Are the Schumacher movies in the same universe as the Burton movies?

[KyleWayne]

I get it, but I just look at it in the same way I look at recasting Bruce. Even just considering Schumacher's movie we have two actors playing Bruce.

It’s a bit different in that they whitewashed Two-Face, which is incredibly problematic.

[MarkRodriguez09]

It’s a bit different in that they whitewashed Two-Face, which is incredibly problematic.

I mean he was white in the comics so....

I know he was played by Billy Dee in the first movie for... some reason or another, but you'd have a stronger argument if he was black in the comics.

[KyleWayne]

I mean he was white in the comics so....

I know he was played by Billy Dee in the first movie for... some reason or another, but you'd have a stronger argument if he was black in the comics.

It’s not about the comics.

[Alan2099]

It’s a bit different in that they whitewashed Two-Face, which is incredibly problematic.

It really isn't.

It's only a problem for people that are looking for something to be offended by.

[Ruthborn]

Couldn't the four movies (accepting the 89 comic as a divergent universe) still be in the same universe even with Keaton appearing in Flash? What requires them to be separated? Is it just Keaton returning? I don't see that as being an issue considering how many actors played Batman during the franchise, we were always supposed to see him as the same person regardless of the actor.
Couldn't the engagement announcement of Bruce and Selina from the Arrowverse still be seen as them reconciling after the fourth movie?

This is the official timeline for Keaton bat now, or at least the Keaton bat that's appearing in the Flash (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman '89, Flash). I mean, it doesn't mean the original timeline isn't canon also (Batman, Batman Returns, Forever, B&R). Its just a different multiverse Earth. And as of right now we are not sure which universe the Arrowverse cameo is from so it could be either or it could be a third multiverse Earth. A bit like the Batman manga Child of Dreams is also another Keatonbat Earth. Keatonbat is very popular.

[Alan2099]

It feels kind of like how they handled the Halloween movies to me.

It's the same continuity unless you want to tell a story that skips part of it.

[bat39]

Well, despite the huge shift of art style. actors, and showrunners after Batman Returns, yes. Even Bat-nipples, Schwarzen-Freeze, Riddler-Carey, and Tommy Lee Two-Face.

I see it as being akin to the shift Batman went through in the comics.

The Burton films represent the early Golden Age era - Batman as noir-ish character with crime-fighting in Gotham as a deadly serious business. The Schumacher films represent the later Golden Age and Silver Age - plenty of camp and laughably ridiculous supervillains and their schemes.

If you take the Burton and Schumacher movies as a whole, Batman actually has a nice character arc.

He starts out as a weird loner that fights crime because it's the only thing that makes sense for him and he doesn't care who he hurts and by the end he's surrounded himself with a new family and realized that killing people doesn't make you feel better.

It's certainly better than Nolan's "I don't know how to be Batman. I don't want to be Batman anymore. I quit being Batman AND Bruce Wayne so I can disappear and start a new life with a criminal I barely know."

Totally agree with you on the character arc. Bruce's line to Dick about how killing his parent's killer won't make a difference really binds the two incarnations together.

Don't fully agree on your analysis of Nolan's ending though - well, the part about him quitting as Batman anyway (his running away with Selina was a bit...forced, admittedly, but kinda made sense in context).

[Wolverine12]

Please stay on topic and PLEASE don’t casually call people racist for arbitrary reasons that don’t even track.

[Refrax5]

I see it as being akin to the shift Batman went through in the comics.

The Burton films represent the early Golden Age era - Batman as noir-ish character with crime-fighting in Gotham as a deadly serious business. The Schumacher films represent the later Golden Age and Silver Age - plenty of camp and laughably ridiculous supervillains and their schemes.



Totally agree with you on the character arc. Bruce's line to Dick about how killing his parent's killer won't make a difference really binds the two incarnations together.

Don't fully agree on your analysis of Nolan's ending though - well, the part about him quitting as Batman anyway (his running away with Selina was a bit...forced, admittedly, but kinda made sense in context).

Apparently, there's a cut scene in Forever where Bruce refers to himself as a "killer," so his version of Batman had definitely killed in the past, whether he's meant to be Keaton's Bruce or not.

[witchboy]

This is the official timeline for Keaton bat now, or at least the Keaton bat that's appearing in the Flash (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman '89, Flash). I mean, it doesn't mean the original timeline isn't canon also (Batman, Batman Returns, Forever, B&R). Its just a different multiverse Earth. And as of right now we are not sure which universe the Arrowverse cameo is from so it could be either or it could be a third multiverse Earth. A bit like the Batman manga Child of Dreams is also another Keatonbat Earth. Keatonbat is very popular.

I'm not familiar with Child of Dreams. I looked it up on the DC Wiki and it says it's the New Earth Batman.
How is it a Keaton Batman story? I realize the Wiki can be a little wonky, and the information on the comic isn't very thorough.

[Ruthborn]

I'm not familiar with Child of Dreams. I looked it up on the DC Wiki and it says it's the New Earth Batman.
How is it a Keaton Batman story? I realize the Wiki can be a little wonky, and the information on the comic isn't very thorough.

Yeah, that DC Database article is a bit spartan to say the least. Here's the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Child_of_Dreams
In a nutshell, the appearance of Bruce and Bats is based on Keaton and the appearances of other characters are also based on their movie appearances. There are also call backs to events from Batman and Batman Returns. However, it is not entirely accurate to the movie events which is way I throw it into an alternate, but similar, universe.

[exile001]

If you're a purist (i.e. taking it as WB intended with no regard for the talent involved) then yes, the 4 movies are supposed to be one continuity.

If you have any sense, you'll just appreciate them as very separate works. Same for Batman '89, which is in no way anything like any of the films. If you want to be a weird nerd about it, you can split several multiverse strands around it.

[exile001]

It’s a bit different in that they whitewashed Two-Face, which is incredibly problematic.

Totally agree, why would Schumacher recast? It made no sense to me back then (despite my being a fan of Tommy Lee Jones). He didn't recast Alfred and Gordon. He had to recast Bruce but chose to recast Harvey.

It doesn't help that there was supposed to be a thread through Batman Returns building to Two-Face, with Harvey taking Schreck's role, but Burton rejected it (and there are many side to that story).

I mean he was white in the comics so....

I know he was played by Billy Dee in the first movie for... some reason or another, but you'd have a stronger argument if he was black in the comics.

Because he's a great actor? The "he's not black in the comics" argument is such crap when these characters were created in the 30-60's when anything other than straight, white, male template representation basically wasn't a thing. There was no reason to recast, Schumacher chose to and that can be seen as problematic.

[witchboy]

Yeah, that DC Database article is a bit spartan to say the least. Here's the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Child_of_Dreams
In a nutshell, the appearance of Bruce and Bats is based on Keaton and the appearances of other characters are also based on their movie appearances. There are also call backs to events from Batman and Batman Returns. However, it is not entirely accurate to the movie events which is way I throw it into an alternate, but similar, universe.

Thanks for the link. That does sound interesting, I'll check it out.