James Gunn's Superman Coming In 2025

[Vordan]

I think Gunn will probably go down the lesser known characters route, he can't change Brainiac into what he'd want since the character is one of Superman's more well-known villains and has appeared in a lot of Superman media over the years. Maybe he'll dip into one of those forgotten one-off pre-crisis characters?

No way. Stuff like Creature Commandoes or Waller are where you’ll see Gunn fully indulge his love for lessers known properties, but a big tentpole movie, one meant to kick off the new DC Cinematic Universe? You do not go with an obscure Z-Lister from Pre-Crisis that only Mark Waid would know. Take a look at how poorly Shazam 2 is projected to open as evidence of what happens when you don’t have an established successful shared universe to get people to go check out a movie full of C-Listers.

For Legacy the two most likely choices are Brainiac or Lobo. Or, as Myskin suggests, one big mastermind villain who is the overall threat (which would be Brainiac, Lex, or Ultra-Humanite) and a bunch of lesser known villains working for him (which is how we could get someone like Bloodsport in the movie). I could see a plot like Arkham Origins where Lex or Intergang or whoever puts a bounty on Superman’s head, and then a whole bunch of villains try to collect. I think that was the basic premise of Up, Up, and Away.

[Myskin]

For Legacy the two most likely choices are Brainiac or Lobo. Or, as Myskin suggests, one big mastermind villain who is the overall threat (which would be Brainiac, Lex, or Ultra-Humanite) and a bunch of lesser known villains working for him (which is how we could get someone like Bloodsport in the movie). I could see a plot like Arkham Origins where Lex or Intergang or whoever puts a bounty on Superman’s head, and then a whole bunch of villains try to collect. I think that was the basic premise of Up, Up, and Away.

I doubt that it will be Lobo (even if Lobo MAY actually be in the movie) for one reason - Lobo is not a Superman villain technically and actually I don't think that he can be considered a villain at all. He's something between an anti-hero and a parody of a bounty hunter, and even if he and Superman may occasionally exchange punches I doubt that Gunn will make him THE antagonist of the movie, especially since he may be already planning a solo movie with Momoa in the main role (and Lobo, to a degree, is even more "Gunnian" than Superman and Supergirl themselves).
Again, I see Intergang, or Superman Revenge Squad, or Elite as more likely candidates with ONE specific mastermind behind it all, and the only mastermind I can think of is Brainiac. Or Lex in some version which we have never seen so far on the big screen, the mad doctor one or the armored one. But I don't think that Lex will be in this. And I feel quite sure that we won't see Zod anytime anywhere for a very long time. Heck, Bar-El or Jax-Ur or the Phantom King are more likely than Zod at this point.

[Ascended]

Oh I think you're totally right that we could see several tiers of bad guys, with a puppet master at the end. That *is* a very Gunn approach, I don't disagree. And Brainiac *is* the most likely option. Only one I'd bet on, actually.

I'm just saying, Brainiac would be a tad redundant, we've had alien attacks in every Super appearance this last decade. Brainiac is unique enough to stand out, and the narrative structure could be entirely different, but still. Another alien. And Clark's rogues gallery has enough in it that Brainiac isn't the *only* option even if he's the most logical, most likely, arguably best one.

[Vordan]

I doubt that it will be Lobo (even if Lobo MAY actually be in the movie) for one reason - Lobo is not a Superman villain technically and actually I don't think that he can be considered a villain at all. He's something between an anti-hero and a parody of a bounty hunter, and even if he and Superman may occasionally exchange punches I doubt that Gunn will make him THE antagonist of the movie, especially since he may be already planning a solo movie with Momoa in the main role (and Lobo, to a degree, is even more "Gunnian" than Superman and Supergirl themselves).
Again, I see Intergang, or Superman Revenge Squad, or Elite as more likely candidates with ONE specific mastermind behind it all, and the only mastermind I can think of is Brainiac. Or Lex in some version which we have never seen so far on the big screen, the mad doctor one or the armored one. But I don't think that Lex will be in this. And I feel quite sure that we won't see Zod anytime anywhere for a very long time. Heck, Bar-El or Jax-Ur or the Phantom King are more likely than Zod at this point.

Lobo is like Deathstroke in that while he was not intended to be a “proper” Superman Rogue, that hasn’t stopped creators from pitting him against Supes. Changes are always made in adaptions, Ego is not Star-Lord’s father in the comics as an example of Gunn himself breaking with canon. But I don’t think Lobo will be in Legacy either, I think he will fill the role in the Supergirl movie that Krem did in the comic.

Given the subject matter is supposed to be Clark grappling with his heritage, Brainiac makes the most sense because otherwise the only two villains who fit the best for that kind of theme are… Lex and Zod.

[Myskin]

Oh I think you're totally right that we could see several tiers of bad guys, with a puppet master at the end. That *is* a very Gunn approach, I don't disagree. And Brainiac *is* the most likely option. Only one I'd bet on, actually.

I'm just saying, Brainiac would be a tad redundant, we've had alien attacks in every Super appearance this last decade. Brainiac is unique enough to stand out, and the narrative structure could be entirely different, but still. Another alien. And Clark's rogues gallery has enough in it that Brainiac isn't the *only* option even if he's the most logical, most likely, arguably best one.

I agree, but two things: 1- everyone wants Brainiac at this point, not a b-lister nor Lex or Zod all over again, and 2- Gunn needs to ignite this stuff in the strongest way possible. Also: there are couple of Brainiac storylines that yes, work as alien invasions but in a very specific way - I'm thinking of the cyberpunk upgrade for Metropolis in 2000 or something like that.
The main problem IMHO is the budget, because if they don't want or CAN'T spend too much their Brainiac ship will look like crap. But there are other possibilities, of course. Brainiac could appear in a Legacy sequel with Supes and Supergirl, or even become the big bad of the DCU after Darkseid (because let's face it, unless Tom King is directly involved no one can stand Darkseid anymore). Which I would hate, but it's a possibility. But ok, just my speculation: if they want to keep Brainiac for a sequel, they can let Superman and Elite face a Bizarro invasion and some rogues in the movie and Solaris - who is a more straightforward villain - at the end. And Solaris appears in All-Star, now that I think about it.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think this movie would be cost effective..So i don't think they are gonna touch brainiac.
They are doing an authority movie.Lobo is gonna be in the mix.So,the idea would be to have contrast and lead to resolution.

[DABellWrites]

No way. Stuff like Creature Commandoes or Waller are where you’ll see Gunn fully indulge his love for lessers known properties, but a big tentpole movie, one meant to kick off the new DC Cinematic Universe? You do not go with an obscure Z-Lister from Pre-Crisis that only Mark Waid would know. Take a look at how poorly Shazam 2 is projected to open as evidence of what happens when you don’t have an established successful shared universe to get people to go check out a movie full of C-Listers.

For Legacy the two most likely choices are Brainiac or Lobo. Or, as Myskin suggests, one big mastermind villain who is the overall threat (which would be Brainiac, Lex, or Ultra-Humanite) and a bunch of lesser known villains working for him (which is how we could get someone like Bloodsport in the movie). I could see a plot like Arkham Origins where Lex or Intergang or whoever puts a bounty on Superman’s head, and then a whole bunch of villains try to collect. I think that was the basic premise of Up, Up, and Away.

To be honest, was anyone expecting Shazam 2 to do better numbers? Like, the first film did okay. I expect the second film to do just about the same. Eh, I don't think you need a established shared universe to get people interested. James Gunn was born in 1966, he was old enough to remember some pre-crisis, if he was reading back then.

[Myskin]

To be honest, was anyone expecting Shazam 2 to do better numbers?

IMHO it could have, with the Secret Society of Evil, the Seven Kingdoms of Magic, Sivana and Mr Mind. Or Black Adam.
I'll never understand why they decided to go with lame villains that didn't even appear in the comic book in the first place.

[Ascended]

I agree, but two things: 1- everyone wants Brainiac at this point, not a b-lister nor Lex or Zod all over again, and 2- Gunn needs to ignite this stuff in the strongest way possible. Also: there are couple of Brainiac storylines that yes, work as alien invasions but in a very specific way - I'm thinking of the cyberpunk upgrade for Metropolis in 2000 or something like that.

I do expect Brainiac, if not here in Legacy then in Supergirl. Better be Legacy, if anywhere; I'm beyond sick of Clark's stuff being taken from him so someone else can play with the cool toys.

And yeah everyone wants Brainiac, but....WB hasn't really cared about what we want in the past, and maybe Gunn's better than that, but I'll believe it when we see it. I got tired of saying "maybe the new guy at WB gets it" a few "new guys" ago. Gunn *does* need this movie to be a big win, and that *does* support using the best and biggest assets available, and Brainiac fits. He fits really well actually, given what little we know of the film, if they use his Kryptonian AI origin.

You keep mentioning the Elite. Are they actually involved and I missed the announcement or is that just you theory crafting? I'd be down with Manchester Black showing up. Hell that man could be the main villain of the movie, he's got the juice to carry it off. Are there any Brit punk rockers young enough to play him, or are we just gonna use some de-aging cgi on Billy Idol?

To be honest, was anyone expecting Shazam 2 to do better numbers?

Honestly, yeah a little bit. The first film was a nice sleeper hit that seemed to get good audience reception. I think it would've been easy to build the sequel up to a bigger box office. I don't think it would've hit a billion or anything crazy, but it could've turned a respectable and slightly larger profit than the last one. The trailers aren't doing a great job of selling the unique elements of the franchise, I don't think, and the villains look pretty basic (tho I'm sure the actresses will knock it outta the park).

Had we gotten a weird, family-focused trailer with some weird, strange villains like Mind and the Monster Society that leaned into the charm of the IP I think there'd be more hype around it and higher opening projections. A stronger marketing push would've done wonders too I think, this film feels like it's totally under the wave and even WB isn't interested in promoting it.

[Frontier]

I agree, but two things: 1- everyone wants Brainiac at this point, not a b-lister nor Lex or Zod all over again, and 2- Gunn needs to ignite this stuff in the strongest way possible. Also: there are couple of Brainiac storylines that yes, work as alien invasions but in a very specific way - I'm thinking of the cyberpunk upgrade for Metropolis in 2000 or something like that.
The main problem IMHO is the budget, because if they don't want or CAN'T spend too much their Brainiac ship will look like crap. But there are other possibilities, of course. Brainiac could appear in a Legacy sequel with Supes and Supergirl, or even become the big bad of the DCU after Darkseid (because let's face it, unless Tom King is directly involved no one can stand Darkseid anymore). Which I would hate, but it's a possibility. But ok, just my speculation: if they want to keep Brainiac for a sequel, they can let Superman and Elite face a Bizarro invasion and some rogues in the movie and Solaris - who is a more straightforward villain - at the end. And Solaris appears in All-Star, now that I think about it.

I feel like there's a good chance Lex is in it just not as the main villain.

Kind of like how Man of Tomorrow used him.

[Myskin]

You keep mentioning the Elite. Are they actually involved and I missed the announcement or is that just you theory crafting?

There are literally zero mentions of the Elite so far in any form. The only reason I thought Black may be involved is because A- Gunn seems to be doing something related with Superman's morality, B- The second movie in the DCU slate is about The Authority, C- Gunn digs Morrison and there has been a recent Morrison story involving both Authority/Elite and Supes (whether they call it Authority or Elite is more or less irrelevant to me, at least in its current version), D- it would mesh well with Gunn's love for scruffy, morally gray characters and his approach to DC heroes, which seems to be guiding him even in his DCU plans. Aside from that, for all I know the movie could be about Jimmy Olsen marrying a gorilla and the Superman of sand.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think it's might not be black and superman's authority..but the og authority gunn wants.

[Vordan]

Gunn did float the idea that Superman could show up in the Authority movie. Given DC is just straight up using the real deal I don’t think they’ll be using the expies, only exception is that I could see Manchester Black being on the Authority and getting disposed for Jenny. Would be just as easy to leave Black out too, and Gunn’s teases on social media seem to indicate he’s going with the classic Ellis/Millar lineup.

My guess is Superman meets the Authority and that is the impetus for the JL to form. He sees how they operate and balks at the ruthlessness of their methods, then forms the JL to basically set the rules for how metahumans operate.

[Ascended]

There are literally zero mentions of the Elite so far in any form.

Ah okay. Well I don't disagree that Black showing up would fit what we know of Gunn's plans. I'd be cool with it, Black is a fantastic villain.

I suspect he'll be using the Miller era Authority for the most part, but I don't expect him to limit himself to that particular cast. Won't be surprised if they put Black on the team, either in place of someone like Jenny or in addition to. Gunn has never been slavish to the source material.

My guess is Superman meets the Authority and that is the impetus for the JL to form. He sees how they operate and balks at the ruthlessness of their methods, then forms the JL to basically set the rules for how metahumans operate.

It seems perfectly possible, assuming these films are on a linear time table. I question if that's actually the case; I feel like I read somewhere that Gunn said Clark and Bruce would be around the same age, give or take a couple years, but Legacy has a young-ish Clark somewhere around year 2, while the Batman film is giving us a whole Bat family and Damian. So either Gunn is gonna try to shorten Bruce's career New52 style, or bring Damian in before almost anyone else, or these films will be set in different points in time, much like how Morrison's opening Action arc was a "five years ago" flashback.

[Myskin]

Ah okay. Well I don't disagree that Black showing up would fit what we know of Gunn's plans. I'd be cool with it, Black is a fantastic villain.

I suspect he'll be using the Miller era Authority for the most part, but I don't expect him to limit himself to that particular cast. Won't be surprised if they put Black on the team, either in place of someone like Jenny or in addition to. Gunn has never been slavish to the source material.

Whether it's Elite, Authority, Stormwatch or whatever, and assuming that my speculation is true, one thing's for sure though - I have serious doubts that we are going to see another case of Superman teaching other harsh, violent heroes how to behave in a "moral" way. It would be against Gunn's love for the underdogs and the anti-heroes, and quite frankly it would make Superman astonishingly, stupidly boring.
What I think we are going to see is - in this and other movies - groups of ruthless self-professed heroes who behave in a gratuitously violent way (more or less like the original incarnation of the Elite) and grayer characters like the heroes of the original version of the Authority, who may even use lethal force if necessary but are - in their own personal way - moral. How this may mesh with Superman and his old-fashioned morality - if that is the direction the DCU is taking - is Gunn's problem. But I am under the impression - even from Brave and the Bold and Supergirl - Woman of Tomorrow - that an overarching theme in this first phase of the DCU may actually be the relationship between the heroes and someone else animated by a sense of revenge and excessive violence, who may be Damian Wayne, the Authority or the little girl from Tom King's Supergirl.