Black Panther and Batman vs Doctor Doom

[MichaelC]

Black Panther and Batman team up against Doom. Month of prep for both sides.

[Sharpandpointies]

Black Panther and Batman walk in with insane amounts of crazy prep, strategies, and all sorts of mad technology only to discover that Doom has created some Techno-magical time altering monstrosity that even THEY didn't consider possible.

Doom's prep is way outside of Bruce and T'Challa's. Need to go to Reed Richards or Classic Strange to get that kind of madness.

[Shellhead]

The prep is strong on both sides, but Batman excels at it. However, modern Dr. Doom starts out way ahead of these heroes in terms of sheer power and also protection. BP and Batman don't really have a defense against the Crimson Bands, for example, so they would need to resort to some fast attacks that disrupt Doom's ability to concentrate on spellcasting.

[Zagreus]

Unless Batman and Black Panther can come up with some Anti-Magic thingamabob, I think Doom takes them out at the bell with some death ritual he prepares a month in advance, by having minions gathering their DNA, which should be easy enough to find, (as part of the sympathetic magic) propitiating all the right demons and gods and then, saying the final word of the spell, right when the fight starts, taking both their souls.

[Jcogginsa]

Black Panther with Prep managed to defeat Mephisto, which is something Doom tried to do for years and didn't manage to do on his own. (He had to get Dr. Strange's help).

[Pendaran]

Black Panther with Prep managed to defeat Mephisto, which is something Doom tried to do for years and didn't manage to do on his own. (He had to get Dr. Strange's help).

Yeah, but travelling into that realm of logic, Doom with prep has repeatedly made Panther have to borderline or in some ways outright suicide his nation to stop him. (Doom was the once only stopped from conquering Wakanda by Panther stating he would kill himself, Doom, and everyone in the entire country rather than let Doom have it, and Doom acknowledging Panther was totally about to do it. The other time Panther had to kinda sorta blow up all vibranium for a while before Marvel realized that was a terrible idea and walked it back). So that's at least a bit of a wash.

[The MunchKING]

Unless Batman and Black Panther can come up with some Anti-Magic thingamabob, I think Doom takes them out at the bell with some death ritual he prepares a month in advance, by having minions gathering their DNA, which should be easy enough to find, (as part of the sympathetic magic) propitiating all the right demons and gods and then, saying the final word of the spell, right when the fight starts, taking both their souls.

Hmmmm... That's an interesting bit. Do they get access to a shared universe for the prep or is it Doom (and all his minions) are prepping in Latveria, Batman's in Gotham and Black Panther is hanging out in Wakanda, each doing their own Prep work, and they all get beamed to the Kahzaan Arena at fight-time?

[Jcogginsa]

Yeah, but travelling into that realm of logic, Doom with prep has repeatedly made Panther have to borderline or in some ways outright suicide his nation to stop him. (Doom was the once only stopped from conquering Wakanda by Panther stating he would kill himself, Doom, and everyone in the entire country rather than let Doom have it, and Doom acknowledging Panther was totally about to do it. The other time Panther had to kinda sorta blow up all vibranium for a while before Marvel realized that was a terrible idea and walked it back). So that's at least a bit of a wash.

Yeah, but how many of the times that Doom beat Panther involved Panther having an equivalent amount of Prep to use against Doom?

[Pendaran]

Yeah, but how many of the times that Doom beat Panther involved Panther having an equivalent amount of Prep to use against Doom?

Again, sticking to this sort of line of thought, Panther with prep in Secret Wars amounted to not much more than the distraction ploy against Battleworld Ruler Doom to give Reed time to get himself into position, and he himself noted this. Which also gets into that Panther with prep was part of Team Rolling Wave of Failures to save the multiverse, whereas Doom with prep at least managed to gather the allies and resources to defeat the Beyonders or whatever and salvage Battleworld from the wreckage.

Also that second time Doom went at Wakanda, Panther had time to rally allies and resources and what have you in response to what Doom did and in the end the best he could still do was "kill all the vibranium" to fend Doom off.

And the first time he did, Doom's prep was frankly almost minimal.

I get what you're trying to say, I'm just noting that by the standard of saying it, you open the door to all these other things.

[Pendaran]

The more simple thing I could note is that Mephisto was portrayed with a level of power in that era (the Doom/Strange mini that is, a few other places) he didn't really evidence before (being previously a guy who could be overwhelmed by the Silver Surfer, for example, or otherwise a guy who Hela could outlast while fighting together against the same enemy) or since especially (being a guy who has run away from a non amped Thanos, for instance). In Black Panther especially you're talking about an arc where Mephisto couldn't do something as simple as basic telepathy and Panther in the end got by ultimately on that Mephisto for whatever reason previously refused to believe the Panther god was real or otherwise had any claim to T'challa's spirit. That's not really "T'challa beat Mephisto with prep", that's "a mystical being who could otherwise natter on with decent authority on the formation of the universe itself had decided a different mystical being wasn't real, because.... reasons."

But if we're really getting into specific details at that, Panther did the forcefield trick to Mephisto while he was manifested outside of his place of power and instead on Earth, where he is not as powerful. Even further, Mephisto's entire portrayal in that arc involved things like "only has the power you give him" (to quote the comics in question almost directly), whereas he's otherwise pretty often mystical godbeing who does mystical godbeing crap.

Which is centrally my issue here. You could certainly note my take on Doomwar for instance is maybe a bit glib, but you're otherwise yourself glossing over and dismissing a lot of specific details in order to hold onto the soundbite of "well Panther beat the guy Doom couldn't."

[Rightoya]

If Batman gets the plot armour he usually had for his best preperations, something silly like this will probably happen:





, but other than that Dr Doom's magical super preperation should be well out of Batman's paygrade, and i think Black Panther is the weakest link among the 3.

[Shellhead]

Without prep, the fight goes like this. Doom casts the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, leaving Black Panther and Batman immobilized. Then Doom draws his sidearm, the one that he typically only uses to dispatch lackeys who have displeased him. He shoots both heroes at point blank range. The end.

So the heroes need to come up with some kind of prep that can stop magic, or at least stop Doom from casting the spell. And it will need to be something works against both Doom's force field and armor. And Doom will have his own prep ready, which could be almost anything given that he invented a time travel device.

[Rightoya]

So the heroes need to come up with some kind of prep that can stop magic, or at least stop Doom from casting the spell. And it will need to be something works against both Doom's force field and armor. And Doom will have his own prep ready, which could be almost anything given that he invented a time travel device.

Batman has something that stops magic frpm Zatanna, and it worked on Circe even though it shouldn't, but that would not work if Batman don't gets plot armour, and even less if his opponent have preperation too.

[Sharpandpointies]

I may be oversimplifying but as I see it, Bruce's Prep is usually stuff that allows him to manage against Class 100 level people. Maybe, sort of, kind of. Usually with some gimmes. To be fair, from what I understand Black Panther is somewhere in the same range, having come out ahead against high-level people when he has a lot of one-sided prep, himself.

Doom's prep allows him to do stuff like 'power-jack Galactus, then use THAT to power-jack Pre-Retcon Beyonder'.

[Postmania]

They'd be able to pull this off if Doom didn't have prep maybe, but not with.