Conner Kent/Kon-El/Superboy Appreciation 2023

[Will Evans]

All three of them-Tim, Kon and Cassie are in a perfect position to be rebranded and made into something spectacular much in the same way that Dick was moved past Robin into Nightwing and Wally to Flash. But do they go back to being Young Justice, the Teen Titans? is that a case of two steps forward one step back? I love Young Justice and would buy the title in a heartbeat with just those three (with Impulse.) Or is it that they should restart Young Justice and then use that as a vehicle to move the three of those forward?

Even with Visaggio's terrible attempt at a story, Kon is at a perfect spot to move forward...just if DC would let him. We know that Cassie is at least getting a new costume coming up in Wonder Woman courtesy of Daniel Sampere. But who could be capable of actually giving us a GOOD story with Kon moving forward?

Kon is scheduled to be in the Speed Force miniseries with Kid Flash and Avery Ho

[Super_kon]

I can find so many things in the pitch that tells me that she doesn’t get the character despite her “love”.
Page 1
- he never led any team.
- while his first words were don’t ever call me Superboy, that was his lone name for a while and he embraced it.
Page 2
-“Conner is going to have an identity crisis.” He’s had many since Johns. This one is forced.
- a third of his DNA is Lex. He’s been 50% Lex not counting new 52 Kon.
- “he’s a secondary superson”. He never was a primary one, let alone secondary.
- “what happens when he grows up” see adventure comics, legion of three worlds, Bendis had him being a father. He’s shown that he’s capable as an adult. The big idea has been answered numerous times. He’s not just a clone, and that’s why he endures. He’s supposed to be a copy but made his own path. His family and home isn’t just Clark’s. It’s Conner’s as well.

I could go on, but the vehicles Mags uses are lazy. ( genetic instability, etc ). This is why I don’t like the pitch. It’s forced, lazy, and shows a lack of understanding or knowledge of the characters history. It’s writers like this that have no strong direction for the character after their agendas are realized. Say what you want about johns forcing the Lex Retcon. At least his agenda led into 20+ issues of Titans, 2 Superboy titles, and a huge impact in line wide events like Infinite Crisis etc.

Rant over.

[PyroTwilight]

Yeah I didn't get what the 1/3rd bit was a reference to. The New 52 Superboy?

I remember folks pointing out to her that wasn't even the same Superboy to which she just said there was a plan. Clearly not a good one though.

[KurtW95]

I’m old enough to remember the uproar of how iceman’s coming out was. Nothing about it was natural progression and Jean Grey outing Bobby to himself was decried, unlike many tumblr/ fan fic people like viggs want to believe.

It was and still is nonsense. The sexual orientation or gender identities of characters should not be changed.

yeah that was one of the stupidest plots ever. People tried to argue it was supported by years of "hints" but that was grasping at straws. there was more to the contrary than supporting.

It always is. There typically aren't any hints. And even if there were, but they came very recently, it should not override who the character was supposed to be. People argued made the argument that he wasn't pursuing Jean in the first issue. First of all, he pursued her pretty soon after. Second, he was on a date with a woman when he was attacked and powers went of and then was recruited into the X-Men. We saw his thoughts and know that he likes women. The only suggestion that he was gay came from Family Guy mocking him. And the certain fans who want to make every character gay. Who can twist every possible piece of writing as justification. He's girl crazy? Overcompensating. Not girl crazy? Must like guys. Good friends with a guy? Clearly likes him. Not good friends with any guys? Clearly afraid of getting close because of his true feelings. Keep in mind that he was the youngest X-Men character. How old was he anyway? Because I didn't develop sexual attraction until I was around 15. And while sexual orientation changes have happened earlier, Bendis really changed the precedent and made it possible to happen with any character. And none of this is to suggest that there shouldn't be gay characters. Creators should just not change existing straight characters. Or go the cheap route of making them bi and never having a straight relationship again. And a lot of these ideas come from headcanons and ideas of queer coding which are oftentimes entirely in the imagination of the fan. Byrne mentioned that they got letters like that about different characters, but they didn't take them into consideration because the fans were projecting themselves onto the straight character. And this is the guy who created the first male and female characters that were openly not straight at DC and Marvel. So, fare be it from him to argue that all characters must be straight. Comics have had such fans a long time, but it wasn't until recently that creators started changing the characters to banter to them. And to most of these people, there is not a single straight character that they wouldn't oppose retconning.

And this writer clearly mentioned the retcon to kiss up to Bendis, who was writing Superman at the time. And there's a tweet from some years ago where he implies to back it. And the idea that Conner is not a man because of his haircut and taste in music is so regressive. Are men not allowed to like women musicians now? And the whole not wanting to be called Superboy idea was because he wanted to be called Superman. I don't know how someone who claims to be a fan can be so ignorant of his history.

[Super_kon]

It was and still is nonsense. The sexual orientation or gender identities of characters should not be changed.

this is where I agree to disagree. If it's shown in a respectful way and not shoehorned, I’m okay with it. For example in Batman Urban legends, it was obvious what they were doing with Tim. However, it was the characterization of Stephanie that made it unbelievable. Now, was it made to bring diversity in the Batman family? Yes. Could it have been done to sooner, also yes. But part of me thinks that this could have been done with a fresher character with less history to elevate them like Duke Thomas instead of trying to refresh a character for LGBT sake. Once again, because I don’t want to come off as discriminatory, the history of Tim being one of the few acknowledged VIRGINS could have been used as an indicator to progress his coming out, but instead it was cast aside for the vehicle of Bernard and Steph’s awful characterization.

And all of that didn’t lead to Tim becoming relevant again and a comic failing in under 15 issues.

[Primal Slayer]

As with everything - it has to make some sense. People cone out later in life. Some do everything to suppress it. It's no different in comics. But it should be dealt with properly and again .... make some kind of sense

[Mantis-Ray]

I guess the question is, did Visaggio actually an ongoing in mind with stories and characters for Connor to adventure in, or was this all entirely to facilitate Connor's transition?

[PyroTwilight]

I guess the question is, did Visaggio actually an ongoing in mind with stories and characters for Connor to adventure in, or was this all entirely to facilitate Connor's transition?

Honestly that's arguably one of the biggest weaknesses, the pitch entirely runs on the idea of that simply making Connor Connie will somehow generate stories just because she'd be trans then. There's not really any stories or direction in the pitch beyond she'll be trans so the comics can deal with trans issues. That's it. That's the direction.

[marhawkman]

Honestly that's arguably one of the biggest weaknesses, the pitch entirely runs on the idea of that simply making Connor Connie will somehow generate stories just because she'd be trans then. There's not really any stories or direction in the pitch beyond she'll be trans so the comics can deal with trans issues. That's it. That's the direction.

Yeah skimmed the pitch and it's a SHORT term pitch about redefining the status quo... and leave it for someone else to worry about.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Mags tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/stat...05373489172703

[PyroTwilight]

Mags tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/stat...05373489172703

I’m assuming that’s in reference to her bringing in the trans allegory from the YJ Cartoon with Miss Martian, which was basically teased earlier by her with Miss M

But obviously this was Mags trying to basically set up gender envy for her pitch.

[Vordan]

Yeah Mags is never working at DC again. She’s clearly pissed off and is trying to force it at this point. Good luck to Williamson and Williams.

[PyroTwilight]

Yeah Mags is never working at DC again. She’s clearly pissed off and is trying to force it at this point. Good luck to Williamson and Williams.

Oh, I doubt that she forced anything but it is pretty obvious that it’s supposed to be groundwork for the pitch, which she’s already said.

Can’t blame her for trying.

Though you can blame her for it being shoddy.

[Digifiend]

Yeah its a great name ..... that's why it is already used by another DC character. Suer take the name away from a strong black woman character and give it to a trans Superboy. That would go over great. No one would be upset by that.

And when did she last appear? DC could just give it to Conner to renew the trademark.

supergirl fire wings wouldnt that get in the way of her cape?

Her cape vanished when she was using those wings, I think it actually became the wings.

So was DC actually considering going forward with this only to change their minds later or was it just Visaggio writing a pitch they turned down?

Definitrely not going forward now it's been publicly revealed. If it was a year in planning, then the backup was an inventory story from a year ago! And it's all we're getting.

I can find so many things in the pitch that tells me that she doesn’t get the character despite her “love”.

- he never led any team.

- “he’s a secondary superson”. He never was a primary one, let alone secondary.

Yeah, Tim and Cassie led Young Justice and Teen Titans, not Conner. But what about the Ravers?

And yeah, definitely not a Super Son. Clark treats him as a little brother, not a son, he's Jon's uncle.

[OBrianTallent]

Yeah Mags is never working at DC again. She’s clearly pissed off and is trying to force it at this point. Good luck to Williamson and Williams.

One can only hope.