James Gunn's Superman Coming In 2025

[manwhohaseverything]

I kinda think gunn would have done legacy with cavill.But,since black adam didn't work.they decided to scrap the whole thing.

I am also getting the feeling superman might be used in the new frontier kinda way.After he "set" up as the "inspiration" figure.they gonna focus on legacy of the character like kara or steel or whatever they have in mind.

[Ascended]

How many of you are hoping Brainiac is the bad guy?

Yes and no.

Obviously Brainiac is a fantastic villain and we're long past due for a movie appearance. But every DCEU Superman appearance was about evil aliens and I'd like to see something different.

Morrison's Superman stories are always about normal, human things on a big scale, but he never totally loses that "hero to the people" vibe. Personally I think we need more of that, more champion of the oppressed, less space jesus, and Brainiac lends himself better to that giant scope where it's super easy to forget about the little guy.

I'd rather get Ultra-Humanite or Metallo. Something a little more lowkey that can be more emotional, more grounded, more *real* and keep Clark closer to the people he protects. But if we're not gonna get that, if we're gonna get Superman in all his high-concept glory, then Brainiac is the villain I want to see, he's the best choice for such a tale.

Best part about Brainiac potentially being the villain here, is that he won't be snatched up by Kara's film.

[manwhohaseverything]

You'll need someone with squinty eyes to play superman of the people

[Myskin]

Best part about Brainiac potentially being the villain here, is that he won't be snatched up by Kara's film.

If you check Gunn's previous works in the field, you notice a recurring pattern - almost no work of his focuses on ONE antagonist. In the first Guardians of the Galaxy there are: Ronan, Yondu (not as friendly as in the sequel), The Collector, Nebula (to a degree) and probably someone else I can't remember. And the only proper villain, that is Ronan, isn't even characterized as well as the other characters. So unless Gunn is already planning a sequel or something I can see him getting Superman ready to face Brainiac with John Corben transformed into Metallo in the middle of the film, Parasite at the beginning and a trip to Bizarro Word in the middle. Whether it works or not it's another matter, but isn't radically different from what Morrison himself does in his works, where Mechano-Man is fought at the beginning of the issue and Solaris in the second half.

[Ascended]

I definitely expect a few different antagonists, agreed, but I struggle to see Brainiac used as anything other than the prime antagonist. How do you "secondary antagonist" a villain on Brainiac's level?

I totally expect Sam Lane to be involved, somehow. Waller comes out right before this, right? It'd make sense to see Sam introduced there. It's a natural tease. Lane ties into topics and themes we know Gunn likes to play with, and he leans into the personal drama via his ties to Lois. If Gunn doesn't use Sam in some fashion, I'll eat my hat.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I definitely expect a few different antagonists, agreed, but I struggle to see Brainiac used as anything other than the prime antagonist. How do you "secondary antagonist" a villain on Brainiac's level?

I totally expect Sam Lane to be involved, somehow. Waller comes out right before this, right? It'd make sense to see Sam introduced there. It's a natural tease. Lane ties into topics and themes we know Gunn likes to play with, and he leans into the personal drama via his ties to Lois. If Gunn doesn't use Sam in some fashion, I'll eat my hat.

Braniac feels like a scientist so he'd have lackeys that go out and get him samples or experiments that he would use.

So he could create the Eradicator or Cyborg Superman or hire Lobo to retrieve samples.

There's also Black Zero from the Silver Age.

[Vordan]

If Gunn wants to do two villains, then the way to go is take the basic structure of Morrison’s Action run where Metallo and Sam Lane are the starter villains hunting Superman, but in the third act, Brainiac shows up and hacks Metallo to serve him. Then it culminates in Brainiac/Metallo vs. Superman. I could see a movie working with Metallo and Sam Lane hunting Superman down because he’s an alien, and Metropolis is scared of him for the same reason, but Clark saving Metropolis from Kandor’s fate is what finally wins everyone over to his side and makes him the popular hero he typically is.

[Myskin]

I definitely expect a few different antagonists, agreed, but I struggle to see Brainiac used as anything other than the prime antagonist. How do you "secondary antagonist" a villain on Brainiac's level?

If there is a primary antagonist, it will definitely be Brainiac. And I don't think that there could be any other option, because the only two remaining masterminds in Superman's rogues gallery, that is Zod and Luthor, are too overused to appear in Legacy, too.
But here's the thing. Unless Gunn radically reinvents some secondary villain like Metallo or Parasite, most of Superman rogues aren't particulary clever or well-defined - they are mostly musclebound guys who fight Superman on a physical level, so they are excellent for short cameos, or a fight, but not as final bosses. On the other hand though, Brainiac has a major flaw in comparison to Zod and Luthor - he's just an offensive force, not a character with relevant shades of gray or someone with whom Supes could really interact outside a fight if not for very short moments. It doesn't mean that he isn't a good villain - he is a great character, but Zod and Luthor can have a normal conversation with Superman, whereas Brainiac can't. So what I am thinking of is that Gunn will create a series of different challenges/fights along the way, with Brainiac being a possible major menace appearing throughout the movie but mostly for a final fight at the end.
One idea that came to my mind is that Gunn could create Legacy as a merge of the Elite story and a Brainiac adventure, with Manchester Black and friends acting as secondary antagonists throughout the movie - which may include some fights against classical enemies such as Metallo, etc - and the Elite succumbing to Brainiac at the end, whereas Superman won't. That's what I would come to expect from a Gunn Superman stories - a long series of colourful characters and challenges with a final menace, not a Superman vs villain movie, which would be more in line with Raimi's Spider-man 2 (just an example).

[Ascended]

But here's the thing. Unless Gunn radically reinvents some secondary villain like Metallo or Parasite, most of Superman rogues aren't particulary clever or well-defined

Oh I dunno, I think there's enough material in a lot of Clark's rogues that Gunn could cobble together a viable villain. Like Metallo, you've got the "serviceman" angle, where he's a man of duty trying to help protect the world from a new power that's accountable to no one. You've got the "Lois love interest" angle, as we saw through the New52. You've got the pathos of a man who can't feel anything, made a pawn in a bigger battle, his descent into madness and villainy. He ties easily into other potential/future threats like Lex, Sam Lane, Henshaw, Brainiac, etc.

Same goes for a lot of the others. No particular version of, say, Parasite is worthy of carrying a movie, but if you cherry pick the bits and pieces that work from each version, you can Frankenstein them into a whole character. Or Titano, it's easy enough to do a "Superman v Kaiju" movie, and there's just enough material in Titano to squeeze an emotional response out of it.

Hell, Gunn might actually prefer a less-defined antagonist; it'd give him more wiggle room to work them around the story. He's certainly gravitated to lesser known characters in the past.

You're right that as far as fully formed, big deal bad guys go, it's basically Brainiac. He's the smart money to bet on, and I'm not gonna be upset if he's the big bad. And we should expect a few antagonists in the film, as Gunn seems to lean towards that kind of narrative. But another alien invader *is* pretty repetitive at this point, even if he's largely just a puppet master in this film.

[Zagre]

If Gunn wants to do two villains, then the way to go is take the basic structure of Morrison’s Action run where Metallo and Sam Lane are the starter villains hunting Superman, but in the third act, Brainiac shows up and hacks Metallo to serve him. Then it culminates in Brainiac/Metallo vs. Superman. I could see a movie working with Metallo and Sam Lane hunting Superman down because he’s an alien, and Metropolis is scared of him for the same reason, but Clark saving Metropolis from Kandor’s fate is what finally wins everyone over to his side and makes him the popular hero he typically is.

Just... Inject this into my veins already!

[Vordan]

Oh I dunno, I think there's enough material in a lot of Clark's rogues that Gunn could cobble together a viable villain. Like Metallo, you've got the "serviceman" angle, where he's a man of duty trying to help protect the world from a new power that's accountable to no one. You've got the "Lois love interest" angle, as we saw through the New52. You've got the pathos of a man who can't feel anything, made a pawn in a bigger battle, his descent into madness and villainy. He ties easily into other potential/future threats like Lex, Sam Lane, Henshaw, Brainiac, etc.

Same goes for a lot of the others. No particular version of, say, Parasite is worthy of carrying a movie, but if you cherry pick the bits and pieces that work from each version, you can Frankenstein them into a whole character. Or Titano, it's easy enough to do a "Superman v Kaiju" movie, and there's just enough material in Titano to squeeze an emotional response out of it.

Hell, Gunn might actually prefer a less-defined antagonist; it'd give him more wiggle room to work them around the story. He's certainly gravitated to lesser known characters in the past.

You're right that as far as fully formed, big deal bad guys go, it's basically Brainiac. He's the smart money to bet on, and I'm not gonna be upset if he's the big bad. And we should expect a few antagonists in the film, as Gunn seems to lean towards that kind of narrative. But another alien invader *is* pretty repetitive at this point, even if he's largely just a puppet master in this film.

I think the best way to differentiate Brainiac from Zod is make it so it’s not an alien invasion story, it’s an alien abduction story. I don’t think Morrison Brainiac was going to destroy Earth after he took Metropolis, and Venditti’s Brainiac explicitly did not do that. Once Superman surrendered himself, Venditti Brainiac was willing to leave Earth in peace. Make Legacy Brainiac’s goal to solely be bottling Metropolis and then bailing, with his argument to Superman being that humanity is going to destroy itself just like Krypton did, and this way at least some remnant of humanity will survive. He doesn’t feel the need to destroy the Earth because humans are doing a fine job of that already, and he could even point to Metallo as an example of why Superman shouldn’t be wasting his time trying to save mankind. To quote Morrison:




Humanity didn’t put billions of dollars into solving climate change, or poverty, or world hunger, or water scarcity, or homelessness, but it did put that money towards building a gun that could kill Superman. Brainiac could point to that as evidence for why Superman should just let him take Metropolis and go, or even join him in helping to “save” other doomed species. Superman of course would reject the offer, but I think this is a strong enough motivation to make Brainiac feel compelling if he’s only going to be the Act 3 Big Bad, while allowing Gunn to use other villains that would still keep the narrative thread going of “should Superman put that much value in his human upbringing given how bad humans can be?”

[Zagre]

That'd be exactly my approach as well. Brainiac is a collector, but in this story he'd work as a preserver as well. He's foreseen the Earth will die within a generation, so he's here to take a piece of it to keep for himself before the inevitable occurs. This way, you could also reduce the stakes to something more believable for the audience (nobody is going to buy they'll destroy the Earth in their first movie people, but a city, perhaps, could beliebably be lost or damaged, kinda like Gotham was severaly damaged in Reeves first installment) while still keeping the scale grandiose enough for a Superman story with plenty of spectacle.

[Sacred Knight]

How many of you are hoping Brainiac is the bad guy?

My hope is that Brainiac is held off for what I believe will be the Superman/Supergirl meeting in Legacy II, and they take him on together. I know that's yet another in a continuing line of long waits, but I think it'd be worth it, so long as this all succeeds and we get that far. If it doesn't, oy.

[Myskin]

Oh I dunno, I think there's enough material in a lot of Clark's rogues that Gunn could cobble together a viable villain. Like Metallo, you've got the "serviceman" angle, where he's a man of duty trying to help protect the world from a new power that's accountable to no one. You've got the "Lois love interest" angle, as we saw through the New52. You've got the pathos of a man who can't feel anything, made a pawn in a bigger battle, his descent into madness and villainy. .

Again, this is possible only there is a radical reinvention of the character - something which so far we haven't seen in comic books, either. Metallo has never been a mastermind and he never will be IMHO - which doesn't mean that it isn't possible to write excellent stories about him. But even in that case, it wouldn't be something which I see as Gunn's thing. It is more of a Sam Raimi's thing in his Spider-man trilogy, and even he succeeded when the character already was a mastermind in his own account (Green Goblin/Octopus OK, Sandman not so much). And EVEN in that case Octopus worked mostly for the action scenes, and they had to create a second conflict - a psychological one - between Spider-man and Norman, or Spider-man and Harry Osborn.
I am not saying that Parasite or Metallo or whatever won't be in the movie, but I am under the impression that people are looking in the wrong direction, taking into account most of the past superhero solo movies (including Superman ones), and instead maybe we should be looking at Gunn's past works. And what Gunn is very good at doing is making action packed movies with plenty of colorful characters and locations, and some of the characters don't have much screen time but they are very well-characterized with just the good performer and the right lines. Of course, this is just speculation on my part and we don't even know whether he will direct it, and actually I may be jinxing the entire operation with my words (yes, it wouldn't be the first time ). But again, if I had to take a guess I would look at Superman vs Elite, or the Brainiac Y2K story, or Joe Kelly's Endgame, with Supes fighting most of his b-list rogues with Manchester Black at the end. That is a VERY specific and inventive setting with many eccentric characters, rather than a Superman vs villain story set in Metropolis.

[DABellWrites]

I think Gunn will probably go down the lesser known characters route, he can't change Brainiac into what he'd want since the character is one of Superman's more well-known villains and has appeared in a lot of Superman media over the years. Maybe he'll dip into one of those forgotten one-off pre-crisis characters?