Why is there No Meghan Markle and Prince Harry meltdown the monarchy debate?

[SquirrelMan]

What is a 4th e-Earth, anyway? And what happened to the other three?

[Starrius]

You guys had a black president. Has no black celebrity experienced racism since then?

Barack Obama Jr is the son of a Kenyan man and a European American woman.

He and I are actually distant cousins through a Colonial English American family line Loftin.

Both he and I descended from Leonard Loftin who came to Jamestown from England as an indentured servant. Barack's mother descends from the Maryland Loftin branch, and my mother descends from the Virginian Loftin branch.

I have more Sub Saharan African ancestry than he does, and I don't identify as Black nor African American.
I identified as multiracial/multiethnic for the last three US Censuses.


I don't believe in any hypodescent rule which was made for people that are mixed with non-"white" ancestry. It was the idea that if a person had ancestry from a race that is inferior to white or Caucasian, then he/she should identify as the inferior race even though he could have more white or Caucasian ancestry. The one drop rule stems from the concept of hypodescent which made anybody with one drop of "black blood" made them "black."

The social constructs of the black and white races were created out of White Supremacist ideology as well as the ignorance of human genetics and anthropology. There is wide consensus among Anthropologists and Geneticists that race is a social construct. All of us humans are 99.9% genetically identical. For centuries, that there has been belief that the races were of different species, and that all other races were inferior to the white or Caucasian. There was belief in polygenism. Human beings are far too diverse to be pinned down color names. There are groups of people that don't fit neatly into white and black categories. Africa is a highly extremely diverse continent with over 3,000 ethnic groups, and that includes Nigeria having over 400 ethnic groups. There is more diversity between Africans than there is between Africans and Eurasians.


The average African American is around one quarter European with around 1/3 of African American males having European Y DNA haplogroups/chromosomes which have to do with the patrilineal ancestry (father's father's father, etc). Most of the European ancestry of African Americans came from European American men.


There has always been some mixing between European Americans and African Americans since 17th Century. There had been mixing between African American men and European American women in Virginia and Maryland in 1600s which factored in some African Americans being free before the Civil War. Barack's mother descends from one of those couples.

Laws and penalties were created to bar European American women from mixing with African American men like fines, whippings, and years of bond-labor that included even their children.


After The Bacon's Rebellion which happened in 1676, it became really important to separate European Americans and African Americans who had united against the Virginian elite in The Bacon's Rebellion.

There had been African Americans that became planters and had bond-laborers of their own, and some of them even included European Americans.

Laws were made that made all European Americans superior to all non-European Americans.

[ed2962]

What is a 4th e-Earth, anyway? And what happened to the other three?

It's where the Charlton heroes lived before they moved to the main DCU.

[JackDaw]

Unfair of me…because really can’t be arsed to watch Netflix documentary and certainly never going to read any of the books (so I might well have a distorted view) but as details are drip fed into the media I like Harry less and less.

Take the latest snippet: he killed 25 people in the war in Afghanistan but thinks of them as “chess pieces rather than people”. That strikes me as an asinine thing to talk about (it paints a target on his own back and his family’s) and the attitude near that of a psychopath.

[4theEarth]

thank you Starrius for this insight into your background and the absurdity of the construct of race as understood by today's science. As someone who did fieldwork many decades ago and maintains friendship with my informants to this day I think I can speak to the accuracy of what you say about scientific racism and its history inside anthropology. But let us further clarify that today's use of race is a vestigial formation that that emerged from the science of its day and was codified by pragmatic power rationales to have these them remain true. All science operates out of a certain ignorance otherwise people would not pursue it as an investigative method.

The social constructs of the black and white races were created out of White Supremacist ideology as well as the ignorance of human genetics and anthropology. There is wide consensus among Anthropologists and Geneticists that race is a social construct. All of us humans are 99.9% genetically identical. For centuries, that there has been belief that the races were of different species, and that all other races were inferior to the white or Caucasian. There was belief in polygenism. Human beings are far too diverse to be pinned down color names. There are groups of people that don't fit neatly into white and black categories. Africa is a highly extremely diverse continent with over 3,000 ethnic groups, and that includes Nigeria having over 400 ethnic groups. There is more diversity between Africans than there is between Africans and Eurasians.

Having used the 99.9 point myself in discussion I would only add that explains why color of the skin was a bad basis for taxonomy. Further taxonomy are only labels for helping us understand relationships of populations and they can still be a problem because people believe they are fixed concepts. So, I shudder at your use of the term ethnicity as just another taxonomic term that is prone to abuse and identity. Factually, I don't think it was ever held that races were different species by scientific racists even if they were treated as if they were by the rule making aspects of 17th century authority. It is important to remember that classification is part of the discourse of science if not part of the scientific method. What I am getting here is to say that it isn't very useful to point to ethnic diversity in Nigeria because it says little about how that diversity operates in a culture. I'll use a non-US example because it is charged with notions of historic and ongoing discrimination. Russia to this day but as a carry over from the Soviet era that inherited much of the same western notions about taxonomies of people had Soviet citizens speaking more than 200 languages and dialects and over 100 ethnicities was listed on identity papers.

This fixity allowed for Russian authorities to create policies around these groupings much in the same way it used these papers to control movement. The Soviet Union systematically destroyed and banned any manifestation of specifically Jewish culture while preserving the label as a “nationality” to be written on national ID for example. I doubt there would be many who claim that ethnicity is celebrated in Russia today. Even your example of Nigeria is fraught with 'ethnic' problems like the mass atrocities perpetrated by the Fulani militia.

On the whole identity politics are political games for control and this brings us back around to the racism deployed around Meghan which is about positioning. Here in the US being of a downtrodden identity gives one an authority to make claims of fairness and other intertwined moral positions. That authority becomes laughable though when you have Princess in front of your name.

[4theEarth]

Speaking of positioning how is this doozy about Harry fighting with Meghan and making up:

Going into further detail about their conversation, Harry revealed the Duchess of Sussex asked where his outburst "came from" and whether he “overhear[d] adults speak that way … growing up,” to which the royal replied, “Yes.”
“It came from somewhere deep inside, somewhere that needed to be excavated, and it was obvious that I could use some help with the job,” the red-headed prince remembered. “‘I’ve tried therapy,’ I told her. ‘Willy told me to go. Never found the right person.’ [It] didn’t work.”

PRINCE HARRY CLAIMS PRINCE WILLIAM 'RECOILED' WHEN MEGHAN MARKLE HUGGED HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME

Unsatisfied with his response, Meghan replied, “No. … Try again," as Harry recalled in Spare.

Oh look! my familiy messed me up so that I need mental health help to be a proper husband and all around person. Why won't they get the same those sick royals????
and stop talking about my wife's hormones you misogynist woman you!

so many cards to play.

[4theEarth]

Here is an interesting salvo aimed at the future king's wife and thereby the swap out for Meghan. What makes it interesting as a hit job is how it uses all the things that Harry complains about in the supposed monarch-controlled media using inuendo and leaks that can't be verified to lend credibility to things which are sensationalist. Good shot Sussex PR crew!!

The royal family may be keeping a stiff upper lip in public after Prince Harry’s recent round of interviews for his memoir, Spare, but behind the palace walls, they are reportedly reacting to his claims. Kate Middleton, who was once close to her brother-in-law, apparently is having a hard time digesting all of the private family stories going public.

The Way Meghan Markle's Wedding Scandal Went Down Shows Another Heartbreaking Difference Between How She & Kate Middleton Were Treated
The Princess of Wales now doesn’t know who to trust in the monarchy because Prince Harry was once a confidante of hers. “Kate feels that Harry’s actions are atrocious,” an insider told Us Weekly. “She is appalled at him for dragging her name through the dirt and is finding it hard to forgive.” Kate does get dinged a few times in the memoir from the leaked excerpts so far — from Princess Charlotte’s bridesmaid dress issue to shouting at Meghan Markle after she referred to Kate’s hormones during pregnancy — let’s just say Kate and Meghan were not designed to be besties.

What may upset Kate the most is that her perfectly curated public image is shattered by Harry revealing her behind-the-scenes personality. That might be the real reason she is finding it difficult to process how Harry is spreading his message — the royal family has a lot of issues to iron out. As royal expert Katie Nicholl noted to Page Six, “They’ve been taken aback by the level of detail and just how far Harry has gone in all of this.”

Buy: Spare $22.42

Was her behind-the-scenes personality really revealed or is this just one of those rhetorical traps like "when you stopped beating your wife"?

[kidfresh512]

I'm 5 hours into the audiobook of 'Spare'. I mean if this doesn't ensure people that Harry HATED the papparazzi his entire life. And he was looking for ANY escape from the UK and the infighting. People that blame Megan still after he clearly lays out the years and years of resentment. When he recounts asking to see his mother's crash photos when he grew up. And goes into detail about seeing the paparazzi's who chased her to death in the photos you can just hear the hatred in his voice.

Still blaming Megan after all of that doesn't make sense at all. I'm not even to him discussing that relationship yet but he talks about his hate and being chased and hounded by them all over the world.

He talks about Camila's team and his dads team selling him out with fake stories and fake rehab to make their marriage after his mother's death have more positive press. So far there is so many examples that he knows what he's doing, Megan is not some puppet master making him sour on his family. It was already there, the resentment the selling each other out for clout and favorability ratings.

I'm finding it interesting in a celebrity way and kind of inside look at the deep cooperation and how leaks and information get out.

[davetvs]

I mean, Harry said himself in the Netflix series that the different press offices in each palace work against each other, not with each other, and for the specific royals who live in that particular palace, not the family in totality. He said he and William agreed as children never to let their future press offices pit them against each other and/or throw each other under the bus for the sake of the other, but that went out the window when Meghan came along as the perfect scapegoat to use to distract people from everything the other royals are doing. William cheating on Kate, Prince Andrew's adventures in pedophilia/sexual assault...much easier to blame the Black girl. Especially when she's also an American.

[Zauriel]

We have been hearing some unkind and unflattering rumours about Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. For example, Prince Harry keeps strands of his dead mother's hair at his bedside. How many men keep their deceased mothers' hair at their bedside?

Meghan leaves her pregnancy tests next to the locks of Princess Diana's hair. Would any other woman do this kind of thing?

In her tweets, Candace Owens describes Meghan as psychopathic and manipulative.

Meghan Markle Visited Princess Diana’s Grave to Ask for “Clarity and Guidance,”? That is normal. Many people visit their loved ones' graves to talk to them as if they are alive. They also do that in movies including the one where Rocky Balboa visits his wife's grave and speaks to her as if she was alive.

Harry hugging his mother's grave? That is normal. It is common for men to hug the graves of their family and friends, especially when they are still grieving.

[CaptainEurope]

Candace Owens? Really?

[4theEarth]

I'm 5 hours into the audiobook of 'Spare'. I mean if this doesn't ensure people that Harry HATED the papparazzi his entire life. And he was looking for ANY escape from the UK and the infighting. People that blame Megan still after he clearly lays out the years and years of resentment. When he recounts asking to see his mother's crash photos when he grew up. And goes into detail about seeing the paparazzi's who chased her to death in the photos you can just hear the hatred in his voice.

Still blaming Megan after all of that doesn't make sense at all. I'm not even to him discussing that relationship yet but he talks about his hate and being chased and hounded by them all over the world.

He talks about Camila's team and his dads team selling him out with fake stories and fake rehab to make their marriage after his mother's death have more positive press. So far there is so many examples that he knows what he's doing, Megan is not some puppet master making him sour on his family. It was already there, the resentment the selling each other out for clout and favorability ratings.

I'm finding it interesting in a celebrity way and kind of inside look at the deep cooperation and how leaks and information get out.

Haven't accessed Spare and just assumed my Library waitlist would be huge. What you report seems to confirm my feeling from the get-go that Harry has shaped his life around revenge on the institution if not his family members as well. The press is only part of the institution as he sees it. Its symbiotic relationship doesn't even seem to occur to him as being something they have learned from their experience with his mother.

[4theEarth]

I mean, Harry said himself in the Netflix series that the different press offices in each palace work against each other, not with each other, and for the specific royals who live in that particular palace, not the family in totality. He said he and William agreed as children never to let their future press offices pit them against each other and/or throw each other under the bus for the sake of the other, but that went out the window when Meghan came along as the perfect scapegoat to use to distract people from everything the other royals are doing. William cheating on Kate, Prince Andrew's adventures in pedophilia/sexual assault...much easier to blame the Black girl. Especially when she's also an American.

This is part of the animus that he has toward the institution as if the press offices shouldn't exist and places family and interpersonal relations first when they are trained not to think that way. I am not sure scapegoating is the right word therefore but a bigger bomb to hurl when taking down the Sussex office. American is not just a stereotype here but a real contrast of values in the battle of narratives. Witness how the various presses have treated the curtsy story.

[kidfresh512]

This is part of the animus that he has toward the institution as if the press offices shouldn't exist and places family and interpersonal relations first when they are trained not to think that way. I am not sure scapegoating is the right word therefore but a bigger bomb to hurl when taking down the Sussex office. American is not just a stereotype here but a real contrast of values in the battle of narratives. Witness how the various presses have treated the curtsy story.

That isn't really the takeaway I got from listening to it. He understands the relationship with the press and the different offices. He was willing to work within the structure. Even with everything he recounted they did to his mother, to him all his life. He recounted specific episodes he attributed to Camilla specifically, and his dad wanting better press and using media lies to bash him and make their horrible press look better. He said he went along with it when they made up lies about him needing to go to rehab even though it wasn't true.

He recounted William also complaining about Charles and Camila team doing it to him as well. Then obviously later on the bridesmaid dress issue where it was reported that Megan made Kate cry. But, it was the the other way around. Even printing some of Kate's text messages. I don't think that is bad when they refuse to clear things up and let Megan absorb all that hate. And they begged for help just use the symbiotic relationship to stop the pile on of negative fake, even racist stories and headlines. And they wouldn't help at all. He kept being told everyone has to deal with the bad press and the fake stories just deal and don't try to correct them and fight them. I mean I agree with him when he scoffs at that. Its easy to say that when they aren't the subject of the intense hateful, racist scorn his wife was dealing with because people were believing the fake tabloid stories.

He clearly laid out his argument that he made to the family and their different press people. Even if you ignore the toll it was taking on them not to say anything for the most part. He even made the argument that they should want to get ahead of the racial element especially with a colonial murky dark past and all the commonwealth states where many different races see this type of abuse and the establishment doing nothing about it a different way. They could have taken the lead and say hey no we aren't going to stand for this nonsense. Instead of taking a progressive stance and actively come out strongly as a family they kept telling him just don't read it. And when he did release his own statement on the racist attacks he even details William got mad because he wasn't allowed to defend Kate from attacks but Harry did.

I mean to me I just don't see how he's wrong. He clearly stated they would have stayed, they would have continued working as royals supporting the Queen. Even though he vehemently hated the media, he details specific tabloid writers, and Rupert Murdock got a pretty decent chunk denigrating him and his entire empire of trash.

I mean all the headlines and racist stories, and lies are there for everyone to see. That part is clearly not made up. The royal family responses to any of it? I mean there aren't 2 sides to the story they didn't respond or demand any retractions. So when he says they told him just don't read it over and over again that is clearly true. And to me that is where they messed up.

The biggest takeaway again was that HE made these choices. He was not manipulated by his scheming wife. He has a functioning brain, and a lifetime of grievances and built up frustration at being targeted and not being able to respond. He mentions specific palace personnel who targeted him and kept him away from trying to directly resolve the issues on them stepping back.

He's not even that mean to the family really. I bet there's a lot more he could specifically say. William will obviously not like some of the stuff of exactly how unhelpful he was and Harry describing how they weren't as close as the media portrayals and stories. Clearly they loved each other as brothers that comes across, but Harry just gives it more relatability physical fights, sibling rivalry and jealousies. I found it actually made them more "real", but I can see how it maybe unflattering. He was really nice to his father in it I thought. Even Camila he didn't give her an evil stepmother vibe, but he did paint a more realistic, opportunistic vibe of her using him and the media to make herself look good and able to be Queen one day. There was no family member that was singled out as like HORRID.

He left the harshest condemnation, and attacks if you will for the specific palace aids, insiders of the Queen's team, his father and Camila, and even William and Kate. But, it was clear that while some was done with tactic approval of the family the blame would be the staff.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Saw this on Twitter yesterday and it got a chuckle out of me: