ASM16 & V14 Spoilers and Review: Dark Web Gets Weirder

[Jman27]

You know, we are at the end of the first third of this event and it is now completely apparent that Jean Grey could literally solve all of this easily, giving both Maddie and Ben exactly what they want and yet you just know they’re not gonna gonna go that route and instead make an entire Gordian knot out of it.

jean can help Maddie by giving her memories but can Jean restore memories could have help out wolverine ages ago

[Kurolegacy]

jean can help Maddie by giving her memories but can Jean restore memories could have help out wolverine ages ago

That’s where Peter comes in. She can copy the formative memories from Peter to restore the scaffolding of his identity. From there, the others should be able to be recovered since, from what we saw in Beyond, memories that were lost as a result of Beyond’s tech damaging the mental scaffolding aren’t completely gone and can be recovered. I’d say a powerful telepath like Jean could unlock those a lot faster than Kafka’s machine especially with her having experience downloading a person’s entire memory into their body thanks to the resurrection protocols. Hell Ben piecing his remaining memories back after getting his moral center could even make for a good plot for them to give him something to do that doesn’t include ruining his character. It could be like a new generation of Lost Years.

[The Negative Zone]

You know I actually enjoyed this issue. Peter didn't hold back and had a cool moment but he wasn't prepared for Ben's tricks. I really like the offensive spider-sense power, but I don't understand how he gets weapons? Falling into goo (which I don't recall Beyond saying it was any sort of special kind of goo) doesn't believably explain it to me.

I also laughed at the talking scooter bit.

One last thing though, the flashback nightmare sequence was just bad. The Alpha story already explained stuff through Ben's warped perspective, we don't need more of them imo.

[Kurolegacy]

You know I actually enjoyed this issue. Peter didn't hold back and had a cool moment but he wasn't prepared for Ben's tricks. I really like the offensive spider-sense power, but I don't understand how he gets weapons? Falling into goo (which I don't recall Beyond saying it was any sort of special kind of goo) doesn't believably explain it to me.

I also laughed at the talking scooter bit.

One last thing though, the flashback nightmare sequence was just bad. The Alpha story already explained stuff through Ben's warped perspective, we don't need more of them imo.

I theorize that since it’s psychoreactive goo that he fell into that it further unlocked the psychic potential of his spider sense allowing for him to create psyonic constructs.

[Zeitgeist]

I'm just quoting you to say that I agree 100% with your signature.

Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.jpg

I think Ben should be a little goofy if they're going with the "dark reflection" angle. But with the initial flashback they're treating Ben's situation, trauma and brain damage for laughs. That is the weird tone of it all.

Yeah, fair. It's so off-the-wall I initially thought he had to be doing it on purpose just to F with Peter.

[Huntsman Spider]

I mean can Al Ewing do any wrong, i mean seriously. Ben having the whole in his head being the reason for chasm. The "villains" actually connecting and forming bonds for each other and having actual reasons for what they are doing rather than mustache twirling, having awareness of what they are doing, even questioning it, but discovering their resolves to do basically what the heroes do. Protect each other. I always love how theres a little corner he explores that brings out big thoughts because there is always another perspective and to some it may seem like the x-men are heroes living in their tree house and when your so wrapped up in the sacrifices you had to make and just getting through life you can't always look up to see what someone is going through but envy can come easy when the down is up. Why am i loving the "villains" so much in this event.

So many great little details like krakoan wood being tough for the acid etc. I mean the man doesn't leave a stone unturned. And the way he writes synch, whoo, i know his muscles tired the way he was calling them powers this issue. Taking control of the symbiot and basically teaching eddie about his powers. my boy dangerous ya'll. Just EEEEEE!!! lol

some of my fave panels.
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Having read this as well, definitely can count on Al Ewing to make something good and solid out of what's so far been a largely mishandled premise, at least when it comes to the Spider-side of this event. That said, Spidercide coming back as Chasm, like someone else suggested in this thread, would have been a lot better, at least for a rebrand, if nothing else. While I do think Janine's embittered perspective is understandable in light of what she's endured over the course of her life, I'm anticipating that Maddie using S'ym's finger to give her powers may have had a somewhat corruptive effect on her mental state. Oh, and Synch beating Venom with his own powers was a great feat for him, though in light of that accelerating Eddie Brock's transformation into his even-more-deranged future counterpart Bedlam . . . big trouble ahead.

[JustLuke]

I theorize that since it’s psychoreactive goo that he fell into that it further unlocked the psychic potential of his spider sense allowing for him to create psyonic constructs.

You know, that actually makes a bit of sense and if that is the case then I think his powers are even cooler!

[boots]

I've talked to people at my LCS and viewed the reactions on social media. It's not a popular direction at all. The views of Pav, Alex etc, are just a minority, even the big time Spider-Man podcasts who shill for it to get perks acknowledge there's a backlash and that it isn't an ideal scenario.

i've been pretty clear that this is not my preferred take on ben, but also that marvel are (obviously) free to experiment with finding a new audience for the character and best of luck to them (and look, "not gooooo" did make me lmao...)

as far as social media as a barometer of success goes: i think we can easily get caught up focusing on comments for obvious reasons. they're meaty and often we look for opinion that reflects our own.

though sometimes on the same post, if you take a look at the likes and they can far outnumber the comments. silent views/engagement often even higher.

popularity isn't as clear as it might initially seem.

[Huntsman Spider]

i've been pretty clear that this is not my preferred take on ben, but also that marvel are (obviously) free to experiment with finding a new audience for the character and best of luck to them (and look, "not gooooo" did make me lmao...)

as far as social media as a barometer of success goes: i think we can easily get caught up focusing on comments for obvious reasons. they're meaty and often we look for opinion that reflects our own.

though sometimes on the same post, if you take a look at the likes and they can far outnumber the comments. silent views/engagement often even higher.

popularity isn't as clear as it might initially seem.

Almost nothing is clear as it seems at first. You do have a good point there.

[Pav]

I kinda wouldn't mind if they had him develop these powers to further distinguish him from Peter. Maybe they can be like Kaine's own heightened abilities, with his Mark of Kaine and Precognition powers being mutated(?) versions of Peter's ability to stick to things and his Spider-Sense respectively. They even kinda teased the idea of Ben's powers evolving in Planet of the Symbiotes, with his hunches and stuff, though that just turned out to be the Venom symbiote attatching itself to his hoodie. Just a thought, but it could be cool.

Overall, I like the Chasm powers -- specifically, the offensive spider-sense and the mind-chasming others -- but I still prefer Ben to be a "perfect clone" of Peter Parker, and my preference would be for him to have the same powers as well. But I do understand why Marvel may feel Ben needs to be differentiated, and there are worse ideas than "offensive spider-sense," I think.

As a side-note, I always loved Kaine's original powerset and wish he'd go back to it.

As to the review I don’t really agree with PAV on anything.

I think we can both agree that ASM16 is a comic!

We finally got our Spidey vs Chasm fight, pals, and guess what? It ruled.

The big brother\little brother dynamic Pete and Ben have is tremendous fun. I don't think the tone would've worked with Kaine--him and Pete just don't have the same familiarity as these two do. Pete giving Chasm the W to save Jonah is Spidey 101. Love to see it.

Benji, meanwhile, is all sorts of twisted. I think of editorial's idea of making him the new Venom, and I'm starting to see it. If anything, it's a fun look at what would happen if Spidey forgot all about Uncle Ben and his morals. Let's see where it gets him.

Even back in the 90s Clone Saga, Ben and Peter mixed it up plenty despite both essentially sharing the protagonist role more often than not, and I agree that it is fun to see the brotherly rivalry flare up from time to time. I just wish Wells and those currently making decisions at Marvel didn't see the need to make Ben such a clear villain, even if I understand the storytelling potential in setting up Ben and Peter in adversarial situations.

I'd rather have a serious, grounded story with nuance thankyou, not a Saturday morning s*itfest
And that is the whole problem, it lacks that emotional and intellectual depth that someone like DeMatteis could easily bring to the book if he were at all interested in exploring Chasm. Why should we just 'settle' for so much less?

I also think Beyond and now Dark Web could've been much more acceptable and palatable if it was a tighter story with more realistic, emotional depth. That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with comics skewing more towards the "cartoony" side. There's room for both.

Incidentally, I recently read an old issue of Marvel Team-Up featuring Spidey and Devil-Slayer fighting a bunch of lizard men to rescue a relic from a spider-temple! It was goofy as heck. The writer? J.M. DeMatteis, of course. Even he has his stories that fall a little flat. It was still a fun romp, though. (And it had a cool Defenders appearance!)

I think that's the key question, but when you think about it, there's definitely a case for him to be goofy. Peter Parker as Spider-Man is a goofy hero after all, and Ben is his clone. There's something to be said for lived experiences, nature vs. nurture and all of that but I can understand why, if Ben is being played as a dark reflection of sorts, why they'd take the trademark Spidey quips and apply them to Chasm.

And honestly, if you think back to when Venom became an anti-hero, all of a sudden he was making quips and jokes too, which never felt right to me. As I said earlier, even if I don't like Ben being used as an "evil mirror version," it makes sense that writers would want to use him in that way.

I've talked to people at my LCS and viewed the reactions on social media. It's not a popular direction at all. The views of Pav, Alex etc, are just a minority, even the big time Spider-Man podcasts who shill for it to get perks acknowledge there's a backlash and that it isn't an ideal scenario.

I'm going to need a proper study with a sample size of at least 1000 before making any determinations regarding who or what is the majority

Although, honestly -- what "view" do I have that's in the minority? I'm always quick to say that I don't prefer Ben as Chasm, and while I've often enjoyed my reading experiences during Beyond and Dark Web, I'm not one to ignore problems in a story; for example, I mentioned in my review how silly it is for Ben to jokingly not care about what happened to him during Beyond when it's the very basis for his heel turn. I'd like to think there's a lot of people out there who enjoyed their reading experience -- I hope they do anyway! -- even if, like us, they don't want to see Ben as a villain. It's not impossible to both validly critique and appreciate a comic, or any other piece of art for that matter. And I guess, sometimes, certain individuals may not find anything worth appreciating. Doesn't mean others are wrong in doing so, though.

I mean can Al Ewing do any wrong, i mean seriously.

So many great little details like krakoan wood being tough for the acid etc. I mean the man doesn't leave a stone unturned.

Y'know, there was so much to write about in my original post that I TOTALLY FORGOT that Al Ewing made mention of Ben's impact webbing and had Janine use a variation on the theme! That's something a lot of us have wanted to see since Ben's return, and for some reason neither Slott nor PAD nor Wells thought to utilize impact webbing nor Ben's stingers.

At least the Chasm costume has Ben's Scarlet-style webshooters on the outside. Call me shallow for allowing a good costume to persuade me into at least contemplating Ben's new status, but hey -- part of the reason I love the guy is because of how much I loved his Scarlet Spider costume as a kid!

You know, we are at the end of the first third of this event and it is now completely apparent that Jean Grey could literally solve all of this

Hahaha, it really is true. Maybe the reason I'm still able to enjoy the story despite Ben's heel turn is because the problems with the story are SO apparent.

You know I actually enjoyed this issue. Peter didn't hold back and had a cool moment but he wasn't prepared for Ben's tricks. I really like the offensive spider-sense power, but I don't understand how he gets weapons? Falling into goo (which I don't recall Beyond saying it was any sort of special kind of goo) doesn't believably explain it to me.

One thing I don't like about Ben's new powers is the ability to manufacture weapons out of his green misty and/or spider-sense. I'd be okay if that power manifested itself in a spider-themed way, like different webs or something, but making axes and whatnot doesn't scream "Spider-Person" to me. That being said, Peter has used his normal webbing to make objects in the past, so *shrugs*

-Pav, who wonders how long until Queen Goblin is exorcised of Norman's sins, so she can then help restore Ben's memories (because it seems inevitable)...