. And yes, Steve would have been resurrected too by the Gods for whatever reason - as a gift to Diana, as a tool to manipulate her etc. Steve dying and being resurrected is also something from the Pre-COIE comics that can be used.

So that way, you can have a 'clean break' of sorts which allows the Post-COIE/Rebirth version of Diana arriving in the 'modern' day to Man's World with a modern Steve Trevor...while retaining their Golden Age past as well.

[bat39]

The critical timespans, IMHO, are ten years from Dick's debut to Tim's debut (if he was at Haley's circus when the Flying Graysons died, Tim couldn't have been much younger than three; and if he was any older, he's too close to Dick's age; and Tim was 13 in A Lonely Place of Dying); and ten years from Daughter of the Demon to Damian's debut (Morrison retconned Damian's conception from the post-Crisis Son of the Demon story to the 1971 first encounter between Bruce and Talia); and four years between Damian's debut and the present day. Tim was 19 when Damian became Robin. Using these figures, we get the following:

• Now (Dec 2022): Damian is 14. Tim is 22. Dick is 29. Bruce is 46.
• One year ago: DCU Rebirth (July 2016). Damian is 13. Tim is 21. Dick is 28. Bruce is 45.
• Three years ago: Dick becomes Batman; Damian becomes Robin; Tim becomes Red Robin (Aug 2009). Damian is 11. Tim is 19. Dick is 26. Bruce is 43.
• Four years ago: Damian is introduced to Bruce (Sept 2006). Damian is 10. Tim is 18. Dick is 25. Bruce is 42.
• Nine years ago: A Lonely Place of Dying (Oct 1989). Damian is 5. Tim is 13. Dick is 20. Bruce is 37.
• Fourteen years ago: Damian is born. Tim is 8. Dick is 15. Bruce is 32.
• Fifteen years ago: Daughter of the Demon (June 1971). Damian is conceived. Tim is 7. Dick is 14. Bruce is 31.
• Nineteen years ago: the Flying Graysons are murdered. Tim is 3. Dick is 10. Bruce is 27.
• Twenty-one years ago: Batman Year One. Tim is 1. Dick is 8. Bruce is 25.
• Thirty-eight years ago: the Waynes are murdered. Bruce is 8.

(I've bolded the ages that I used as starting points.)

Use this as the backbone of the overall sliding timeline. In particular, I've attached month and year of publication to every event that I could, excepting only Batman Year One and Batman Year 3/Dark Victory. The dates that those events originally occurred in the comics were 1939 and 1940, respectively, long before the start of the Silver Age.

Superman's debut should come first, of course; but he can predate Batman by mere months; put his debut at Twenty-one years ago, too. Wonder Woman's return comes after that; but I'd be fine placing that in the same year as Superman's and Batman's debuts. Historically, those three heroes and Robin were the only DC heroes to make the transition through the 1950s Interregnum, when superhero comics all but ceased publication; so setting their debuts about a year before the Silver Age starts in earnest seems appropriate to me.

Start the Silver Age with the Flash's debut in Showcase #4 (Oct 1956): that should be either twenty years ago (if you don't care about Robin predating the dawn of the Silver Age) or eighteen years ago (if you do). I don't, and I'd prefer to have as much time for Silver Age stories as possible; so I'd go with “twenty years ago” for Barry's debut. That gives us five years for the Silver Age (1956 to 1970). That's roughly a 3:1 ratio; as a rule of thumb, you could say that Twenty years ago cover 1956–1959, Nineteen years ago fevers 1959–1962, Eighteen years ago covers 1962–1965, Seventeen years ago covers 1965–1968, and Sixteen years ago covers 1968–1971.

Crisis on Infinite Earths happens before A Lonely Place of Dying; but not necessarily much before it: I could see it happening Ten years ago. That gives us another five year period to cover everything from 1971 to 1986. That's roughly a 2.5:1 ratio: 1971–1973 is Fifteen years ago, 1973–1976 is Fourteen years ago; 1976–1978 is Thirteen years ago; 1978–1981 is Twelve years ago; 1981–1983 is Eleven years ago; and 1983–1986 is ten years ago. And Nine years ago has to cover 1986 to 1989.

Nine years ago to Four years ago is 1989–2006; that's seventeen years of publication covering five years of events. But 2005–2006 was 52 and One Year Later; so it needs to be in real time. So we actually have Nine years ago to Six years ago (a three-year span) covering 1989–2005 (sixteen years of publication). That's a 5:1 ratio. So as a first draft, 1989–1995 is Eight years ago; 1995–2000 is Seven years ago; and 2000–2005 is Six years ago. As I said before, 2005–2006 is Five years ago.

2006 is Four years ago; 2009 is Three years ago; and 2016 is one year ago. I'm inclined to say that Flashpoint was two years ago. So: 2006–2009 is Four years ago; 2009–2011 is Three years ago; 2011–2016 is Two years ago; 2016–2020 is One year ago; and 2020–2022+ is Now.

That's my worksheet. I'll summarize in my next post.

Your timeline is my ideal timeline (even I reckon its been 21 years since Batman debuted). But DC/WB wants to keep the timeline a bit shorter. And when you compress the timeline, sadly, its the Pre-COIE era that's more likely to be literally squeezed, because it has fewer big 'events' that demand significant passage of time. Dick's career as Robin spanned over 40 years of publication history but in the larger scheme of big, continuity-shaping events, hardly anything really 'happened' during that time. So its easy to compress Dick's career as Robin to a few years, either by ageing him up when he becomes Robin, or making him younger when he leaves the role. Contrast that with Tim...he became Robin a little over 30 years ago in real-world publication history, but since then you've had so many 'big' events in Batman and DC history, so its very difficult to compress that into just a few years.

I mean, let's say you have something like 16 years to distribute between various eras of Batman's history. In real-life, Dick was Robin for a little over half of it. Do you say that of the 16 years in the sliding timeline, Dick Grayson was Robin for 8 of those years, when nothing much happened beyond the Dynamic Duo fighting the Rogue's Gallery? Or do you try to cut down on those years and 'allocate' more of them to Tim and Damian's times as Robin during which more major events happened - Knightfall, Contagion, No Man's Land, Batman RIP, Batman Inc, Endgame...and so on.

[Factor]

I like a lot of the ideas in this thread, except keeping Diana’s debut during WWII.
The Trinity being around during that time should be Earth-2’s hook.
Trying to keep that aspect in the current continuity only creates a very truncated story where there needs to be some convoluted explanation as to why she initially retired/died and then returned only to basically repeat a very similar trajectory (including falling in love with the same men who fell from the skies twice).
I’m all for trying to include as much past lore as possible, but some elements need to be edited out to have a comprehensive continuity. If Superman and Batman can live without the 30s debut, so can WW.

[Dataweaver]

DC Cinematic Universe: Diana left with Steve in the early 20th century, and never went back to Thymescria. Her 21st century appearance don't include any story involving Steve; that was strictly a 20th century thing.

DCAU: there was no Steve Trevor anywhere: Diana's reasons for leaving Paradise Island were completely unrelated to anything romantically inclined.

And then there's the option of Steve and Diana, or even just Steve, leaving Man's world after the First Age of Heroes is over, only to return sometime in the 21st century. The easiest way to do that would be to make him one of the 20th century people who gets transported to the 21st century by the Crisis. It does mean that the Silver/Bronze Age adventures of Wonder Woman would have to be edited to do away with Steve's presence, as he wouldn't appear in the 21st century until after the Bronze Age is over; but frankly, the bulk of those stories aren't worth saving: how can poor Diana get ruggedly handsome Steve to fall in love with her when he's pining over Wonder Woman? :eyeroll: There's a reason why the Silver Age title killed off Steve Trevor at least once: the Steve/Diana ship needs careful navigation or it's liable to crash and burn. So having her operate without him around for a time isn't the worst idea in the world.

I wouldn't transport Diana to the 21st century that way; she wouldn't be around for the founding of the Justice League if we did. But she could continue on after Steve vanishes, or the two of them could retire together to Thymescria or Olympus until such time as events in the outside world draw them back. That latter option wouldn't be “double dipping”; it would be the same Steve Trevor the second time around. And it wouldn't be “repeating a similar romantic arc”; it would be continuing the same romantic arc, picking up where they left off.

And finally, there's the Wonder Woman '77 solution: there are two Steve Trevors, one in the 20th century and another in the 21st century. Diana would have a romance with the former; but not necessarily with the latter. If this option gets used, I'd want to make the two Steves different from each other in some way: different appearances, different personalities; something to make it obvious that despite having the same name, they're not the same person. And the name thing can easily be explained by having them be related, and having the contemporary one be named after his famous 20th century relative.

There are many ways that it could work, some very simple and other more complex. But none of them require the story of Wonder Woman in the 21st century to be a carbon copy of the story of Wonder Woman in the 20th century.

[Factor]

But what is the point in creating convoluted explanations as to how she's been around that long if DC is not willing to write her in a way that would actually reflect her status as the world's first hero?
Her having debuted first should have major ramifications for the DCU and for how Diana acts and is perceived.
Yet somehow she's at best the third most relevant hero in the present and isn't portrayed as having more baggage or maturity than her peers beyond the obvious differences that come from her Amazon upbringing.
DC is not ready to give the concept of WW as the first hero the exploration it would need. They just want to keep writing her as usual, but attaching to her a clumsy backstory that doesn't really fit who she is currently.

[Ascended]

But what is the point in creating convoluted explanations as to how she's been around that long if DC is not willing to write her in a way that would actually reflect her status as the world's first hero?

An excellent point, and something for us to keep in mind. It's great fun trying to make DC's history work, and trying to do that within the confines of the actual publication is a solid challenge; who doesn't enjoy taking chaos and unknotting it, folding it into something orderly?

But if you're not providing a compelling story that can easily be followed? Kinda defeats the purpose right? The first goal with DC history should always be to make it accessible and fun, and something that can enrich stories being told now. Second priority is keeping it as close to the actual publishing as is reasonable. What we usually have is a mess of contradictions that make stories bend over backwards trying to justify, change, or ignore that history, and I don't know if anyone finds that very fun (maybe sometimes, but not with how often DC does it).

As for Diana being around in World War II....it's not needed of course, and nothing's been done with the idea since it was dropped in the final days of Didio's reign so it doesn't really help the argument that it'd have a positive impact on the franchise. We don't "need" it. But there's some interesting things you could do with that, and it'd be a way to retain Diana's Golden Age history in a way that Clark and Bruce haven't been allowed to. And it's not a hard transition to make; Diana saves the day in the 40's, she and Steve retire to Themyscria until Clark shows up and ushers in the Age of Heroes, and then Diana and Steve return to Man's World.

It even provides a fix for Etta Candy. Diana befriended the overweight white college girl in the 40's, and then befriends Etta's biracial Argus agent granddaughter (great granddaughter?) when she returns in the modern day.

Consider Diana's history is broken and screwed up to a degree only Hawkman can relate to, I think it'd serve her well to keep that Golden Age stuff, if possible. But it's definitely not required, and should be done only if it can be done smoothly, without messing up DC continuity more than it already is, and if DC and the writers intend on doing something with it. Lean into that history and use it, or don't bother putting it back, yknow?

[Dataweaver]

It's also worth noting that The New Golden Age has referenced Wonder Woman in the 1940s; and it's possible that as Huntress bounces through time in the new JSA series, she might encounter Diana in the past. Johns also seems to be trying to restore elements of the Golden Age Batman and maybe even Superman as well; but what he's doing there is convoluted: to the extent that Superman and Batman are connected to the Justice Society, they're connected to a potential future Justice Society: one set within 18 years or so from now, and eight years prior to Helena's JSA. And in the spirit of trying to salvage as much history as possible, if I had my 'druthers, I'd also introduce a new Robin from that future: Dick Grayson Jr., son of Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon. Think of a way to transfer him from that future into the past, and you can edit him into the JSA of 1976 alongside Power Girl and Star Spangled Kid (and, later, Huntress).

By comparison to that, putting Wonder Woman back into the 1940s JSA is dead simple. The only complication is how to transition her from the 20th century to the 21st century.

[Ascended]

Whoops, sorry. Ignore this post.

[Dataweaver]

Whoops, sorry. Ignore this post.

Why ignore it? I rather like the notion of taking her “mod years” and using them as “what she was doing between 1985 and Superman's debut”.

[Factor]

An excellent point, and something for us to keep in mind. It's great fun trying to make DC's history work, and trying to do that within the confines of the actual publication is a solid challenge; who doesn't enjoy taking chaos and unknotting it, folding it into something orderly?

But if you're not providing a compelling story that can easily be followed? Kinda defeats the purpose right? The first goal with DC history should always be to make it accessible and fun, and something that can enrich stories being told now. Second priority is keeping it as close to the actual publishing as is reasonable. What we usually have is a mess of contradictions that make stories bend over backwards trying to justify, change, or ignore that history, and I don't know if anyone finds that very fun (maybe sometimes, but not with how often DC does it).

As for Diana being around in World War II....it's not needed of course, and nothing's been done with the idea since it was dropped in the final days of Didio's reign so it doesn't really help the argument that it'd have a positive impact on the franchise. We don't "need" it. But there's some interesting things you could do with that, and it'd be a way to retain Diana's Golden Age history in a way that Clark and Bruce haven't been allowed to. And it's not a hard transition to make; Diana saves the day in the 40's, she and Steve retire to Themyscria until Clark shows up and ushers in the Age of Heroes, and then Diana and Steve return to Man's World.

It even provides a fix for Etta Candy. Diana befriended the overweight white college girl in the 40's, and then befriends Etta's biracial Argus agent granddaughter (great granddaughter?) when she returns in the modern day.

Consider Diana's history is broken and screwed up to a degree only Hawkman can relate to, I think it'd serve her well to keep that Golden Age stuff, if possible. But it's definitely not required, and should be done only if it can be done smoothly, without messing up DC continuity more than it already is, and if DC and the writers intend on doing something with it. Lean into that history and use it, or don't bother putting it back, yknow?

I don't like the implications of Diana retiring while she's still in her prime. She just turns her back on Man's World to be with Steve until Superman shows up and reminds her that heroes are still needed?
I think we would need a really good story to explain all the blanks in logic but, like I said, that's just not something DC will ever satisfyingly do.
They just want to say she's been around for all these years without giving it much thought as to how that could make sense with her characterization and status in-universe.

[Ascended]

Eh, I realized I basically just said the same thing a post or three above. Diana's not hard to keep as a Golden Ager, her supporting cast is easy to bring along, blah blah blah

Glad you like the mod years being (part of?) Diana's "in between Justice teams" era though. That was just an off the cuff comment but it's kind of a fun concept right?

I don't like the implications of Diana retiring while she's still in her prime. She just turns her back on Man's World to be with Steve until Superman shows up and reminds her that heroes are still needed?

Perhaps she leaves because she thinks she's fulfilled her mission. She helped Man defeat the great evil in WWII while women around the world carried the burden of keeping their nations working, earning their own paychecks etc. Maybe she thinks we're pointed in the right direction and she's done what she set out to do, so when the gods say "good job kid, come on home" she doesn't question it. Amazon culture doesn't regress, or backslide, Diana wouldn't expect us to. Why doesn't she just stay? Maybe she isn't given a choice about it. Maybe she misses home.

Why doesn't she return sooner? Maybe she can't. Maybe Themyscria isn't an easy trip. Maybe she doesn't know that Man's World needs her back. Maybe she doesn't even think of a few decades as a "long" time. She is immortal in this scenario after all. From her perspective it might be a "I turn my back for a couple measly decades and look what you break! How did you do this so fast?"

And I doubt anyone here is thinking of "retirement" as Diana just sitting on the beach sipping vodka tonics. I think we'd all assume she'd still be having wild adventures right? It's Themyscria, there's Doom's Doorway and the gods are constantly treating the Amazons like pawns, there's monsters like hydra roaming the Island, covens of harpies, cyclops...cyclopsi? cyclopseseses? Not to mention other realms she could visit, Skartaris, Gem World, etc. There's plenty of trouble for Diana to find, and a lot of it would impact earth either directly or indirectly so we'd still owe her some thanks.

And if she stays on earth between Justice teams the mod era covers everything and keeps her active without being public.

I think we would need a really good story to explain all the blanks in logic but, like I said, that's just not something DC will ever satisfyingly do.

They're not ever gonna provide a satisfying and coherent timeline for anyone else either, but we're still discussing it.