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  1. #496

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    This is very cool! Nice job Salarta! The comments are annoying and why I really like when Lorna’s suit doesn’t have a cape and her headpiece isn’t horned like Wanda’s. That aside, the reflection on Genosha from Lorna is great! What would you do next with Polaris after your comic? If Marvel did something similar to your mini comic with a few similar panels in a X book, what would you want next for Polaris after making her declaration about Genosha?
    I hadn't noticed the comments until you mentioned them.

    Any time someone says something like "Polaris is just a female Magneto" or "Polaris is just a palette swap of Scarlet Witch," what that tells me is Marvel hasn't done anywhere near enough with Lorna. It's not much different from people who used to say things like "Supergirl is just a female Superman" or "Captain Marvel (DC) is just a Superman knockoff." Those attitudes only exist when the unique worth of a character hasn't been sufficiently acknowledged and respected. As annoying as such comments are, they're concrete evidence that the X-Men comics office hasn't done enough for her, contrary to what some people out there might think.

    I didn't have anything specific in mind as a next thing to do with Lorna after this comic. Since these are commissions out of my own pocket, I treat them as one and dones and don't think about where the narrative would go next. If I were writing a narrative progression, like a miniseries or solo or something like that, I would probably have Lorna do something against Red Skull and/or Cassandra Nova. Lorna was excluded from Axis, so her going after Red Skull for violating the Genoshan dead like that is appropriate for her. She also hasn't had a chance to confront Cassandra Nova, so she should really have a chance to do that.

    Part of the problem for Lorna's story has been writers treating her like she's exclusively reactive, that she's an object to be acted upon and have things done to her, not a fully realized character with thoughts and feelings who can proactively do things. I don't think it would be out of her wheelhouse at all to establish control and agency by going after people who have committed horrible wrongs instead of waiting to have wrongs done to her.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  2. #497

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Okay, the Polaris minicomic is complete. You get a two-fer! First the cover, followed by the final page.





    Here's the link if you want to read the whole thing from start to finish.

    From lurkers who are just seeing this, if you want background to this minicomic, then read New X-Men 132, Uncanny X-Men 431, and Uncanny X-Men 443. Those issues give you the best understanding behind the weight of what's happening here (which is a topic the X-Men comics office keeps refusing to acknowledge while having Lorna acting incredibly OOC).
    That is really good. It also something that Marvel has absolutely refused to do for many years. Acknowledge her greatest story arc and most powerful emotional moments in a way to help the audience understand the character. Frankly its not just about the audience. Its also about those thinking about writing her that badly need to think about Lorna's most powerful storyline and no that isn't her bazillion crap mind control stories or fighting with her ex/dad.

    There are endless doors that could open for the character if they respect her Genoshan history and wrote alongside it instead of over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ
    This is very cool! Nice job Salarta! The comments are annoying and why I really like when Lorna’s suit doesn’t have a cape and her headpiece isn’t horned like Wanda’s. That aside, the reflection on Genosha from Lorna is great! What would you do next with Polaris after your comic? If Marvel did something similar to your mini comic with a few similar panels in a X book, what would you want next for Polaris after making her declaration about Genosha?
    Among her green costumes Lorna's classic costume or last Genosha outfit managed to say sisters with Wanda without making her look like a color swapped version of Wanda.
    Last edited by jmc247; 05-28-2023 at 07:27 AM.

  3. #498

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    As expected, nothing about Polaris or things connected to her in the X-Men Monday. Whether that's due to Chris Hassan not using any of it or Jordan White deciding he didn't want to answer it still ultimately falls on White, since Hassan choosing not to ask it would be due to knowing White wouldn't want to.

    I've decided I'm going to say a few things now, instead of holding into them for another month or two.

    I was informed of an article on screenrant about the Marauders issue where Kate Pryde gets to benefit most from the Genosha stuff. Two things stood out to me. Why is the article capitalizing the word Ghosts? And why are they making this article two whole ass months after the issue they're talking about was published?

    That's when I started to put two and two together. This story was conceived in a manner that allowed Kate Pryde to benefit most from Genosha, where the loss of her father is treated as infinitely more important when "wrapping up" Genosha than the experience of an actual survivor of the genocide who experienced it firsthand. The story was constructed in such a way that they bent over backwards to act like Lorna has no history with the island when she's there, because to acknowledge her history would mean overshadowing what they've decided is their most important objective of fawning over Kate Pryde.

    To be clear to Kate Pryde fans, I have no problem whatsoever with her getting a spotlight. I don't have a problem with her leading her own team book, or having the loss of her father and its impact on her acknowledged and explored. I don't even necessarily have an issue with her leading the action taken in those issues. I think Lorna would've been more appropriate, but this isn't the only way Lorna's history with all this can be acknowledged and respected. What I do have a problem with, though, is how the X-Men comics office is so unwilling to show even the most minimal of respect toward Polaris as a character to the point where she's clearly only here cause they think having her show up for a couple panels and whine about lack of coffee is enough involvement for her.

    But here's the two and two together part of it.

    I've been told by others that Kate Pryde is Jordan White's favorite X-Men character. Jordan White also knows how important Lorna's experience on Genosha and surviving the genocide are to the character. I know that second part for a fact because I told him myself back in 2018.

    If Kate Pryde being his favorite character is true, then that means Kate getting to be the focus of the Marauders "wrap-up" of Genosha all while Lorna is treated like she's worthless to the story of something she survived all comes down to White's bias controlling the story. Exactly how he's controlling it doesn't matter. He could be forcing this by editorial mandate. Or the writers could be pitching this way to please him. Both reasons boil down to Jordan White being the direct cause of the X-Men comics office being this horrendously disrespectful to this aspect of the character and what it means to fans that resonate with it.

    That wraps up my post for now.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  4. #499

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    There were a ton of good directions and even a few great directions that Lorna's story could have gone in the Krakoa era if they did the bare minimum of remembering this was Lorna's second mutant homeland as well as the fate of the first.

    Ultimately, they decided to pull a toxic dad plotline out of their asses that in no way fit either Magneto or Lorna's direction as characters. They realized that they had an actually good plotline to be had in dealing with Magneto's legacy post Judgement Day and they handed that story to characters they actually give a fig about

    Even a fan on their off time and a few dollars to throw around has shown how Lorna's history and relationship with Magneto can be tied together in a way that benefits both Lorna and Magneto. Austen certainly showed it as well. Ultimately half the problem is accepting Lorna doesn't work as a straight heroine and functions best as a complicated character like her father dealing with similar issues in a different more modern way.

    Chris Claremont changed the historical analogy of Magneto from Hitler to Menachem Begin. No, he didn't try to turn him into Malcolm X. Begin wanted to and did create a state for the Jews and was willing to do so by all means necessary. He was a terrorist and also one of Israel's founding fathers.

    Finding the right analogy for Lorna would do the x-books a great deal of good. Frankly Kitty Pryde is a good analogy for the modern American Jewish young woman. Lorna is not a good analogy for that. I think she works much better as an analogy for the modern 'Israeli' young woman.

    On a lot of issues, the two are very similar. Not when it comes to security and how to interrelate to those they view as a threat. In that area they act by all means necessary to advance the interests of their state. The Begin Doctrine is still very much accepted by young Israelis and its best described as if someone wants to kill you and is planning to do so, kill them first. It's a doctrine and way of thinking that more than a few American Jews consider in itself an evil.
    Last edited by jmc247; 05-31-2023 at 09:04 AM.

  5. #500
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    It's a disappointing that Williams did so much damage to the relationship between Lorna and her father. Leah really didn't understand the history, or dynamics of what came before, and it definitely showed. I hope the angle X-Factor/ToM displayed doesn't prevent other writers from seeing that Polaris has always had a stronger rapport with Magneto, and they've worked well together in the past.

    Yes, they've had issues, and Max isn't always the best father, but that shouldn't negate the good.

  6. #501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    It's a disappointing that Williams did so much damage to the relationship between Lorna and her father. Leah really didn't understand the history, or dynamics of what came before, and it definitely showed. I hope the angle X-Factor/ToM displayed doesn't prevent other writers from seeing that Polaris has always had a stronger rapport with Magneto, and they've worked well together in the past.

    Yes, they've had issues, and Max isn't always the best father, but that shouldn't negate the good.
    Williams textually wanted to fully own her relationships and character history. In the end of the day in this area I have to agree with Salarta the fault ultimately falls on editorial for not putting their foot down and advising this character is a rental property not an ownership venture. Williams in her last podcast on X-Factor realized that we were giving her good advice all along on the topic and what she did with her would have been respected even if it wasn't always liked by Polaris fans if she didn't ignore and try to write over her character history.

    Williams had a tendency of having ideas that on paper probably sounded good, but she didn't build on pre-existing stories and pathos, and she went so laughably extreme in the execution of her many ideas and so much refused to respect what came before for the character it completely undermined her own ideas which given even a few edits could have been good.

    Ultimately editorial decided not to find a writer to fix the damage and then to completely ignore the relationship and send her into space after his death so we nearly a year later don't know if she even knows he is dead. The blame has to at this point fall on Duggan as well, because he has been effectively her co-writer since 2021 and hasn't wanted to tackle anything of substance for her and her motivations or history. It's possible he gets to it in the Gala, but we are at the point where it's almost too late, and that was the goal of punting her into space in the first place.

    It's not like editorial doesn't know that Magneto's death should be a fairly big deal for her story. Here is a certain someone from a decade ago.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-01-2023 at 07:58 AM.

  7. #502

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    Our Favorite Jewish Superheroes and the Stories We Need to See With Them

    My favorite Jewish comic character is Polaris, who many don’t associate with having a Jewish identity being a cornerstone of who she is as a character, but her ethnically being Jewish, and not religiously Jewish is something that many people who don’t completely understand this about the Jewish people. We are an ethno-religion, which means that we don’t have to practice or even recognize any of the core tenets of the religious beliefs that’s helped shape who we are as a people in order to be considered Jewish. It was at this moment, all the way back during Chuck Austen’s run on Uncanny X-Men, that it was revealed that she was a daughter of Magnus, one of the most prominent Jews in the Marvel Universe that she became my favorite Jewish character. It’s this dichotomy of being ethnically Jewish, yet not religiously that I found my connection to Lorna. My dad’s Jewish, my mom’s not, and this yearning to be accepted by my family struck those cords deep into the core of my being.

    What is a storyline you’d like to see related to this character?

    As Magneto’s daughter, Lorna gained a whole new layer of depth that we weren’t used to seeing with her. She was now the daughter of one of the most popular mutants in the world, who was also a survivor of the Nazi’s extermination of European Jews during the Holocaust, and she was also a survivor of something that could be used and explored as an allegory with the destruction of Genosha. Unfortunately, the creators didn’t take the time to mine it for all the emotional resonance it should have been. I’d like to see Lorna take the trauma from this to discuss with her father the trauma that helped shape him into the man that the world would come to fear, as he would pledge to never let the mutants face the genocide that he lived through. It’s something that I can connect with, as my paternal grandfather would tell me the stories of what he endured under a Nazi regime Germany, as he, his father, and sister would flee to England, and later the United States, and then return as a troop during WWII. It’s something that still resonates with me nearly 40 years later.

    https://comic-watch.com/news/comment...-see-with-them
    An article on Jewish characters. I would say Austen did take the time to give Morrison's story resonance.

    Austen gave her two trauma's of his own the first being the crucifixion of mutants and the second her wedding debacle which came out 20 years ago this month. What Austen did right and other writers lately did wrong is he used Genosha as a background accelerant for his new traumas for the character rather than trying to act like his trauma ideas for her were the first time she experienced anything bad in her life.

  8. #503
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    Williams definitely ruined Polaris and Magneto’s relationship, however, really only to those who care about and like her work. Most readers aren’t fans and even those who are know how ooc Lorna and most of the characters are in her work. Having years of them being closer and Lorna shown to explicitly learn from him on Genosha, I guarantee most don’t think of them as having a “bad” relationship or none at all.

    Hopefully, we get a writer in the x office who likes Lorna. I know most here hate that she was sent to space but I don’t think the x office sent her, Kelly Thompson likes her and picked her. If she hadn’t pick her up for the brood arc in Captain Marvel, Polaris would’ve been benched again. No other X writers wanted to use her since she is not their favorite. Her current issues of Genosha and Magneto‘s death are easy to fix with a few pages. I’d love to see Magneto and Lorna connect over the destruction of Genosha and how that impacts her story. Personally, I think she would still need something long term to keep her around and used like a villain/antagonist specific to her that she can fight or a moment big enough with her powers that impacts readers and writers. Maybe her talk with Magneto makes her want to protect mutants against Sentinel machines since they caused the trauma in her life? I know it was Cassandra nova who sent the wild sentinels but she couldn’t have done it without the machines. (A machine is also an easier sell in my opinion for a villain instead of the evil clone of Xavier)
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 06-01-2023 at 02:35 PM.

  9. #504
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Not a huge fan but I am kind of bummed that her role has been diminished.

    You all just really need a writer that loves her.

  10. #505
    Spectacular Member Magnetic's Avatar
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    I used to think Polaris was about to be on the list - the fixed list of X-Men they feature at any given time in all mediums - but I no longer believe that list will ever change beyond diversity requirements that push a handful of characters in front of Polaris and graduate them from x-tra to featured player. Polaris doesn't check the right boxes.

  11. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    I used to think Polaris was about to be on the list - the fixed list of X-Men they feature at any given time in all mediums - but I no longer believe that list will ever change beyond diversity requirements that push a handful of characters in front of Polaris and graduate them from x-tra to featured player. Polaris doesn't check the right boxes.
    Unless the MCU decides to save her which I view as unlikely though not impossible that is probably true. I think the shift to a much more moderate Magneto in the past 15 years in virtually all mediums has actually hurt Lorna a heck of a lot compared to what otherwise would have happened. When Magneto is the X-Men's main adversary it provides the characters around him a much larger narrative bandwidth.

    I became convinced years ago Lorna was not going to make it to the A list as a straight heroine with a little bit of edge. Only instead much like her father as a very divided character who could fight for or against the X-Men depending on the circumstances. Frankly the failure of her story in the comics I put to not following up the idea of building her as an actual middle ground character. A little bit edgy x-woman won't do it as they are a dime a dozen.

    If the MCU saves her she will probably be a darker edgier character then MCU Wanda though similar in a few ways.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-01-2023 at 09:09 PM.

  12. #507

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    It's a disappointing that Williams did so much damage to the relationship between Lorna and her father. Leah really didn't understand the history, or dynamics of what came before, and it definitely showed. I hope the angle X-Factor/ToM displayed doesn't prevent other writers from seeing that Polaris has always had a stronger rapport with Magneto, and they've worked well together in the past.

    Yes, they've had issues, and Max isn't always the best father, but that shouldn't negate the good.
    There are a few things I criticize Williams for, but that's not one of them.

    Each poor depiction of Lorna and Magneto's relationship occurred in major events where you would expect editorial to be even more eagle-eyed about if something was appropriate. These poor depictions came a year before Ewing turned Storm into Magneto's daughter in all but name with his death. Jordan White likes to crow loud and often about how he knows of upcoming X-Men comic events decades in advance (okay, hyperbole, but you get the point). Put together the sequence of events, and what that tells me is Lorna's poor treatment with Magneto in Williams' work was due to editorial mandate. Force a half-assed split between the two to justify having Storm get to cover Magneto's legacy and talk about his death while pretending Lorna doesn't know or care that her own father died.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    An article on Jewish characters. I would say Austen did take the time to give Morrison's story resonance.

    Austen gave her two trauma's of his own the first being the crucifixion of mutants and the second her wedding debacle which came out 20 years ago this month. What Austen did right and other writers lately did wrong is he used Genosha as a background accelerant for his new traumas for the character rather than trying to act like his trauma ideas for her were the first time she experienced anything bad in her life.
    I'm really glad any time fans share how much Lorna and her character history means to them in this way. In spite of Jordan White not wanting to be a respectful and empathetic professional about this, we as fans can still get across to other fans how much all of this is supposed to mean and get the word out in a way that effects positive change where it's actually possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    I used to think Polaris was about to be on the list - the fixed list of X-Men they feature at any given time in all mediums - but I no longer believe that list will ever change beyond diversity requirements that push a handful of characters in front of Polaris and graduate them from x-tra to featured player. Polaris doesn't check the right boxes.
    She's supposed to be on that list, but too many people in the X-Men comics office aren't professional enough. It's still possible for the list to change, but it'll still take time and work, mainly on the fandom side at this point because White won't change and the writers won't push him to change. It's not a matter of whether she checks the right boxes, it's a matter of whether the X-Men comics have professionals at the helm. Can't expect quality when you don't have people in place that care about it.


    To sum, I don't agree at all with the talk claiming Lorna doesn't have a writer in the X-Men comics office interested in writing her. I sincerely think there are writers who would want to do right by her, but they can't because of Jordan White.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  13. #508
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Unless the MCU decides to save her which I view as unlikely though not impossible that is probably true. I think the shift to a much more moderate Magneto in the past 15 years in virtually all mediums has actually hurt Lorna a heck of a lot compared to what otherwise would have happened. When Magneto is the X-Men's main adversary it provides the characters around him a much larger narrative bandwidth.

    I became convinced years ago Lorna was not going to make it to the A list as a straight heroine with a little bit of edge. Only instead much like her father as a very divided character who could fight for or against the X-Men depending on the circumstances. Frankly the failure of her story in the comics I put to not following up the idea of building her as an actual middle ground character. A little bit edgy x-woman won't do it as they are a dime a dozen.

    If the MCU saves her she will probably be a darker edgier character then MCU Wanda though similar in a few ways.
    Is Lorna story solely dependent on Magneto? Does she have her own lane or does her X career depend on whatever Magneto is doing? Saying without antagonist magneto, Lorna can’t stand out or really on her own at all. Magneto is dead but I don’t think that limits Lorna’s ability to be involved in the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetic View Post
    I used to think Polaris was about to be on the list - the fixed list of X-Men they feature at any given time in all mediums - but I no longer believe that list will ever change beyond diversity requirements that push a handful of characters in front of Polaris and graduate them from x-tra to featured player. Polaris doesn't check the right boxes.
    I sort of agree. I think winning the X-Men vote showed she’s popular enough among fans but she hasn’t had the “moment” that cemented her with that list of characters. She’s rarely included included in any roster whether fan made or by a writer since most aren’t sure what her purpose is. She can’t simply want to “protect mutants from harm”. Every mutant wants to do that (hyperbole but you know what I mean). She can’t start her own nation and be an antagonist like magneto since there’s been no build up to that for her. Her powers are unique and she needs to show them off more.
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 06-02-2023 at 12:57 AM.

  14. #509

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    The past year for Lorna's character has to be measured against what it should have been. With Magneto's death came the biggest storytelling opportunity for Lorna in quite awhile that editorial gave to characters they believe are far more deserving of caring about Magneto's death and dealing with his legacy issues. If Lorna isn't allowed to serious deal with things that impact her story like Genosha or her own father's death the character is screwed.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    Is Lorna story solely dependent on Magneto? Does she have her own lane or does her X career depend on whatever Magneto is doing? Saying without antagonist magneto, Lorna can’t stand out or really on her own at all. Magneto is dead but I don’t think that limits Lorna’s ability to be involved in the line.
    In a lot of mediums, it basically is. That doesn't mean it should be.

    Take X-Men 97 for example. We have two core teams of X-Men as the core cast and Magneto is the Charles Xavier stand in. What are Lorna's options for having a role on the show while that status quo holds? Pretty poor. Magneto's wards he will be pushing and pulling against will be Jean, Scott, etc. They won't be Lorna, Frenzy, Wanda, etc. I can imagine Lorna fitting into some guest star roles, but many of those we are better off avoiding as they entrench bad thinking about the character.

    What are her options if Magneto was the big counterpoint character for the X-Men? Not perfect, but far better.

    The same holds true for the MCU. If Magneto is a middle ground character working alongside and at times opposed to the X-Men her options for roles are fairly limited compared to if he is the X-films ongoing Big Bad as Thanos was for the Avengers.

    The comics are a different story where its a more artificial writing barrier that is thrown up at times. The idea that Lorna can't be more activist than the old man at a given time is frankly ludicrous on its face, but it is very much a part of entrenched thinking.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-02-2023 at 07:43 AM.

  15. #510
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    The past year for Lorna's character has to be measured against what it should have been. With Magneto's death came the biggest storytelling opportunity for Lorna in quite awhile that editorial gave to characters they believe are far more deserving of caring about Magneto's death and dealing with his legacy issues. If Lorna isn't allowed to serious deal with things that impact her story like Genosha or her own father's death the character is screwed.



    In a lot of mediums, it basically is. That doesn't mean it should be.

    Take X-Men 97 for example. We have two core teams of X-Men as the core cast and Magneto is the Charles Xavier stand in. What are Lorna's options for having a role on the show while that status quo holds? Pretty poor. Magneto's wards he will be pushing and pulling against will be Jean, Scott, etc. They won't be Lorna, Frenzy, Wanda, etc. I can imagine Lorna fitting into some guest star roles, but many of those we are better off avoiding as they entrench bad thinking about the character.

    What are her options if Magneto was the big counterpoint character for the X-Men? Not perfect, but far better.

    The same holds true for the MCU. If Magneto is a middle ground character working alongside and at times opposed to the X-Men her options for roles are fairly limited compared to if he is the X-films ongoing Big Bad as Thanos was for the Avengers.

    The comics are a different story where its a more artificial writing barrier that is thrown up at times. The idea that Lorna can't be more activist than the old man at a given time is frankly ludicrous on its face, but it is very much a part of entrenched thinking.
    It’s very unfortunate you view Lorna as a character whose options are dependent entirely on Magneto and even more so when he’s the villain. Marvel/The X office must really need to do a better job at showing her capabilities as her own character and not an extension of Magneto. I think her father can be an influence but not her only option to be included.

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