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  1. #31
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    September of this year will mark the 30th anniversary of...
    Polaris/Lorna Dane's...



    SEMINAL MOMENT:



    advocating for equal rights,
    from... 3 DECADES AGO!!!

  2. #32
    X-Men fan since '92 Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Happy New Year to Polaris and her irresistible fans. I love, love, LOVED Lorna's appearance in X-Factor, it sucks that book didn't last longer. Then she got short tenure on the X-Men, really wish she got to be on the current roster and I hope she gets voted back in when the next election occurs.
    "Kids don't care **** about superhero comic books. And if they do, they probably start with manga, with One Punch-Man or My Hero Academia. " -ImOctavius.

  3. #33

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    It's done. Calling out the root cause of the problem for Lorna in X-Men comics.

    Posted to my Tumblr. Linked on my Twitter. Not directly sharing or delving into details here. If you want to see, check those places.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolarIceFire View Post

    advocating for equal rights,
    from... 3 DECADES AGO!!!
    JM DeMatteis made clear in interviews he read her early stuff.



    I mean real early 60s stuff when she was a middle ground character between the X-Men and Magneto and clearly integrated some of that into his depiction.



    The energy hair stuff started there and continued on and off. On Genosha she had it and it reappeared the last Hellfire Gala as well.



    It was her most underrated 90s run, but where it failed was she was lacking a motivation. He tried to give her that with the government wanting to use her as a weapon against Magneto, but it wasn’t enough.

    I don’t think anything really worked until Genosha as a motivational core, but obviously they don’t want to keep that in the background even though it shot any understanding of what motivates her mutant rights views out at the knees. They could have successfully had new motivational stuff if they built it upon the old stuff instead of trying to write over it.

  5. #35
    Spectacular Member Hekabolos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I mean real early 60s stuff when she was a middle ground character between the X-Men and Magneto and clearly integrated some of that into his depiction.



    It was her most underrated 90s run, but where it failed was she was lacking a motivation. He tried to give her that with the government wanting to use her as a weapon against Magneto, but it wasn’t enough.

    I don’t think anything really worked until Genosha as a motivational core, but obviously they don’t want to keep that in the background even though it shot any understanding of what motivates her mutant rights views out at the knees. They could have successfully had new motivational stuff if they built it upon the old stuff instead of trying to write over it.
    I LOVED this era for Lorna but agree that after nearly a decade under Malice's control, and neglect under Claremont, they didn't know who she was or what to do with her anymore.

    As a side note to that: it has always surprised me that Claremont, who loves a strong and opinionated woman, never seemed to have any interest in Lorna. Has he ever shared his thoughts on the character?

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hekabolos View Post
    I LOVED this era for Lorna but agree that after nearly a decade under Malice's control, and neglect under Claremont, they didn't know who she was or what to do with her anymore.

    As a side note to that: it has always surprised me that Claremont, who loves a strong and opinionated woman, never seemed to have any interest in Lorna. Has he ever shared his thoughts on the character?
    Claremont noticed something that basically two different Lorna’s showed up in her first appearance. A very ordinary ‘grounded’ young woman focused on guys and M2 Queen of Mutants fighting the X-Men and trying to help build a mutant world order.

    He went for the same idea of two Lorna’s only he divided Lorna into one ordinary boyfriend focused version and the other possessed/mind controlled. The problem is that created the dichotomy that real Lorna is a weak girlfriendy character and strong militant Lorna is ‘Polaris’ or ‘Malice’ which amounted to someone else pulling Lorna’s strings.

    That was a bad call to put it mildly. The two sides of Lorna should be one and the same. Who is Lorna and what does she believe? I don’t know at this point. The Krakoa era could easily have explained it, but you can't do that without dealing with her feelings about a mass genocide on another island.

    Williams screwed up enormously and she knows she did as of a podcast I listened to last year in attempting to write over the Genoshan genocide so she could own her history. But, this mistake falls on editorial who very much knew the view of Polaris fans and only had to tell her to respect it in her writing. Instead we had an absolute dog **** depiction of Lorna because the writer wasn't told she is building on what other writers did.

    Lorna and Magneto were horribly undermined the same way. There are ways their relationship is toxic normally with him doing things for her or treating her like a general or adviser, but not treating her like a wayward 15-year-old, rather than start where they were and try to fashion a bad dad story around their previous relationship, she decided to remake the relationship from the ground up. That mess is ultimately on editorial.
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-10-2023 at 11:41 AM.

  7. #37
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    For the record:
    Quote Originally Posted by PolarIceFire View Post
    X-Men Election Results | New Team Member Revealed!, @GreatXmenTations
    Marvel revealed the result of the X-Men election via shot-form comic strips, and the Mistress of Magnetism Polaris will be (re)joining the X-Ranks!...

    Odds were heavily favored toward Polaris winning, and lo, the final results didn’t disappoint. ...


    Setting aside comics, merch, & even games, the following had...
    these appearances
    in animation and/or live action to their favor:

    1. Polaris - 'The Gifted', WatXM, & TAS
    2. Banshee - 'First Class' & TAS
    3. Sunspot - 'New Mutants' & Evo
    4. Forge - TAS & Evo
    5. Armor - Anime
    6. Boom-Boom - Evo & WatXM
    7. Tempo
    8. Marrow - WatXM
    9. Cannonball - 'New Mutants', Evo, & TAS
    10. Strong Guy - TAS

    Arguably, some not so unequal footing can be seen, I think. Also, JDW mistakenly stated at least once -- maybe twice -- that Polaris was the character who had the earliest debut, which isn't true. That honor would go to her runner-up, Banshee. *Of note,* I'm *not sure if* these were the *final results.*

    https://twitter.com/marvel/status/1481385848461484034
    Dispatch from Krakoa, the latest on the #XMenVote!
    Only one day left to cast your ballot...


    1. Firestar - SMaHAF & WatXM
    2. Armor - Anime
    3. Penance
    4. Surge
    5. Gentle
    6. Gorgon
    7. Siryn - 'X2: United'
    8. Avalanche - Evo & TAS
    9. Bling!
    10. Micromax

    *No comments.* ...
    And REFERENCE, in descending, chronological order, of their 1st appearances:

    • Banshee - Jan. 1967, X-Men #28
    • Polaris - Oct. 1968, X-Men #49
    • Cannonball - Nov. 1982, Marvel Graphic Novel #4: The New Mutants
    • Sunspot - Nov. 1982, Marvel Graphic Novel #4: The New Mutants
    • Forge - Aug. 1984, The Uncanny X-Men #184
    • Strong Guy - Jul. 1985, The New Mutants #29
    • Boom-Boom - Nov. 1985, Secret Wars II #5
    • Tempo - Feb. 1990, New Mutants #86
    • Marrow - Sept. 1994, Cable #15
    • Armor - Oct. 2004, Astonishing X-Men (vol. 3) #4


    Just in case... it's ever needed, or wanted.

  8. #38

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    A little bit of atypical Magnus family fandom!



    This wallet art was made by Arte_perenquen, and clearly based off this Lorna and Wanda fanart I commissioned from soap-committee!



    I had commissioned that fanart shortly before All-New X-Factor #14, because I had been annoyed that Marvel wasn't promoting the issue at all. Though in retrospect I'm sure the editor of ANXF at that time (until he abandoned the book post-#14 after having killed it) played no small part in that. The decision for the fanart here using the Serval costume was purely to help draw more attention to ANXF #14, otherwise I would've just gone with Lorna's iconic look all the way.

    Thanks to jmc for drawing my attention to it!
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  9. #39

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    The error of ANXF that hurt the book and degraded it in terms of Lorna's story was idea of creating tension on the basis of Lorna being a horrible leader and conveniently unstable when the plot called for it.

    The far wiser course would have been Lorna having a different POV/worldview then her team not because she can't control her emotions like Gambit can. The most successful part of Austen's run, Alan Davis' run, and JM DeMatteis' 90s run with her was she did have a different worldview then the X-Men and wasn't afraid to articulate it. Other than one issue of Hickman's run in the founding of House of X there has only been the most subtle hints she has had a different worldview or philosophy then the mainstream X-Men.

    Magneto goes thought activist or militant eras and reform eras so do many other characters including a number of X-Men mainstays. Writers including Bunn have no problem for instance bringing up Colossus time as an Acolyte. Their reluctance to go that route with Lorna has long struck me as stark raving nuts. Lorna doesn't have credibility on mutant issues because who her father is. She has it or had it because of her history and not just with Xavier approved teams.

    Which gets me to one final point. I felt the Krakoa concept was a strong one under Hickman in part because it had its controversial features that fans could debate. The real failure of it the past year has been the end of those features along with a complete lack of ideological diversity. It's good to have features of the status quo fans can debate even if some fans hate the idea. The concept was purged its complex features and its darker themes.

    Just as Lorna was purged of any features one can debate about the character and why she conveniently disappears when Magneto dies in a mass genocide. I am not a fan of Lorna's story these days.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    The error of ANXF that hurt the book and degraded it in terms of Lorna's story was idea of creating tension on the basis of Lorna being a horrible leader and conveniently unstable when the plot called for it.

    The far wiser course would have been Lorna having a different POV/worldview then her team not because she can't control her emotions like Gambit can. The most successful part of Austen's run, Alan Davis' run, and JM DeMatteis' 90s run with her was she did have a different worldview then the X-Men and wasn't afraid to articulate it. Other than one issue of Hickman's run in the founding of House of X there has only been the most subtle hints she has had a different worldview or philosophy then the mainstream X-Men.

    Magneto goes thought activist or militant eras and reform eras so do many other characters including a number of X-Men mainstays. Writers including Bunn have no problem for instance bringing up Colossus time as an Acolyte. Their reluctance to go that route with Lorna has long struck me as stark raving nuts. Lorna doesn't have credibility on mutant issues because who her father is. She has it or had it because of her history and not just with Xavier approved teams.

    Which gets me to one final point. I felt the Krakoa concept was a strong one under Hickman in part because it had its controversial features that fans could debate. The real failure of it the past year has been the end of those features along with a complete lack of ideological diversity. It's good to have features of the status quo fans can debate even if some fans hate the idea. The concept was purged its complex features and its darker themes.

    Just as Lorna was purged of any features one can debate about the character and why she conveniently disappears when Magneto dies in a mass genocide. I am not a fan of Lorna's story these days.
    These points also touch on how Austen handled mental health for Lorna well, compared to how All-New X-Factor was insulting with it.

    When Austen wrote Lorna, she had PTSD from Genosha that led to her acting and willing to act much more violent and confrontational. But Austen centered her behavior in presentation that was very sympathetic, and typically very rational from her POV. Wanting to kill Nurse Annie when Havok left her at the altar was extreme, yes, but it was the latest in a long line of horrible things happening to her and the writing made it clear it was her final straw. Her argument with Xavier was influenced by her trauma and associated feelings, but they weren't presented as irrational in the slightest. Austen's Lorna, you could easily see her being a leader (and a damn good one at that) while dealing with PTSD.

    By contrast, ANXF had Lorna ready to kill a cat just cause it scratched, had Gambit painting Lorna as unhinged and eager to kill Danger just for not agreeing with her, etc. The picture it painted of Lorna was, essentially, "lol she's too cray cray to be a leader, making her one was a mistake."

    People usually blame the writer for these things. But in reality, even if it was the writer's decision, an actual good editor that cares about their work and doing the right thing by it would push back and demand better.

    Instead, ANXF had Jordan D. White as editor. That is, until ANXF #14. That was his last issue, and also the issue when Marvel announced they were cancelling the book. At which point, starting with ANXF #15, the book was handed off to a different editor to wrap it up.


    Guess who's been fully running the plans for X-Men's comics for the past year, since Hickman left as Head of X to work on other comics?
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    The crumbs are nice, but I'm hoping that this year brings some bigger things for Lorna. Still ever thankful for Duggan's X-Men and what we get early last year for Polaris.

    Also, disappointed that when Lorna finally looks like she's gonna get laid, its an illusion. Fingers crossed it happens eventually for our girl.

  12. #42
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    I really hope 2023 finally gives Polaris a sustainable status quo that keeps her perpetually in the minds of writers and readers. I’m glad her brand is no longer “X-Factor”, the side book that in my opinion she doesn’t fit when it’s an investigation/detective book, and she’s now with “X-Men”. I hope that continues and she is seen by writers and readers to be a character like Iceman, Rogue etc meaning when they are creating a main team of “X-Men” Polaris is on the team or strongly considered. I don’t think that’s the case yet.

    Let’s hope 2023 keeps pushing Polaris forward!
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 01-13-2023 at 09:23 AM.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    I really hope 2023 finally gives Polaris a sustainable status quo that keeps her perpetually in the minds of writers and readers. I’m glad her brand is no longer “X-Factor”, the side book that in my opinion she doesn’t fit when it’s an investigation/detective book, and she’s now with “X-Men”. I hope that continues and she is seen by writers and readers to be a character like Iceman, Rogue etc meaning when they are creating a main team of “X-Men” Polaris is on the team or strongly considered. I don’t think that’s the case yet.

    Let’s hope 2023 keeps pushing Polaris forward!
    The biggest thing to keep in mind is at least X-Men writers might very well be interested in doing good work with Lorna, but ultimately they have to go by the whims of who they work for.

    Duggan did good with Lorna's personality and power use when writing her, but she ended up only in half the run, with nothing of actual substance from her character history coming up. Not even for the issue that was supposed to be focused on her. She also didn't have any main covers that focused on Lorna, not even for the issue focused on her. There were only two Lorna-focused variant covers: the Cassara variant for issue #1, and the Peach Momoko variant that you literally had to pay a $100 annual subscription for Marvel Unlimited to get.

    Meanwhile, last year's Hellfire Gala winner, Firestar, has received a lot more focus including an X-Men Annual dedicated to her that also focused on her for its cover.

    Only editorial and higher positions have the power to influence both story and art decisions like this.

    This is why I usually don't blame Leah Williams when complaining about how poorly Lorna was handled on the most recent X-Factor. Even if they were 100% her writing choices, the reality is that the same problems in treatment of Lorna have persisted and as an overall trend have gotten worse over time across multiple writers since 2018. And when there are problems with a character's depiction, that's when an editor or above is supposed to step in to help the writer get on track. Which means in the kindest of takes, editorial hasn't been doing their job. But based on what I've seen to date, all signs point to editorial demanding this poor treatment. Now, whether or not editorial thinks it's poor treatment is another matter, but the effect is still the same regardless.

    Again, this does not mean fans should give up hope by any means. Editors change. If an editor refuses to do the right thing, it's still possible for a future editor (or people in other media) to make up for it. Just look at Supergirl and Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Supergirl was killed off in the 80s because a DC editor thought she "didn't add anything to the Superman mythos," and Batgirl was paralyzed to build up male characters' stories because the editor for Killing Joke likewise had no respect for her. Cut to decades later. Time fixes mistakes as long as they're recognized as such.
    Last edited by salarta; 01-13-2023 at 10:54 AM.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  14. #44

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    The issue of Lorna and what she believes is never more pertinent after Magneto's death in Judgement Day. Publishing doesn't want to deal with any of that hence her convenient disappearance off the face of the Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    The crumbs are nice, but I'm hoping that this year brings some bigger things for Lorna. Still ever thankful for Duggan's X-Men and what we get early last year for Polaris.

    Also, disappointed that when Lorna finally looks like she's gonna get laid, its an illusion. Fingers crossed it happens eventually for our girl.
    Duggan called the X-Men a 'violent soap opera' and that designation is by in large correct. As such there is really only two ways for a character editorial doesn't designate a core part of the franchise to move forward.

    1. Foil to the core team or full antagonist.

    2. Love interest to a character that actually matters.

    Austen's run for #1 was more foil to the X-Men then full antagonist. No creative team has decided to follow him on that or at least make her be a foil about her being philosophically different which is where the money is not conveniently unstable which is bad.

    Love interest is #2 and for decades she was stuck in a dead end relationships with a Summers brother. This seems to be where editorial is headed with her focused on romance this past Summer and now Winter and ignoring her own father's death in a genocide no less which was a really terrible call and that must be laid fully on editorials desk.

    There is a significant chance they go for Scott and Lorna in order to squeeze drama between Havok and his brother. I feel right now any Lorna and Scott relationship would be designed to fail and just spice up Havolaris. A Lorna on a mission whose history is respected? Yah. That under that circumstances a Lorna/Scott relationship could work.

    But, that isn't the Lorna that exists right now in the comics. Lorna in the comics right now isn't allowed to respond to her own father's death in a serious way nor remember she is a genocide survivor.

    Actually, there is a third way to get a push and that is being extremely popular due to the MCU like Wanda is right now or due to the comics like Laura is right now. Laura deserves her current mini, though unlike Lorna they don't shy away from dealing with legacy issues with her more popular father.
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-17-2023 at 08:02 AM.

  15. #45
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    Default On Any Given Day, THIS COULD BE ME, 1 of three!



    ALWAYS tryin' to reach & stay in that ZEN place...

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