Ultraverse

[Thundershot]

If they were going to do it (and at this point I don’t think they ever will, sigh..) they should sprinkle them into other titles and see how they fare. Have Mantra or someone show up in Spider-Man where she/he is after someone and Peter has to stop her/him from killing someone, with Oeter not knowing Mantra is an immortal man reincarnated as a woman… see how people react. The problem with Marvel is that they’d try to turn it into an event with six one shots and a dozen tie ins with bookend issues. Just plant the seeds and let the characters grow and see if people like it. Treat them as brand new characters… If someone is popular enough to get their own book or limited series, play it by ear.


Again, it’ll never happen…

[joebleau]

If they were going to do it (and at this point I don’t think they ever will, sigh..) they should sprinkle them into other titles and see how they fare. Have Mantra or someone show up in Spider-Man where she/he is after someone and Peter has to stop her/him from killing someone, with Oeter not knowing Mantra is an immortal man reincarnated as a woman… see how people react. The problem with Marvel is that they’d try to turn it into an event with six one shots and a dozen tie ins with bookend issues. Just plant the seeds and let the characters grow and see if people like it. Treat them as brand new characters… If someone is popular enough to get their own book or limited series, play it by ear.


Again, it’ll never happen…

Al Ewing tried to do that with characters from the New Universe in the Ultimates serie. No one took the ball after that.

[Gaastra]

They did bring a version of nightman into the main universe but the first thing the writers did was kill him off!

[Thor-Ul]

If they were going to do it (and at this point I don’t think they ever will, sigh..) they should sprinkle them into other titles and see how they fare. Have Mantra or someone show up in Spider-Man where she/he is after someone and Peter has to stop her/him from killing someone, with Oeter not knowing Mantra is an immortal man reincarnated as a woman… see how people react. The problem with Marvel is that they’d try to turn it into an event with six one shots and a dozen tie ins with bookend issues. Just plant the seeds and let the characters grow and see if people like it. Treat them as brand new characters… If someone is popular enough to get their own book or limited series, play it by ear.


Again, it’ll never happen…

It would be a good idea. But I also agree with your sadness. The reasons for not using the characters still are a mystery, but I think it involves more the people related to the propierties than the propierties themselves. I would blame Disney, but this attittude came from times before Disney bought Marvel.

Al Ewing tried to do that with characters from the New Universe in the Ultimates serie. No one took the ball after that.

That was a pity. Any character can work with the right team, but I think than the characters needs the support of the editor to reach some level of reexistence. But at least, from the New Universe I would say than Starbrand has been the most used propierty. And that at least has been something.

They did bring a version of nightman into the main universe but the first thing the writers did was kill him off!

Can you tell me which issue was that? Which series?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Maybe when Disney fully takes over Marvel, and absorbs them, we might see the Ultra verse return.

Prime, at the very least, could fill a nice niche, and the others could be updated as well.

[Gaastra]

Can you tell me which issue was that? Which series?

Black September crossover. He got a limited series with gambit also teaming with the ultraverse nightman in the story and did a wolverine crossover also than killed off later.

The x-men also show up. Funny he had ties to the x-men even buddies with wolverine.

: As a result of the Ultraverse’s “Black September” event, there are now two Night Men. One lives in his original universe, and the other has been sent to the Marvel Universe.

http://notblogx.blogspot.com/2011/02...-may-1996.html

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So, he was in a big crossover event. Did two canon x-men crossovers and died. But there was a canon nightman in the mu!

[Thor-Ul]

Maybe when Disney fully takes over Marvel, and absorbs them, we might see the Ultra verse return.

Prime, at the very least, could fill a nice niche, and the others could be updated as well.

I don't know... Corporative politics is what sank the Ultraverse. I don't believe than more corporativism will help them to resurface. Most probably they will be moved to a deeper vault until they become public domain. In 2084 maybe.

Black September crossover. He got a limited series with gambit also teaming with the ultraverse nightman in the story and did a wolverine crossover also than killed off later.

The x-men also show up. Funny he had ties to the x-men even buddies with wolverine.

http://notblogx.blogspot.com/2011/02...-may-1996.html

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So, he was in a big crossover event. Did two canon x-men crossovers and died. But there was a canon nightman in the mu!

Ah, those. I never read those two particulary. And honest some crossovers of this kind always are a grey, uncertain zone, when it is about canonicity. The kind of things than happened but never are talked about. Ever.

[Thundershot]

I don't know... Corporative politics is what sank the Ultraverse. I don't believe than more corporativism will help them to resurface. Most probably they will be moved to a deeper vault until they become public domain. In 2084 maybe.



Ah, those. I never read those two particulary. And honest some crossovers of this kind always are a grey, uncertain zone, when it is about canonicity. The kind of things than happened but never are talked about. Ever.

Yeah, like Juggernaut being in the Ultraverse.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't know... Corporative politics is what sank the Ultraverse. I don't believe than more corporativism will help them to resurface. Most probably they will be moved to a deeper vault until they become public domain. In 2084 maybe.

Honestly, print comics haven't been run like an actual business, with a meaningful emphasize on developing characters and properties, in a long, long time now.

In contrast, Disney is run like a business. And I imagine when Disney does an audit and finds a boatload of characters/intellectual property that is laying fallow, they'll have questions.

Not saying it'll happen anytime soon, but they are the best hope for seeing the Ultra-verse again.

[shooshoomanjoe]

They did bring a version of nightman into the main universe but the first thing the writers did was kill him off!

They also brought Siren into the Marvel Universe but that universe was retconned as not being the 616.

[Muadib]

As i understand it, there are two reasons that we wont see the Ultraverse characters pop up anywhere, barring some mad person convincing Marvel/Disney to sell them.

One is the profit sharing issue. The Ultraverse founders were savvy to the value of royalties for adaption and merch and wrote generous (Some would say "fair") terms for creators royalties. Since Big Two comics runs on exploiting the talent, allowing those terms to be fulfilled would set a bad precedent.

The other reason is the existence of G**A** J*N*S, bad cess to his name. As long as he is alive and able to hand Marvel and Disney a scandal thru his existence, nothing he worked on is being reprinted or used. Same goes for his work on Marvel.

This is my take on the bits and pieces released over the years and is not in any way a final or official statement on the matter.

[Gaastra]

Trouble is some of the ultraverse marvel crossover stuff was not just in limited series or one shots. Black knight talks about his time in the ultraverse in a marvel comic issue and galactus has to pull the gems out of the ultraverse in one of the main comic issues.

Kind of like marvel said transformers and gijoe were not canon AFTER they had a crossover with spider-man and shang-chi, jj showed up in gijoe and that plot wrapped up in amazing spider-man with a hawk cameo to boot and secret wars 2 not only had circuit breaker but talks about shockwave!

Once it shows up in the main books it should be canon.

The later handbooks still list black knight as a member of ultraforce by the way.

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[Thor-Ul]

Honestly, print comics haven't been run like an actual business, with a meaningful emphasize on developing characters and properties, in a long, long time now.

In contrast, Disney is run like a business. And I imagine when Disney does an audit and finds a boatload of characters/intellectual property that is laying fallow, they'll have questions.

Not saying it'll happen anytime soon, but they are the best hope for seeing the Ultra-verse again.

Marvel is also a bussiness, with their wins and loses, and Disney is not different, maybe bigger. Remember it was Marvel who create the MCU and because of that they were bought by Disney. And Disney had its own faults, considering how they had deal with their streamming channel. I dunno if they are going to be worried about a group of characters mostly forgotten at the moment.

As i understand it, there are two reasons that we wont see the Ultraverse characters pop up anywhere, barring some mad person convincing Marvel/Disney to sell them.

One is the profit sharing issue. The Ultraverse founders were savvy to the value of royalties for adaption and merch and wrote generous (Some would say "fair") terms for creators royalties. Since Big Two comics runs on exploiting the talent, allowing those terms to be fulfilled would set a bad precedent..

One of the videos posted before explain thprofit share item: yes, the royalties were generous, but that was according to 90s standards. To modern standards, it would be like every other editorial deal. What was generous then, is the norm today. So the excuse of the "excessive money" lacks support.

The other reason is the existence of G**A** J*N*S, bad cess to his name. As long as he is alive and able to hand Marvel and Disney a scandal thru his existence, nothing he worked on is being reprinted or used. Same goes for his work on Marvel.

This is my take on the bits and pieces released over the years and is not in any way a final or official statement on the matter.

That could be a better justification, but still a weak one. It is true however than use the name of Gerard Jones (the guy is not Voldemor, people) could be a problem for PR to the IP, but Marvel has show in the past than they don't care a lot about the creators and they can easly disassociate from them. All you need is a good publicity strategy.

There was also the theory of then Marvel didn't wanted to deal with an executive of Malibu who would had a voice if any an adapotacion or publication of Ultraverse characters would be ever done. The selling contrat leave that executive attached to any potential movie. But after all these years, would that guy even be active? And all the people who worked in Marvel, are still there to keep the Ultraverse under wraps to keep this guy at bay.

These days however, I still think the main reason for not use the characters is simply there is nobody on board who cares about them. I think they will appear only when Marvel discover the y are going to lose the rights to publish.

Trouble is some of the ultraverse marvel crossover stuff was not just in limited series or one shots. Black knight talks about his time in the ultraverse in a marvel comic issue and galactus has to pull the gems out of the ultraverse in one of the main comic issues.

Kind of like marvel said transformers and gijoe were not canon AFTER they had a crossover with spider-man and shang-chi, jj showed up in gijoe and that plot wrapped up in amazing spider-man with a hawk cameo to boot and secret wars 2 not only had circuit breaker but talks about shockwave!

Once it shows up in the main books it should be canon.

A lot of those references are tongue-in-cheek. They are not going to show anything they had not the rights to. But they can play with the borders of the contracts. Like when Superman and Wonder Woman appeared on an issue of Lockjaw miniseries, or more famous, the many appearances of Clark Kent and Lois Lane in comics from Thor to the Ultimates.

The later handbooks still list black knight as a member of ultraforce by the way.

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From what year is this handbook, please? Coul dbe the most recent mention of the Ultraverse in a long time.

[Gaastra]

2005 update.

A lot of those references are tongue-in-cheek. They are not going to show anything they had not the rights to. But they can play with the borders of the contracts. Like when Superman and Wonder Woman appeared on an issue of Lockjaw miniseries, or more famous, the many appearances of Clark Kent and Lois Lane in comics from Thor to the Ultimates.

This isn't godzilla in new avengers or dr who in the background of that 2000s iron man type thing. They strait up referenced ultraverse events in the main comic. Black knight talks about him and sersi in the ultraverse. Plus, the ultraverse creators said marvel/ disney owns all of it and can use it anytime but just doesn't give a crap. So this isn't an ip not owned by marvel thing like fu manchu in shang chi or alf in evolutionary war or rom in secret wars 2.

[Nomads1]

Yeah, and thinking again... this isn't actually the first ime that DC had done that either, Fawcett, Quality, probably more.

That was the reason for my initial divagation. I imagine someone like Prime may be kind of redundant, when you have Captain Marvel (SHAZAM) around, but many others could have fit in quite nicely. Maybe the Ultraverse could have reintroduced the DC multiverse.

Al Ewing tried to do that with characters from the New Universe in the Ultimates serie. No one took the ball after that.

And the New Universe belongs completely to Marvel, imagine the respect they'd have for someone else's toys.

Someone mentioned Mantra, and I could not help but imagine the potential for such character in these identity politics obsssessed days. Picture the stories you could write of the conflicts that a white male could have if reincarnated in the body of, say, a black woman. Of course, it could as easily go wrong if you favor the politics instead of the actual storytelling.

Peace