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  1. #1036
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Does Metallo or Parasite have a famous story or something ? Like Mxy with “Whatever happen to the Man Of Tommorow?” Or Mongul with “For the Man who has everything”? Heck, with Zod you could say Last Son.

  2. #1037
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Does Metallo or Parasite have a famous story or something ? Like Mxy with “Whatever happen to the Man Of Tommorow?” Or Mongul with “For the Man who has everything”? Heck, with Zod you could say Last Son.
    Does Secret Origin count?

  3. #1038
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Enh they don't use her that much as a villain either. Most of what makes her so interesting is her personality. That doesn't change whether she's a hero or villain. Writing her as an anti-hero who sometimes causes trouble just because that's her whim for the day... enh, I think fits her better than a true villain... since she's never been a major villain.
    Yeah it does. Her entire personality changed when they tried to “redeem” her last time. And the solution is to use her more as a villain, not make her a useless anti-hero who is redundant. She’s not getting any more play as “Harley Lite”. Williamson is using her as a villain right now and it’s great. All they have to do is keep building on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Does Metallo or Parasite have a famous story or something ? Like Mxy with “Whatever happen to the Man Of Tommorow?” Or Mongul with “For the Man who has everything”? Heck, with Zod you could say Last Son.
    A “famous” story? No. There’s been some good stories featuring them but none that have clicked together to the perfect extent that they’re the go-to. I guess like Frontier said, Secret Origin has sort of become the basis for modern Metallo, and I do think PKJ’s Metallo story is the one that did a great job diving into what his deal is - but that was undercut by how the real villain turned out to be Henshaw. If someone can build on what PKJ established about Metallo, how he’s this anti-Iron Giant, then I think we could finally get that great story. Or maybe Venditti will do a good job with his Russian Metallo.

    Parasite doesn’t have anything honestly. First arc of Williamson was a fun use of him but it’s not deep at all.
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  4. #1039
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah it does. Her entire personality changed when they tried to “redeem” her last time. And the solution is to use her more as a villain, not make her a useless anti-hero who is redundant. She’s not getting any more play as “Harley Lite”. Williamson is using her as a villain right now and it’s great. All they have to do is keep building on that.
    Enh, my fave use of post "redemption" Livewire was in that Blue Beetle comic.

    That was a good way to use her as an antagonist role but not a true villain.

    Also... the Auctioneer story. That was a neat way to use her that's not just a typical hero.

    The "Harley lite" angle is a weird one to take since... Livewire can do different things in a story than Harley can. Livewire isn't crazy, she's edgy because it's cool, Also her idea of cool is a sort of goth-punk take that most find... questionable. But that makes her personality have a different twist to it.

  5. #1040
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  6. #1041
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Definitely New 52 inspired.

  7. #1042
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Does Metallo or Parasite have a famous story or something ? Like Mxy with “Whatever happen to the Man Of Tommorow?” Or Mongul with “For the Man who has everything”? Heck, with Zod you could say Last Son.
    Well, in the animated series Metallo had really some good episodes focused on him.

    parasite, no so much. There is the second volume of Superman Earth one where Parasite was the main antagonist. But both they lack a good story than defines them as menaces to Superman at a level beyond the physical menace.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

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  8. #1043
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    Well, in the animated series Metallo had really some good episodes focused on him.

    parasite, no so much. There is the second volume of Superman Earth one where Parasite was the main antagonist. But both they lack a good story than defines them as menaces to Superman at a level beyond the physical menace.
    Power of Parasite, Power Play, and Absolute Power Play really ensured that Parasite is a really big deal. It's weird how underrated they are, but then I think the last time a Parasite "won" without help was Trial of Superman.

    To the question that seems more like "did Alan Moore ever write a Metallo/Parasite story"? Well no. Maybe in one of his homage comics.
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  9. #1044
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    What keeps tripping Metallo up is:

    1. Failure to give Metallo a long term goal beyond killing Superman. His origin as a solider should make this easy. Corben fought for a cause, a higher ideal in the form of his nation once, give him something like that again. Could be a desire to push back against alien influence (where I thought PKJ was going), or revenge against a government that used him as a weapon then made peace with Superman once it was in their interest to do so, or even a desire to strike out on his own. But he needs a cause that will push him to kill others and doesn’t concern itself solely with Superman because Metallo obviously can never “win” if his goal is just killing Supes.
    2. The Kryptonite. It’s boring. Metallo exposes his chest, Supes flops on the floor like a fish, then Metallo jobs. A fight between Superman and Metallo should be something like this:

    Metallo should be deploying all sorts of anti-Superman weaponry and kicking Clark’s ass, Supes should be a bloody mess when the fight finishes. Metallo should have counters for Clark’s speed, flight, heat vision, frost breath, etc. That makes for a more exciting fight between the two. Love whenever he has the ability to turn himself into a Mecha like in Superman Lost.
    3. Sticking him as the underling. It’s fine if he occasionally gets press ganged into service by another villain, but to really break out he needs an arc where he’s the sole villain or failing that the leader. I totally think he could carry an arc on his own, which is why my one disappointment with the PKJ Metallo arc (despite really liking a lot of what it did) is that he ended up being the side villain for Henshaw by the end.

    What keeps tripping Parasite up is:

    1. Making him sympathetic. It’s the wrong route to go, he’s way more entertaining as an unrepentant bad guy which is why MAWS Parasite is his best adaption despite changing so much. Parasite eats people and is a terrifying body horror monster. Keeping him sympathetic means he’s just chewing on power stations or whatever and that’s lame.
    2. Similar to Metallo he needs some kind of long term goal besides killing and eating Supes. Or he needs to be portrayed as a kind of walking plague where his goal is ultimately to consume everyone.
    3. His powerset should be upgraded so it’s not just stealing/copying powers. Clark already has too many villains who are just evil versions of him, Parasite should be different. Ideally I think he should be like Alex Mercer from the [PROTOTYPE] games. He consumes people and then uses the extra body mass to reshape his body into living weapons through biokinesis. He can shapeshift and gets the knowledge and memories of anyone he consumes (comic Paraiste has the knowledge absorption powerset already). This would really upgrade him into a terror to fight.
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  10. #1045
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Metallo:
    - isn't metalo, but honorable mention for the one opponent who could actually just brawl with Superman back then

    - the evil Clark thing is nutty. I don't think it's possible now because of so many similar ideas (Action #1058 just recently) but I scratched my chin thinking about it a bit when evil Clark showed up in Rebirth.

    - Roger's mostly famous for his look, to the point that Johns randomly took it for his Secret Origins, but I think there's a missing niche of an AIM/GI Joe style villain.

    - post crisis John is considered most iconic from the portrayal with McDowell for the cartoon. It's a little ironic though because the tragic emphasis was hardly there in the comics and he essentially became a gag character after his first appearance, cycling through different bodies and powers once he lost his kryptonite. For all the "he's a Terminator!" stuff even though he came first and a walking metal skeleton isn't a proprietary concept (hi Brainiac), I think Ordway did an excellent job lampshading that with Adventures #491. It's really a shame for him that Hank came so early into the era because the technology changing with the times thing could only be exploited better as the years went on.

    - so he's often been tragic or a stooge since then, with stories playing up how John never set out to be a monster. I get it, it's a good and novel idea. He's like Kirk Langstrom or Morbius I guess but with a sci-fi edge. Speaking of Parasite they also played Beavis and Butthead in the Last Son story, which I did find fun. I don't like the soldier boy under Thunderbolt Lane thing that they tried several times but I understand trying to make John matter aside from his condition.

    - PKJ and Priest used him very well this year, playing on what is considered the classic John Corben. And y'know what, all you can do is use a character well moving forward. The name of the game is what have you done lately.
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  11. #1046
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Power of Parasite, Power Play, and Absolute Power Play really ensured that Parasite is a really big deal. It's weird how underrated they are, but then I think the last time a Parasite "won" without help was Trial of Superman.

    To the question that seems more like "did Alan Moore ever write a Metallo/Parasite story"? Well no. Maybe in one of his homage comics.
    No, Moore didn't make any "Metallo" nor "Parasite" story in his Homage run.

    I say it is more than even if Parasite and Metallo are real big menaces, they never had been a threat conceptually or idealogically to Superman in the same way as other characters are. Metallo had been expanded more recently but it is still to early be cemented.

    About Parasite... Maybe the most interesting story was when Parasite posed as Lois Lane, taking away something Superman loved. It was a really twisted story. But also is the fact than there has been several versions of the Parasite and most of them even if different were interchangeable. There is no a definitve version of the prasite in that sense.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

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  12. #1047
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    About Parasite... Maybe the most interesting story was when Parasite posed as Lois Lane, taking away something Superman loved. It was a really twisted story. But also is the fact than there has been several versions of the Parasite and most of them even if different were interchangeable. There is no a definitve version of the prasite in that sense.
    OMG! If you're referring to the one from the Loeb/McGuinness run, then that was totally Awesome (IMHO):


  13. #1048
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Enh, my fave use of post "redemption" Livewire was in that Blue Beetle comic.

    That was a good way to use her as an antagonist role but not a true villain.

    Also... the Auctioneer story. That was a neat way to use her that's not just a typical hero.

    The "Harley lite" angle is a weird one to take since... Livewire can do different things in a story than Harley can. Livewire isn't crazy, she's edgy because it's cool, Also her idea of cool is a sort of goth-punk take that most find... questionable. But that makes her personality have a different twist to it.
    That was a pretty good interpretation because she kept her basic personality and was not really “reformed”.

    the Superman: TAS Livewire was great because she was a villain that Superman couldn’t beat by just punching. She was living electricity so he couldn’t touch her. He had to outwit her to win.

    I hate when she’s portrayed as just a villain who can throw electricity. That’s a very low tier Superman threat.

  14. #1049
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I hate when she’s portrayed as just a villain who can throw electricity. That’s a very low tier Superman threat.
    Like that time she lost to Batgirl. what? why? read it several times, still dumb. It has A; a Livewire-proof batsuit that wasn't even designed to fight Livewire. B; it treated getting wet as an instant "I win" button when fighting Livewire. C; Batgirl literally does a flying kick to break a fire hydrant. D; and just stands there and lets Batgirl hit her.

  15. #1050
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    No, Moore didn't make any "Metallo" nor "Parasite" story in his Homage run.

    I say it is more than even if Parasite and Metallo are real big menaces, they never had been a threat conceptually or idealogically to Superman in the same way as other characters are. Metallo had been expanded more recently but it is still to early be cemented.

    About Parasite... Maybe the most interesting story was when Parasite posed as Lois Lane, taking away something Superman loved. It was a really twisted story. But also is the fact than there has been several versions of the Parasite and most of them even if different were interchangeable. There is no a definitve version of the prasite in that sense.
    Freeman was kinda cool, like a compensation for the fact that Rudy wasn't really cunning. But Jensen was a really bad dude. His pre Crisis tagline, "Superman's most deadly villain." It held up because he wasn't indiscriminate but plain nasty





    He bullied pre Crisis, planet busting, time travelling Superman with head games and usually kicked his ass when it came down to it. Eventually he became so bent on sadism that he actually broke into tears when his plans fell apart. One of my other old favorites was Kryptonite Kid and they were like bad apples from the same tree.
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