Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2023

[Mister Mets]

This.

It's not like we got anything worth value to replace pre-OMD continuity. BND and Wells' run are bad even by reboot standards.

I mean, as bad as the New 52 was, we at least got Morrison's Action Comics and Scott Snyder's Batman. Those were at least pretty good and left an impact, even though the New 52 in general was a mistake (moreso for Superman than Batman). The last 15 years of Spider-Man have nothing on par with those. No, not even Superior.

Which begs the question... If DC can admit the New 52 was a mistake in spite of it still being more successful than BND, why can't Marvel admit OMD was a mistake?

Because they think it wasn't. Why should they look at the comics and think it'd be better if they didn't change anything in 2007?

[Vortex85]

Of course it will. Even if Wells won't do that, next writer would do it, simply because nobody would like to deal with this backlash after run is over. It's not the point.
The point, that current storyline is a complete shitshow.

Sure, but this is also info for those detractors who think they can use this to convince fans that this is the "end for Peter and MJ." It's simply not true.

[Johnny]

Of course, if they gave Peter and Felicia kids too, that won't be the end of him and MJ either, but the borderline parodical writing of these current stories feels too much to bear at this point.

Speaking of that, one day MJ should be the one to try to win Peter back too, not always vice versa. Especially after all she's put him through here. I wish for once Peter was the one who gets tired of it all and tells her to go take a hike. Give the poor guy some of his damn pride back, he has every right to let off some steam.

[Vortex85]

Of course, if they gave Peter and Felicia kids too, that won't be the end of him and MJ either, but the borderline parodical writing of these current stories feels too much to bear at this point.

Speaking of that, one day MJ should be the one to try to win Peter back too, not always vice versa. Especially after all she's put him through here. I wish for once Peter was the one who gets tired of it all and tells her to go take a hike. Give the poor guy some of his damn pride back, he has every right to let off some steam.

"After all she put him through here"

You seem to foget she was trapped in a hellish apocalyptic dimension for what has felt like years trying to protect children who may or may not be hers, while Peter only suffered a couple of days, MJ suffered for years. Thinking she may never get out, never see Peter again.

You seem to not think of MJ at all and only think of Peter's feelings. MJ was in love with Peter, I don't believe for one second this was harder for Peter than for MJ with this situation. MJ got the worst of it big time.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Because they think it wasn't. Why should they look at the comics and think it'd be better if they didn't change anything in 2007?

As discussed many times in the past by fans, the last 15 years of comics and online discussions have answered this question.

[Johnny]

"After all she put him through here"

You seem to foget she was trapped in a hellish apocalyptic dimension for what has felt like years trying to protect children who may or may not be hers, while Peter only suffered a couple of days, MJ suffered for years. Thinking she may never get out, never see Peter again.

You seem to not think of MJ at all and only think of Peter's feelings. MJ was in love with Peter, I don't believe for one second this was harder for Peter than for MJ with this situation. MJ got the worst of it big time.

I was talking about how she's been treating him after he brought her and the family back from that dimension. Claiming not to care about their entire past history because "a lot longer than six months has passed", as if her loyalty to him was only ever measured by how much time she spent away from him. Doubling down on this several times since then. Snapping at him about responsibility just for asking her to talk over coffee. And again, "what Peter did" would likely be him making some comment about her "family" members during the state he's in for trying to bring her back while being sleep-deprived and then learning of the new developments right after finding her. She already for some reason looked neither happy nor relieved to see him back(look at the expression she makes right after he asks her about the kids, she straight up looks like she's ready to deck him right there), I can only imagine how she would react if he said anything remotely bad. That's why I previously said the narrative is being manipulated to absolve her of any accountability for all of this and making it all Peter's fault. And no, I'm not excusing Peter of any actual blame either, since he's been written ooc during this entire debacle as well. But to ignore that MJ has been so cold to him is wrong. I'd expect after their entire history he would mean at least a little more to her than she'd have you believe.

[Vortex85]

I was talking about how she's been treating him after he brought her and the family back from that dimension. Claiming not to care about their entire past history because "a lot longer than six months has passed", as if her loyalty to him was only ever measured by how much time she spent away from him. Doubling down on this several times since then. Snapping at him about responsibility just for asking her to talk over coffee. And again, "what Peter did" would likely be him making some comment about her "family" members during the state he's in for trying to bring her back while being sleep-deprived and then learning of the new developments right after finding her. She already for some reason looked neither happy nor relieved to see him back(look at the expression she makes right after he asks her about the kids, she straight up looks like she's ready to deck him right there), I can only imagine how she would react if he said anything remotely bad. That's why I previously said the narrative is being manipulated to absolve her of any accountability for all of this and making it all Peter's fault. And no, I'm not excusing Peter of any blame either, since he's been written ooc uring this entire debacle as well. But to ignore that MJ has been so cold to him is wrong. I'd expect after their entire history he would mean at least a little more to her than she'd have you believe.

Dude, you are saying the narrative is being MANIPULATED to absolve her of any accountability for all this. It's the narrative that is responsible for MJ acting this way in the first place. This is not the MJ we know. This is the narrative manipulating her character to act differently than she normally would. You would only expect the narrative to explain that away. If it doesn't, then it's just bad out of character writing with no excuse but to blame the writer.

Likewise, Peter started this run acting like a jerk to everyone around him. I would hope the narrative is "manipulated" to explain that away. Otherwise Peter just looks like a jerk and a bad person.

[Johnny]

Dude, you are saying the narrative is being MANIPULATED to absolve her of any accountability for all this. It's the narrative that is responsible for MJ acting this way in the first place. This is not the MJ we know. This is the narrative manipulating her character to act differently than she normally would. You would only expect the narrative to explain that away. If it doesn't, then it's just bad out of character writing with no excuse but to blame the writer.

Likewise, Peter started this run acting like a jerk to everyone around him. I would hope the narrative is "manipulated" to explain that away. Otherwise Peter just looks like a jerk and a bad person.

I would certainly hope so, otherwise I wonder what he did that was so bad to deserve being yelled at about responsibility for asking to have a cup of coffee with someone who is supposed to know what his stand on responsibility is better than anybody else. But since we keep being told their history doesn't mean much to her anymore, I guess none of that matters now.

[Frontier]

No one is firing on all cylinders in this run unless you're name is Tombstone.

[KangMiRae]

Nor sure what all the snark is for since you basically proved my point, Black Cat/Peter is the relationship going forward despite all the people bending themselves into pretzels trying to explain how Paul and the kids are showhow something they're not.

They're the new couple until they're not. That's why we're upset; it's a waste of everyone's time because we have to sit through this period of a character's history we don't like--and it's usually supplemented with mediocre writing, which makes it even worse and makes time feel like it's passing slowly. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if the writing during these bouts of MJ/Peter drama was fun, original, exciting, well-written--anything other than pedestrian and boring. But, like other people here have said, post-One More Day, the writing for ASM has been more miss and forgettable than hit.

[KangMiRae]

It also doesn't help that, while all this is going on, Marvel outsources Spider-Man's IP to other companies to create stories in different mediums that end up doing things more fun, exciting, and interesting than the current mainline comic. It just serves as ancillary disappoint and annoyance, lol.

[CaptainUniverse]

Interesting...

spoilers:

Apparently word through the grapevine is that Editor Nick Lowe is on his last legs, metaphorically speaking. Marvel is worried about ASM failing and if sales do not improve then Lowe is going to be ousted. Keep in mind that that was all BEFORE Disney fired Ike Perlmutter and absorbed Marvel Entertainment into the Disney Company proper. Now, to make matters even worse for him and potentially Marvel Editorial as a whole, it looks as if Disney is looking to restructure some teams. If this is true it means there are big changes ahead for Marvel Comics as a whole. Since it is a rumor, I would definitely take it with a grain of salt, but I thought I would share it anyways.

end of spoilers

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It also doesn't help that, while all this is going on, Marvel outsources Spider-Man's IP to other companies to create stories in different mediums that end up doing things more fun, exciting, and interesting than the current mainline comic. It just serves as ancillary disappoint and annoyance, lol.

Part of the reason Wells' run is getting so much hate is definitely because of the vastly superior adaptations right now.

[Johnny]

Interesting...

spoilers:

Apparently word through the grapevine is that Editor Nick Lowe is on his last legs, metaphorically speaking. Marvel is worried about ASM failing and if sales do not improve then Lowe is going to be ousted. Keep in mind that that was all BEFORE Disney fired Ike Perlmutter and absorbed Marvel Entertainment into the Disney Company proper. Now, to make matters even worse for him and potentially Marvel Editorial as a whole, it looks as if Disney is looking to restructure some teams. If this is true it means there are big changes ahead for Marvel Comics as a whole. Since it is a rumor, I would definitely take it with a grain of salt, but I thought I would share it anyways.

end of spoilers

If I may ask, where is this coming from?

For the record, I'm not rooting for anybody to lose their job no matter how bad they may or may not appear to be at it.

[CaptainUniverse]

If I may ask, where is this coming from?

For the record, I'm not rooting for anybody to lose their job no matter how bad they may or may not appear to be at it.

Neither am I, for the record.

spoilers:

4chan by way of someone calling themselves Bill Cipher, hence why I said take it with a grain of salt.

end of spoilers