That Jeff-shaped stuff will just be more issues of her It's Jeff digital comics. Too bad, after the current arc I was thinking she might move over to an X book.
That Jeff-shaped stuff will just be more issues of her It's Jeff digital comics. Too bad, after the current arc I was thinking she might move over to an X book.
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The impact a pair of shades, a coffee cup, and this outfit, has had on X-Fans is amazing. A strong design can do so much for a character. Lorna looks wonderful here, and the artist did an amazing job.
It's hard to answer this, because I don't know who out there is a really big fan of Polaris. I'd love to see someone with a passion for the character get the opportunity to write Lorna, but I don't know who exactly that would be.
I agree that it would be great to see a big Lorna fan in the X-Office.
I am completely burned out the coffee and I have a PhD nonsense when Lorna can go to Genosha for the first time in 19 years and her history there and feelings about it aren't touched on even in passing, but we can have two bleeping coffee related discussions in the text. She can go to see her sort of sister and coffee and the PhD comes up repeatedly, but Magneto's death doesn't come up once. It certainly did when Storm came by to interact with Wanda.
Lorna feels like a meme right now. I didn't expect much from her Genosha visit. It is Kitty Pryde's story after all. But, it didn't move the ball forward with the character at all nor provide any window or insight in the character that fans or writers can use.
Sentinels created by Stark Industries will be used to attack mutants this Spring. What she feels about Sentinels is highly relevant. What she feels about her daily Cup of Joe is not. The coffee gave the character some grounding and while that is important it should be additional to an actual point of view not in lieu of a prospective and belief system.
Last edited by jmc247; 03-23-2023 at 10:10 AM.
As a lurker here and a 30 year fan of this character, it's really hard to want to come back here sometimes because there can be so much negativity.
I get that we all want a deep character study of Polaris, but I think taking a step back and looking at the overall trends is really important during a rebranding. The -entire X-Franchise- has been re-envisioned into something brand new. Everyone is finding their new path first. From my perspective, they ARE taking the original Fan-Vote seriously, and I kindof appreciate that they aren't just slinging her into the middle of the spotlight where fans will feel like she's shoved down their throats, just because she was voted that way. Instead, there is a slow, steady build for her character showing up all over the place. It might not have been how we fans expected, but...
Meme culture doesn't have to be a "bad thing". If they build up a presence, some iconic imagery of her, that kind of thing gets people talking. That kind of thing gets NEW fans who never gravitated toward the character before. That kind of thing propels a character into the spotlight the -right- way. They are building a new foundation for her as a character in a way that Marvel has -never done-. The closest we got in the past was what... a recycling ad with She-Hulk decades ago? A 90's swimsuit edition?
Quite frankly, I couldn't stand Krakoan X-Factor, she was boring and everyone on the team had this "I have to prove myself" mentality. I don't think it was a good direction for any of the characters, so for them to completely reinterpret where they wanted Polaris to go based on our votes is awesome. They aren't just pandering to long-time Polaris fans, putting her in a position that reflects the past but keeps her out of the limelight (Krakoan X-Factor), they aren't keeping her locked to Magneto or Havok. Insert some powerful imagery, some campy comic humor, and they've slowly (yet quickly, in the big picture) been building a direction for her, building her relationships with teammates, with her sister, rebuilding a presence beyond the X-line even... they are saying "Where do we want Polaris to go?"
And I love that.
Queen of Mutants, Mistress of Magnetism, Magnetrix and the MII, Pestilence of the Horsemen of Apocalypse, the Krakoan Oracle and creator of the Sanctus Sacrum Tournament Key, the Threshold Seed Shaper, Brood Queen of the Fall of the House of X, Lorna Sally Dane, Ph.D., of the House of M, Polaris of the X-Men
I couldn't stand X-Factor Lorna. She felt like an insecure teenager took her place. Her relationship with Magneto was completely re-written and not in a good way and yes it was likely going to descend into Magneto vs Havok nonsense as they did in Blue. The issues with Sinister ribbing Magneto about Lorna and Havok hanging out were cardinal signs of that.
You are talking to someone who supported the coffee meme for quite awhile, but not as a replacement for her having points of view and prospectives. A meme is fine if it gets people's attention and then leads to actual character development.Meme culture doesn't have to be a "bad thing". If they build up a presence, some iconic imagery of her, that kind of thing gets people talking.
I think Fall of X could move her story forward, but right now she is treading water. Unlike Salarta I did not boycott Scarlet Witch #3 and Marauders #11/12, but one single thought bubble on issues that matter could have significantly improved each issue for Lorna.
The lack of even a one panel conversation about Magneto's death in the Scarlet Witch issue (which Wanda had with Storm) or even a one bubble comment about Genosha from Lorna in two issues of Marauders injured unnecessarily the issues.
I liked Orlando's call back to New X-Men 132 with his story. Subtracting Lorna it was a fine story. But, for Lorna will her fans in five or ten years from now look back to these issues as something that should be read? I suspect they won't because nothing could be discerned about Lorna and what she believes or feels.
Its possible they are waiting for Fall of X to drop to start playing their cards with Lorna and I do think that might be the start of a militant arc for her. But, if so they are playing it too coy and putting the surprise factor over the build.
As for your comment about not coming here because it's too negative. It was very positive for about 6 months of Duggan's run and you weren't around. It started getting progressively less positive as her profile dropped and it became clear they were avoiding explaining what Lorna actually believes about stuff that matters and it only turned negative after Judgement Day when something so big happened that it hurt Lorna's story and character quite a lot to ignore it. They might get to it, but we are talking a year or longer wait only after quite a few other characters have already dealt with it in-depth.
Last edited by jmc247; 03-23-2023 at 06:40 AM.
I do wonder if Marvel publishing didn't overlearn the lesson of the negative response to William's Lorna melting down when Magneto said mean things to her and of course her over the top double decker emotional break down at Rockslides death. She emoted there like an unworldly 15-year-old not a survivor or grizzled wounded vet.
Going over the top emotional with Lorna when its undeserved hurts the character and it was undeserved in X-Factor and Trial of Magneto. By the same token she just touched down on what should be to her something similar to Magneto's returns to the camps and she was implacable and focused on coffee. She didn't need to be falling over bawling her eyes out a la Magneto on the famous Legacy cover.
But, it needed some emotion from her that was missing.
Should fans buy it? For Kitty's story yes. I felt that her story was good and her emotion there was balanced.
Last edited by jmc247; 03-22-2023 at 01:43 PM.
I've seen there's some desire for positivity and more uplifting messages on the Polaris front. Here's my version of it.
Real change takes time. When I say real change, I mean change that's genuine, stable, persistent. Comic books, especially X-Men comics, like to put on an insincere air of change. They like to talk a big talk about how everything's new, everything's different, anything can happen at any moment... only to repeat the exact same beats done time and time again. Only this time it's cherry flavored!
This is because of who runs the show: old white men. A fan will point to a specific writer or artist, how they're female or a person of color or LGBTQIA+, and say "Ha this proves it's actually a very diverse office!" But that's just the talent, and even the talent is still outnumbered by white men. Bearing that in mind, old white men generally have a very narrow perspective of what counts as change. Their concept of diversity isn't whole. For the most part, diversity is a marketing gimmick for them. Done because not doing it would look bad, and maybe it can draw readers to "characters that matter." Outside of that, the closest thing to "support" for diversity out of old white men is exotifying and fetishizing it.
Why does all of this matter? Because the people running things today are not young up and comers that understand and actually care about what people want and need out of the comics. They're people who have been working in comics for 20+ years. They're people whose minds were fixed in bygone eras, and they don't want to open up to changing times. Not in any real, genuine way. Only surface level ways. Ways that kept their old white guy interests intact.
Lorna is a character struggling through this atmosphere, and has been for her whole existence. I'm not talking just about her treatment in the "golden age" or the 90s or the current "Krakoa era." It's right down to her first stories, when the concept of a woman planned as an X-Men ally also being a child of the X-Men's big bad, and being more feminist in attitude than her contemporaries of the time to boot, was so pearl-clutchingly taboo that they swiftly retconned it and attached her to a different man as his doting girlfriend.
But look at the past decade. Despite well-cited problems, there has been some progress. She's been fully restored as Magneto's daughter, which took decades to happen. She's had a lot of video game appearances, and most of them are actually good! She broke out on Gifted, and won the X-Men fan vote, because people as a whole are recognizing her worth. The old white men in charge of comics don't want to admit her worth, because admitting it cuts directly against all their old white man assumptions and priorities, but the truth is the truth no matter how much they deny it.
When I say change takes time. I mean it. It takes time. But it's worth it, and passes faster than you think.
In the past, I've pointed out how Len Wein viewed Batgirl with Killing Joke, and Dick Giordano's attitude toward Supergirl's worth when he had her killed off. Batgirl and Supergirl are important, highly visible female representation in comics, and most people wouldn't dispute that today. But in the 80s, old white men (Len Wein was in his 40s, Dick Giordano in his 50s) working in comics felt these characters were worthless for anything other than how they can promote the stories of male characters. Jump to today, and you might not even realize just how toxic and negative the attitude toward these two was back in the 80s. It took roughly 30 years for Barbara Gordon to come back as Batgirl with her own solo ongoing, and for Supergirl to get her own TV show that ended up lasting for 6 seasons, with gradual positive change over that time for each to get there.
This is where Lorna is right now. Fan impact on the comics themselves is limited when they're in the hands of old white men who refuse to change for the better.
BUT, fans still have power of their own. Fans have already brought about big changes this past decade by spreading awareness of her and creating meaningful fan work. Lorna still being Magneto's daughter, interacting with Wanda, breaking out on Gifted, winning the X-Men fan vote, and NOT being relegated to "Havok's cheerleader girlfriend" are all a direct result of fans showing their interest and support. There's still plenty of work to do, and very clearly some HUGE beats that old white men don't want acknowledged (presently Lorna reacting to her father's death, and Lorna having any history with Genosha). Sadly, it's going to take time before Lorna will get her real due. But THAT is not a lost cause. I've said that I think Jordan White is, but he's not going to be around forever, just like Dick Giordano and Len Wein. Ultimately, it's his choice if he wants to be remembered as a force that held Lorna back or as one that helped her reach her true potential. But his choice isn't going to change the future. It's just going to affect how long it takes for the future to arrive, and how people look back on his work.
I wouldn't be commissioning the Ghosts of Genosha minicomic if there was no hope for Lorna. As long as fandom keeps supporting Lorna, keeps speaking to their interests and making work that features her, the future has a chance to arrive sooner rather than later.
That's my positive, uplifting message. You are what brings any real hope for Lorna's future. Step up and keep up despite any obstacles if you want to see good things come for her some day.
I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.
Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.
Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!
Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)
No, it isn't a lost cause. The character has had to start to overcome entrenched views on her worth. On some level while her Genosha history wasn't recognized it provided some food for thought. There was one other thing I liked Lorna related and that was including her in a green outfit even if its far from my favorite of her classic influenced numbers and wish they gave it an upgrade. It was a smarter choice than her showing up in sunglasses and mini skirt.
Anyway art.
Link
Last edited by jmc247; 03-23-2023 at 05:46 AM.
You left this cryptic enough that I have no idea what part of my post you're referring to.
If you mean better handling of diversity, I don't see how that would be a problem. I assume other diverse characters would get more than Lorna, but also that she would still be treated better than she has been.
If you mean younger people having more control, and less for old white men, I think newer and younger creatives are in general more open-minded to both other possibilities and listening when fans point out issues. Age brings with it a feeling that "I'm older and have more experience so I'm right and everyone else is wrong," whereas someone younger has better odds of looking at things they missed and adjusting to be more respectful and considerate. Of course, that's not true of every single person, but it's generally accurate.
If you mean Jordan White not controlling things, I don't see how him being out would be a bad thing. It's pretty clear he's the main cause of Lorna being held back.
If you mean fans having an impact on treatment of Lorna, what I said about younger people having more control applies here too. Generally speaking, if fans are aware of the important beats, they'll respect and integrate those beats too. That's why we've seen more fans talking about how bad it is that Lorna's history with Genosha and connection with her father post-Magneto death are being ignored. Most fandom that I've seen trying to push for better for Lorna with things that really matter to her is actually on the younger side. In their teens and 20s.
If you meant anything else, you'll have to clarify.
I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.
Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.
Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!
Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)
Lets assume for a minute that editorial didn't take her off the X-Men just as huge events impact the character and her story. Lets imagine it was Duggan who has a two or three act story with her and X-Men and his six months or so of X-Men issues writing her was just the first act. Lets also imagine its Duggan that wants to save up the surprise factor for the next stage of his story, so she is yattering like a internet meme about shopping and coffee after the biggest events to befall the character in two decades due to the desire to avoid showing their cards.
I have avoided casting blame for her current situation because frankly I don't know what is going on behind the scenes. It is entirely possible for instance Orlando couldn't bring up Magneto's death in Scarlet Witch because Duggan will be dealing with that story. It might not even be editorial that didn't want the issues touched. If its the case that everything related to Judgement Day was simply put on ice for Lorna for a year to avoid showing their hand for a big story as it very well might be its an interesting decision though one that undermined the issues she has been in since then. She has been to myself coming off out of sorts and like a meme, but I have been averse to blaming editorial or even the writers like Orlando for it without knowing more.
I have said that fans should buy Scarlet Witch #3 and Marauders #12 and I stand by that assertion. Orlando did not what I would call a great, but a competent job in each issue even though I was hoping for a fair bit more from Lorna. Though if that suspicion is right its not Orlando nor even editorial who is preventing Lorna's story from moving forward. It also means it could move forward explosively in the Spring or Summer.
I will be the first to admit though it looks horrible Storm dealing with Magneto's death, Wanda and Storm talking about his death, and I could go on and on while Lorna is fixated on her caffeine fix and shopping.
Last edited by jmc247; 03-23-2023 at 10:19 AM.
Yes. I was cryptic. I’ll clarify.
I was referring to what I have bolder in your second paragraph above. I don’t see that bringing in younger writers would be a guarantee that Lorna would be treated better in the comics. In fact, I think it could actually be detrimental, with the reason being that she hasn’t been written well in so long, younger writers may not even know her well enough to be interested in taking her on. Instead of superficial appearances, she may just fade away completely like other formerly popular mutants have over the years.
Maybe that’s not worse than superficial appearances though. And maybe (probably) it’s either the risk to change because the upside is worth it. But when I read your original point? I just immediately thought of that old expression “be careful what you wish for…”.
“Generally, one knows me before hating me” -Quicksilver
I have long felt she could work as cameo queen if they allowed her to represent a more complicated worldview then generic composite heroine they have by in large tried forcing down our threats since Decimation. Magneto has successfully gone through long periods where he had no ongoing book, but appeared all over the place as both ally and antagonist to the X-Men and was allowed a clear point of view. The refusal to treat Genosha as a major part of Lorna's history instead of a nearly invisible part to ignore has been a central part of this.
Austen succeeded in Lorna being an ally of the X-Men while having a very different worldview then Xavier and one very well might not agree with the worldview but it worked in setting her apart in a way the coffee cup and shopping is failing to do right now. A caffeine addiction is not a substitute for having a point of view on things that matter.
Ultimately the ad for this upcoming X-Men board game is key to Lorna's problem and the solution to it.
There is a huge cast of popular X-Men heroines who Lorna is not going to successfully compete with all over the game. There is a large cast of antagonists, but ones who if Lorna was included among them, she could easily be allowed to surpass. Colossus is included as an Acolyte and an X-Men in the game. Magneto has tons of cards as a protagonist and antagonist. Lorna is only included as one lonely X-Factor card.
Marvel has no problem with characters being protagonists and antagonists at the same time and Lorna's father is their greatest example of that. Yet they have wanted Lorna to be a generic heroine. That could have worked if Claremont gave a fig about her, but he didn't so she will never truly compete with Storm, or Kitty, or a dozen other characters in the same way. Wanting it to be so doesn't make it so. That doesn't mean she can't and shouldn't be as popular or more popular than them, but the character needs a whole different framework then generic heroine.
My view is very simple Lorna should be at her core opposed to the Xavier vision yet willing to work with his acolytes when their interests coincide. The refusal to let her be such a character (Fall of X will tell the story if that continues) with a few notable exceptions is completely and 100% her problem. If Fall of X doesn't take a big risk with her I think she is doomed to waiting for the MCU to save her as X-Men 97 won't. It will just further pigeonhole her as the C list other Summers brother girlfriend or C list Magneto's lesser daughter if she appears at all.
Why? Because X-Men 97 doesn't need another X-Men on the team. They don't even really need another reserve X-ally. Magneto on X-Men 97 will make a far better X-Man on the team then Lorna would because he has a complicated story and is allowed to be complex.
Writers won't give Lorna a voice on issues that matter until they firmly put her outside the Xavierist camp in terms of viewpoint. Marvel designated C list X-Men allies don't get voices on issues that matter even when its highly relevant. Heroines of Lorna's perceived list are ciphers and memes as Lorna alternated between for years. A or B list antagonists are a very different story. They often do get voices.
Last edited by jmc247; 03-24-2023 at 09:40 AM.
What writer/artist combo would you all trust to do a Giant Size X-Men: Polaris?
I think Al Ewing would do a great job at bringing in all her continuity and give her a nice little wrap up on the Genosha trauma. (well not wrap up but you know what I mean)
Artists: Duaterman or Larraz
Although after that Chuck Austen podcast I now remember I did like certain parts of his take on her. Especially when it came to Genosha and human/mutant relations.
fan art x-men krakoa art by Bruno_ABD
https://twitter.com/Bruno_ABD/status...16639341592586