Are the bracelets useless?

[wonder39]

You do realize that Adamantium IS the metal the Gods use in Greek myth, right? It's not just a Marvel thing...

Also, Feminum sounds incredibly more stupid than Amazonium, so I really don't much care for it. especially if all it does is the same thing anyway.

You do realize in this context, it's a Marvel thing.
Because (1) it's mainly known in Marvel continuity and

(2) you're talking about adamantine and

(3)Diana's bracelets have never been made, in any part, of Adamantine ( nor adamantium) ... I've listed what they have been officially made of in the context of the comics.

Whether the name is goofy or not doesn't negate what they were made of in the comics.

[bardkeep]

I don't want to hear any "she's weak to man-made stuff as a thematic" because you have Wonder Woman being easily dispatched by the most common replacement for pathetic men's sense of self-worth: guns. It's weak, especially when we have Batman taking Joker's revolver point-blank to the head and getting a headache at best, or you know, surviving re-entry with his underwear on his face.

Hot take, if she MUST have a special weakness (I don't necessarily think she does) and the goal is something with thematic weight I'd prefer the GA "can't let a man weld her gauntlets together" weakness to vulnerability to bullets. It's problematic in a lot of ways, but the symbolic significance is crystal clear, it's creative, and it's not as boring or beholden to real-world baggage as guns.

She should never be hurt by a bullet IMO, whether that's because she always successfully blocks them, she's bulletproof, she heals super fast, or some combination of the three. If a bullet is a real lethal threat it's hard to excuse her not wearing actual armor...

Also, Feminum sounds incredibly more stupid than Amazonium, so I really don't much care for it. especially if all it does is the same thing anyway.

Counterpoint, Feminum is the coolest name ever and they should bring it up more often.

[Robanker]

The funny part to me is you can get a diabetic monitoring kit and demonstrate the viability of the paradigm. It functions.Bullets would have a harder time than needles or arrow tips though

If Superman or a New God can punch a hole in a mountain and she can withstand that, there's no real velocity where a bullet is going to puncture her flesh without coming across as incredibly ham-fisted. This isn't apples to oranges, it's apples to tactical nuclear strikes. Diana being vulnerable to bullets is dumb.

[wonder39]

If Superman or a New God can punch a hole in a mountain and she can withstand that, there's no real velocity where a bullet is going to puncture her flesh without coming across as incredibly ham-fisted. This isn't apples to oranges, it's apples to tactical nuclear strikes. Diana being vulnerable to bullets is dumb.

But a solar powered guy can fly and somehow Batman does everything he does... This other guy can run crazy fast and this one over here uses a ring to make things.

.....

[Agent Z]

But a solar powered guy can fly and somehow Batman does everything he does...

Yeah and people criticize that all the time. Just look at the recent comments on Zdarsky's Batman run.

This other guy can run crazy fast and this one over here uses a ring to make things.

.....

Not remotely the same thing. You're just describing these guys' powers.

[greatmetropolitan]

This whole discussion feels like the same problem as the Should the Contest Be Erased thread. People want the trappings of original WW comics but also want her to be on par with Superman physically. Like, you can have Diana compete with other Amazons to be WW and you can have her bounce bullets with the bracelets, but neither are easily compatible with her being Superman-level in physical stats, as that renders the contest and the bracelets useless.

The contest, the bracelets etc are all great flavour and background for WW, and I think the worst thing that you can do to Diana as a character is compare her to Superman or demand a kind of boring power level parity.

Also, I'm not saying that the bracelets, contest etc can't co-exist with a very powerful Diana, but there's narrative hoops to jump through to get there. And there's also a level of a section of WW fans who demand Diana be extra extra special and borderline, if not entirely, flawless/without weakness. That's boring. There seems to be a demand for Diana to be moulded from clay AND blessed by the gods AND the most skilled amazon in the contest, bouncing bullets with her bracelets that she doesn't have to because she's utterly invincible anyway and fast enough to catch the bullets of the air (rendering them harmless, rather than deflecting them everywhere), flying around in her invisible jet which she doesn't need because she can fly anyway. A lot of Diana's unique attributes get rendered useless because she's got to be Superman But A Woman.

I like the idea of the bracelets as almost religious iconography for Amazons, but then you need to accept that they're purely decorative. The visual of Diana deflecting the bullets with the bracelets is frankly much cooler.

[Perseus]

Hot take, if she MUST have a special weakness (I don't necessarily think she does) and the goal is something with thematic weight I'd prefer the GA "can't let a man weld her gauntlets together" weakness to vulnerability to bullets. It's problematic in a lot of ways, but the symbolic significance is crystal clear, it's creative, and it's not as boring or beholden to real-world baggage as guns.

She should never be hurt by a bullet IMO, whether that's because she always successfully blocks them, she's bulletproof, she heals super fast, or some combination of the three. If a bullet is a real lethal threat it's hard to excuse her not wearing actual armor...



Counterpoint, Feminum is the coolest name ever and they should bring it up more often.

I would agree with that normally, but then I remember the absolute low standards writers have for Diana being in a position that would injure her, i.e. a bullet bounces off of Superman's chest or there's just too many bullets for the faster than light woman to block, and I fear the situations she would be in to be bound. Like she's already super inconsistent and gets parried up with street levelers or is just background decor on a team book, I don't want a 'deathstroke was just too good of a fighter and beat Diana off panel and now she's bound and has no powers atm'. Remember in Red Son Superman, the same thing happened with Batman beating her and lassoing her off panel to get to Clark.

I can't number the times I've brought up the fact that I have a legit list of better, more plausible, and creative weaknesses for her than just regular old bullets.

Counter-counterpoint, there should be a handful of rare minerals on Themyscira than just one or two and each do a different thing/look different too. Feminum should be the rarest of the rare, hence we never hear of it, thank the patrons.

[Perseus]

But a solar powered guy can fly and somehow Batman does everything he does... This other guy can run crazy fast and this one over here uses a ring to make things.

.....

These are just powers.... not vulnerabilities or weaknesses. Green Lantern is no longer weak to the color yellow because it was a stupid weakness, that's why they got rid of it. A woman as powerful as Diana should not be vulnerable to bullets.

[Perseus]

This whole discussion feels like the same problem as the Should the Contest Be Erased thread. People want the trappings of original WW comics but also want her to be on par with Superman physically. Like, you can have Diana compete with other Amazons to be WW and you can have her bounce bullets with the bracelets, but neither are easily compatible with her being Superman-level in physical stats, as that renders the contest and the bracelets useless.

The contest, the bracelets etc are all great flavour and background for WW, and I think the worst thing that you can do to Diana as a character is compare her to Superman or demand a kind of boring power level parity.

Also, I'm not saying that the bracelets, contest etc can't co-exist with a very powerful Diana, but there's narrative hoops to jump through to get there. And there's also a level of a section of WW fans who demand Diana be extra extra special and borderline, if not entirely, flawless/without weakness. That's boring. There seems to be a demand for Diana to be moulded from clay AND blessed by the gods AND the most skilled amazon in the contest, bouncing bullets with her bracelets that she doesn't have to because she's utterly invincible anyway and fast enough to catch the bullets of the air (rendering them harmless, rather than deflecting them everywhere), flying around in her invisible jet which she doesn't need because she can fly anyway. A lot of Diana's unique attributes get rendered useless because she's got to be Superman But A Woman.

I like the idea of the bracelets as almost religious iconography for Amazons, but then you need to accept that they're purely decorative. The visual of Diana deflecting the bullets with the bracelets is frankly much cooler.

I don't think one person on here wants 'Superman with ****', DC has Supergirl for that. You could argue Kratos or Thor with **** but that's probably it.

I will argue that just because Diana was sculpted from clay doesn't have to make her powerful enough to move the cosmos to begin with. She could just be sculpted and have superhuman amazon stats to start with. She would later get her powers via communion with the patrons after winning the contest. I like to think that's how Nubia is/should be to be on par with her. You get the contest and get her as powerful as she should be, easily having cake and eating it too. The amazons have advanced tech, I'm sure they have projectiles that move faster than a bullet for the inevitable tie breaker at the end of the contest. And the jet could be for traveling with more than one person, Superman's pals also need a ride when he goes into space right?

[Agent Z]

Also, I'm not saying that the bracelets, contest etc can't co-exist with a very powerful Diana, but there's narrative hoops to jump through to get there. And there's also a level of a section of WW fans who demand Diana be extra extra special and borderline, if not entirely, flawless/without weakness. That's boring.

No one is demanding this.

There seems to be a demand for Diana to be moulded from clay AND blessed by the gods AND the most skilled amazon in the contest, bouncing bullets with her bracelets that she doesn't have to because she's utterly invincible anyway and fast enough to catch the bullets of the air (rendering them harmless, rather than deflecting them everywhere), flying around in her invisible jet which she doesn't need because she can fly anyway. A lot of Diana's unique attributes get rendered useless because she's got to be Superman But A Woman.

It seems you're taking a bunch of different opinions and lumping them all as being from the same group.

Superman fans can take it for granted that he isn't invincible so I don't see why Diana having comparable powers is an issue. I also don't get why she gets singled out for being a Superman clone as opposed to the numerous other Superman clones running around, including the very little teenage clone. At least Diana no longer has a secret identity who wears glasses and is considered a loser by her love interest (unless they also bring that idiocy back).

And frankly, it's telling that most of the defenses of the bracelets boil down to "they were always there" and "it looks cool".

[Rightoya]

This whole discussion feels like the same problem as the Should the Contest Be Erased thread. People want the trappings of original WW comics but also want her to be on par with Superman physically. Like, you can have Diana compete with other Amazons to be WW and you can have her bounce bullets with the bracelets, but neither are easily compatible with her being Superman-level in physical stats, as that renders the contest and the bracelets useless.

What counts as the original comics for this claim, because i don't get the impression that a being like this should be very scarred of something as mundane as little pieces of metal that fly with at best a couple of mach through the air:






, not even a being like this should even remotely care about bullets:

The contest, the bracelets etc are all great flavour and background for WW, and I think the worst thing that you can do to Diana as a character is compare her to Superman or demand a kind of boring power level parity.

So the creator of Wonder Woman has totally ruined the character by creating the character with explicitly that intention:

“Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.”

― William Moulton Marston

Also, I'm not saying that the bracelets, contest etc can't co-exist with a very powerful Diana, but there's narrative hoops to jump through to get there. And there's also a level of a section of WW fans who demand Diana be extra extra special and borderline, if not entirely, flawless/without weakness. That's boring.

So Superman is boring because he is allegedly flawless, or what is your actual point?

There seems to be a demand for Diana to be moulded from clay AND blessed by the gods AND the most skilled amazon in the contest

Depowering Wonder Woman for the contest by her performing some ritual as example would easily solve that, and is just 1 of countless options.

bouncing bullets with her bracelets that she doesn't have to because she's utterly invincible anyway

Why should trained warriors let themselves get hit by opposing weapons? Using that would be the easiest way for any smart enemy to trick them, by using far more dangerous projectiles than bullets, or put something inside the bullets.

and fast enough to catch the bullets of the air (rendering them harmless, rather than deflecting them everywhere)

If you want to open the big speed discussion, easily at least 90% of all comics with super-speed characters need to get rewritten, and the comics of Flash and other speedsters even more than Wonder Woman's or Superman's comics.

flying around in her invisible jet which she doesn't need because she can fly anyway.

Who even truly demands that Wonder Woman needs to fly around in her invisible jet, and what speaks against her just using the jet to transport others through space as a good example?

A lot of Diana's unique attributes get rendered useless because she's got to be Superman But A Woman.

I don't remember any cool stories that were cool because Wonder Woman was explicitly inferior to Superman, do you have any examples?

I like the idea of the bracelets as almost religious iconography for Amazons, but then you need to accept that they're purely decorative. The visual of Diana deflecting the bullets with the bracelets is frankly much cooler.

Or she just still deflect bullets just to be sure, and mostly uses them against much more dangerous things than bullets.

[Rightoya]

And WW does not? She had fast healing in PreCrisis, the TV show, post Crisis, and during volume 3 with Gail's run. So the lack of fast healing surely cannot be a reason since she has had that across multiple runs in the comics and multiple media interpretations

I don't remember anything like this from Wonder Woman:





, and Wolverine also still don't operates on a level where bullets just look pathetic, heck Wonder Woman don't even has any notable villains who are a threat and use bullets at all.

[WonderScott]

Nah… they just need to ditch the sword and shield as part of her accoutrements. She doesn’t need them.

They’re unique and a gift from the gods made from the indestructible aegis of Zeus. They’re also part of her culture as all Amazons wear them and have at least some sort of ability with them in battle - just not the same as Diana, Donna or Cassie.

All that aside they’re unique to her. Let Captain America keep the shield.

Sidenote: I’d love to read an Amazon scientist breakdown the properties of Amazonium and Feminum to us sometime.

[wonder39]

Yeah and people criticize that all the time. Just look at the recent comments on Zdarsky's Batman run.



Not remotely the same thing. You're just describing these guys' powers.

I'm talking about the ridiculousness of applying real world physics to comics ... So it still applies.

None of it makes any kind of sense in the real world, so just go with it and have fun.

[wonder39]

These are just powers.... not vulnerabilities or weaknesses. Green Lantern is no longer weak to the color yellow because it was a stupid weakness, that's why they got rid of it. A woman as powerful as Diana should not be vulnerable to bullets.

I'm talking about applying real world physics to comics.

Nothing makes sense if you do that.