Wonder Woman reboot film possibilities

[Perseus]

Going back to the Greek myth conversation, I think people are forgetting that what's played out in the comics isn't played out with the general audience. We haven't had any WW adaptations about something like Diana getting roped into drama with the gods on Olympus or even fighting mythological monsters. In fact, there haven't really been any big modern superhero movies that have played myth and high fantasy seriously - Thor's "mythology" is just goofy antics built around MCU cosmic hoo-ha and Shazam 2 is using Greek myth but it's a comedy.

The question isn't whether or not they're gonna lean into the epic fantasy/Greek myth angle, because they are. The question is just whether or not they're gonna do it well. I know not everyone here has faith in James Gunn, but I do trust that he's gonna aim for something that doesn't feel generic. And a movie about a demigoddess/activist dealing with modern politics and getting roped into some dickish gods' political struggle? That sounds really interesting and fresh, even if it's been done in the comics before.

The sword and shield are almost certainly here to stay in some capacity, and the Zeus origin is probably stuck at this point (ughhhh...), but I'm not sure why people think Greek myth necessarily equals Kratos or Xena.



Those things can be done well, though. Look at Rucka's Post-Crisis run - Medusa as a villain, Diana being used as a pawn in the Greek gods' Game of Thrones, big fight with a Greek mythological monster in the Hecatoncheires. But none of it feels cookie-cutter because the approach is unique. The fantasy stuff is balanced with the earthly political drama and he really digs into the interplay between ancient myth and the modern world, both thematically and aesthetically (e.g. the gods rebranding, the changing of the guard on Olympus, the gladiator match in Yankee Stadium, public protests over Diana's paganism/ideology, Ferdinand). Yes, the fantasy elements are all based in Greek myth, but it's quintessential Wonder Woman.

Similarly Perez's run and Historia both play 100% in the Greek mythology sandbox but they use them in really creative ways. In fact, a big reason why those stories are so good is because they're feminist, subversive takes on the myths at the center of our patriarchal culture. Making them about characters created for the IP would take away a lot of their political punch.

Sucks about the Zeus origin but I've come to like the sword and shield tbh. But otherwise yes to all of this.

[Perseus]

Not really a one-to-one analogy, because I know a lot of Superman fans are sick to death of Lex Luthor and Zod being the default villains whenever Superman has a movie. And, not unlike Wonder Woman, Superman is also criticized by general audiences for having a weak rogues gallery.
And Batman...yeah, we've had a half-dozen Jokers. But we've also seen Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Bane, Ra's Al Ghul, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, and Poison Ivy. There's a reason why Batman's rogues are among the most recognized villains, and it's not because they always default back to Bruce contending with generic gangsters and mob bosses.

And this is why Wonder Woman's rogues gallery is gathering dust and generally dismissed as unworthy of audiences' time. And it turns into a cycle. Diana's villains are never used because audiences don't care about them. They don't care about them because her villains are never used. They're never used because they don't bring in audiences. They don't bring in audiences because they don't know anything about them....
Is the snake choking on its own tail yet?

I'm curious, for all the people pleading for Diana to get an animated series, will her rogues gallery get to appear there? Or will it just be more diet Percy Jackson crap?

I mean ideally you adapt her more critically acclaimed and popular stories which would involve her rouges, so yes? Also, her takes on the myth are nothing like PJ who is also a fine kid's character and is already getting a TV series so, I mean a savvy marketing team might appeal to that audience, but again this is where a good writer/creative director comes in and uses Diana's stories and characters and does something different.

Like maybe 10 episodes a season, each like 45 mins.... yeah, plenty of time to use most if not all her villains. We do want to avoid the one episode is its own story type deal, it should be a continuous series.

[Alpha]

Fans are sick of Lex and Zod because they've been used multiple times. The same cant be said about Wonder Woman though as she's only had 2 movies and 1 live action series that didnt use any of them.

Yup, unlile Ares, Zeus, Hades, Medusa, etc

In fact, the way you can tell someone genuinely enjoys the unique ideas of Wonder Woman's history, is by how much they wanna see her recreate Greek myths.

If only every Superman story was about him recreating John Carter or Flash Gordon.

Greek Myth was only one aspect of what she was at her worldbuilsing peak in the 40s. And those stories weren't about recreating Greek mythology.

Nowadays, every pitch for a big Wonder Woman is about stealing names and ideas from 2000 year old stories, which doesn't help establish who she is, it makes her story into a spotlight of others stories, that already have tons of spotlight.

[hareluyafan1]

If we have 50 years of Batman battling an evil Joker, Scarecrow, etc... same with Superman...we can get a couple of films of Wonder Woman battling an evil Medusa, Greek Gods, etc...

Yeah we can but why would you want that? There have been zillions of comics/movies/TV series and so on using Medusa, the Olympians etc. GOW, Percy Jackson, Once Upon a Time... Space, Ulysses 31 etc. Using WW's actual rogues gallery would be original and far more interesting.

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but personally I'd much rather see WW vs. Clea or Silver Swan etc. than mythological figures I've seen tons of times before.

I never said otherwise.

Cool. Thanks for clarifying.

The Perez and Rucka stuff was only ever in comic form, no direct to DVD animated movie, no video game, no film adaptation. Mass audiences are usually unaware of these story beats and all the more reason to have them in other media. You can't claim 'it's been done already' with Diana because it's been done once and never touched unlike say... Superman fighting lex or Batman's origin. It's not stale and it's not over done at all, she fought them once and its barely acknowledged.

It hasn't 'been done already' with Diana, no, but it's been done with a gajillion other characters/series. So in fact it is stale and over done.

No, I'm sure of that. There are the people out there who want Testosteronia the barbarian warrior woman, who is powerful and angry, but not too powerful cause god forbid she matches Superman or someone. But they aren't the majority.

Cool.

If only every Superman story was about him recreating John Carter or Flash Gordon.

Greek Myth was only one aspect of what she was at her worldbuilsing peak in the 40s. And those stories weren't about recreating Greek mythology.

Nowadays, every pitch for a big Wonder Woman is about stealing names and ideas from 2000 year old stories, which doesn't help establish who she is, it makes her story into a spotlight of others stories, that already have tons of spotlight.

This.

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah we can but why would you want that? There have been zillions of comics/movies/TV series and so on using Medusa, the Olympians etc. GOW, Percy Jackson, Once Upon a Time... Space, Ulysses 31 etc. Using WW's actual rogues gallery would be original and far more interesting.

....those ARE WWs actual rogues gallery. They just arent ALL of her rogues gallery.

[hareluyafan1]

....those ARE WWs actual rogues gallery. They just arent ALL of her rogues gallery.

Then allow me to rephrase that.

Using WW's original rogues gallery (i.e. the characters created by DC comics as opposed to mythical figures which are public domain), would be far more interesting.

Clear?

[Primal Slayer]

Then allow me to rephrase that.

Using WW's original rogues gallery (i.e. the characters created by DC comics as opposed to mythical figures which are public domain), would be far more interesting.

Clear?

It still doesnt make sense to deprive her of half of and her most iconic people. Public domain or not. We might as well complain about most of Historia. Why do we have to have a story that includes the Gods and Hercules when they are public domain.

[Gaius]

I like the Greek myth stuff about Wonder Woman, that's not my problem. It's more the Warrior Woman nonsense I've seen from stuff like the Snyder Cult I've got no interest in.

Plus not every original character from the comics is a banger. Max Lord is an "original" character and people can pretend he's can iconic WW villain all they want, I'll take Diana fighting any vaguely myth related character from the PD over him 24/7.

[hareluyafan1]

It still doesnt make sense to deprive her of half of and her most iconic people.

I didn't say anything about "depriving" anybody of anything. I just said it would be more interesting to focus on WW's original villains (and again, by original I mean ones created by DC).

Why do we have to have a story that includes the Gods and Hercules when they are public domain.

That's the point, we don't. There's already a bazillion of those out there. Let's have something more original, like say, Silver Swan or Osira as the main villain of a new WW movie.

Plus not every original character from the comics is a banger. Max Lord is an "original" character and people can pretend he's can iconic WW villain all they want, I'll take Diana fighting any vaguely myth related character from the PD over him 24/7.

You do know that most fans hated Max Lord being in WW84 precisely because he isn't a WW villain, don't you?

[PopQuezy]

I know some people aren't going to appreciate this comment, but I actually think Bloodlines handled Wonder Woman's original villains and myth perfectly. The original villains very much drove the story, but Ferdinand, the maze, and Medusa fit perfectly into the story. I would argue Wonder Woman 2017 also balanced myth with original rogues well. I think Bloodlines did it better.

I haven't read Historia yet, but I'm forgiving of it being myth-inspired because I see it as an Amazons story and not a Wonder Woman story. With Wonder Woman, I would hope for more of a balance, or in the case of Bloodlines, myth to plus a story but not to take it over.

Personally, I'm not interested in seeing a story with the politics of the Olympians and Diana. I usually find those stories make Wonder Woman feel too isolated from Man's World. There's also no natural place for her supporting human cast in such stories. I prefer a mix of heroics and myth.

[Perseus]

Nowadays, every pitch for a big Wonder Woman is about stealing names and ideas from 2000 year old stories, which doesn't help establish who she is, it makes her story into a spotlight of others stories, that already have tons of spotlight.

Yeah we can but why would you want that? There have been zillions of comics/movies/TV series and so on using Medusa, the Olympians etc. GOW, Percy Jackson, Once Upon a Time... Space, Ulysses 31 etc. Using WW's actual rogues gallery would be original and far more interesting.


It hasn't 'been done already' with Diana, no, but it's been done with a gajillion other characters/series. So in fact it is stale and over done.

Huh, I wonder why they've lasted 2000 years.

I have to once again point out that no one here wants to remove her classic villains. Which happens to include Ares, Zeus, Heracles and all the like, but I know that some people ignore that.

And everyone always says it would be more interesting, but I got to disagree. It's a mixed bag most of the time and everyone knows that I'd argue.

[Agent Z]

Yup, unlile Ares, Zeus, Hades, Medusa, etc

In fact, the way you can tell someone genuinely enjoys the unique ideas of Wonder Woman's history, is by how much they wanna see her recreate Greek myths.

If only every Superman story was about him recreating John Carter or Flash Gordon.

Greek Myth was only one aspect of what she was at her worldbuilsing peak in the 40s. And those stories weren't about recreating Greek mythology.

Nowadays, every pitch for a big Wonder Woman is about stealing names and ideas from 2000 year old stories, which doesn't help establish who she is, it makes her story into a spotlight of others stories, that already have tons of spotlight.

If Flash Gordon and John Carter were regular characters in the Superman comics from inception, this analogy would be accurate. Nobody holds it against Thor, God of War, Fate/Stay night and others for using characters from 2000 years ago, so I don't know why Wonder Woman doing it is a problem when this is exactly what her creator did.

[Agent Z]

Fans are sick of Lex and Zod because they've been used multiple times. The same cant be said about Wonder Woman though as she's only had 2 movies and 1 live action series that didnt use any of them.

An animated series is nothing like a movie. You are going to get 12-25 episodes which covers PLENTY of ground and makes room for all.

I don't see Zod as being as overexposed as Luthor quite frankly. Before Man of Steel, Zod's last film appearance was Superman 2 in 1980. Even his appearances on tv are not as much as Lex.

[RichAlex1981]

She's never been DC's first superhero though, and giving her that status has never been beneficial to her or to Superman. It will undermine the impact of his arrival because she gets all the fanfare, or more likely them come up with some unconvincing reason why she DIDN'T have much impact and acted low-key so as to give Superman his big entrance.

They need to be peers and debut around the same time if we are still doing the shared universe route. It's the only way to pay proper respect to both of them at the same time. If they go with the unnecessary model of having her with the JSA, someone between her or Clark is going to get screwed over. It will most likely be her, but ideally it shouldn't be either.

We have the movies showing she’s the first and then we had Earth 2 showing she was first along with whatever they were about to do after Rebirth.

Canonically no she isn’t first but someone needs to be and it makes much more sense that it be her than anyone else.

[RichAlex1981]

The clay origin has been Diana's origin for 70+ years, I don't think it should be replaced because of one polarizing reboot. Diana's a mythological woman, Donna is a human empowered by the culture that adopted her. I would rather they maintain that consistency instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Um…you do know none of what you just said has been official cannon for about 10 years now. Sure Diana made it all happen in the comics, but her origin story is still she’s Zeus’ daughter. I doubt very seriously they will change this back.

As for Donna she pretty much has the clay story origin now anyway. atleast with what I suggested, she biologically family with Diana and Hippolyte.