"HERO of The HOPELESS!" The Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2023!

[MaximoffTrash]

Even though they were rubbish I wouldn't mind seeing the Examplars again, the whole idea of a "team" that has to work together so they can then destroy each other is a strange but interesting concept. Some more characterisation would help.

I like the basic idea of the Octessence are just bored and they are playing a round of complicated game of dick measuring(like literally they just want to know who is the most powerful) with the Earth's population as their gambling chips.
Beings like Chthon and Set might still have some sentimental side for Earth, it's still their home they had to fled from because of Gaea. Shuma-Gorath and Dormammu just want to conquer more territory. The Octessence on the other hand just see a fun game board to play with. Granted it's kinda similar to the Grandmaster, but the latter focus more on already outstanding individuals as his chess pieces.

[GenericUsername]

Im late to this party but thank you for this post. Couldn't say this better myself. I don't know where people get this notion from that character development and feats are somehow mutually exclusive. There is tons of evidence to the contrary. Far too much to even count.

This is comic books. Powers are an intrinsic part of every character. They aren't just something meaningless that is tucked on. They define the character. Thor wouldn't be where he is right now if he would be some random guy with a hammer instead of the God of Thunder and the same is true for every other character including Wanda of course.
And Wanda is neither low-tier nor mid-tier. She is high-tier. She is so powerful that even someone like Black Panther says she is the only member of the team that really gives him pause. It's just fact and the beauty in that is that it allows the character to be put in scenarios that wouldn't be possible otherwise and many others could not handle.

I was speaking on the subject of at will reality warpers which have all the evidence that they are defined by feats and turned into villains for the most part, and often isolated.

Even uber characters that aren't reality warpers get poor character depictions or are villainized.

Wanda isn't even powered down by having certain circumstances. She just takes more time sometimes and puts more thought into it.

Battle boards don't even matter anyway, because anyone can beat anyone else given the right conditions. That's how Batman wins often with "prep time."

[Galerion]

So coming back to what I said previously I will now go into what I meant with that. I will post some relevant pages here and considering the book and it's nature I wouldn't even call it a spoiler. Nonetheless I will now warn you straight up about this.
If you don't want to see anything from the Fantastic Four Annual then skip my post.







Still here? Good.



...that order is born




I love this entire setup. Chaos being the origin of everything. The first building block of existence. As an Elder Scrolls fan it really reminds me about Sithis, the Dread-Father and the Original Creator. The endless void that gave birth to existence as we know it. Not only is the idea itself cool but with it you can also pick up and addresses so many things and loose ends about Wanda and her powers of have been established over the years. Here are a few examples.



1. Wandas original power being probability manipulation: Unknown to her at the time she was tapping into the primordial forces of chaos whose power made even the most unlikely thing happen since chaos is nothing but change.

[Galerion]

2. Wandas reality warping: Chaos is synonymous with change and since that is part of everyone's existence Wanda can force change on others.




3. Wandas immortality: Chaos existed before everything else and will always exist. For a world without chaos would be a world of perfect order aka stasis. A state of being that cannot exist for it would be the end of all life as we know it. Therefore Wandas soul and mind will always live on in the dark void of chaos even if you manage to kill her physical body.




4. The sheer potency of chaos magic: Chaos is a primordial force of the universe and therefore its power is supreme. Even the mightiest of forces cannot claim victory or dominion over it for a world without chaos cannot exist.

[Galerion]

5. Wandas status as a Nexus Being: Since all magic requires chaos the one who masters the forces of chaos is the truly the focal point of all mystical energies.

[MaximoffTrash]

So coming back to what I said previously I will now go into what I meant with that. I will post some relevant pages here and considering the book and it's nature I wouldn't even call it a spoiler. Nonetheless I will now warn you straight up about this.
If you don't want to see anything from the Fantastic Four Annual then skip my post.







Still here? Good.



...that order is born




I love this entire setup. Chaos being the origin of everything. The first building block of existence. As an Elder Scrolls fan it really reminds me about Sithis, the Dread-Father and the Original Creator. The endless void that gave birth to existence as we know it. Not only is the idea itself cool but with it you can also pick up and addresses so many things and loose ends about Wanda and her powers of have been established over the years. Here are a few examples.



1. Wandas original power being probability manipulation: Unknown to her at the time she was tapping into the primordial forces of chaos whose power made even the most unlikely thing happen since chaos is nothing but change.

The ultimate creator deities of TES are technically Anu/Padomay/Nir trio and their respective "souls", for mortal plane specifically it's mainly kinda all of Et'Ada with Auriel/Lorkan/Magnus being the big three, pretty sure only Dark Brotherhood put Sithis in that much sole significance.(Like how they believe everyone goes to Sithis after death even though there are like a gazillion afterlige in TES universe.) It's more like the Godhead's internal conflict that give birth to the TES universe not just some primordial chaos and void.

As for the comic event itself, while it makes sense for chaos to be a fundamental force of the creation, I still don't like Marvel writers over-focusing on the creation force narrative and make everything the oldest, baddest, most powerful shit ever, they did it with White Tiger's Tiger God in Ultimates. That being said it's better handled in this chaos since they say chaos, not Chthon or any other chaos related gods/demons.

About Nexus Beings, now that you mentioned it, MU Wanda is a Nexus Being due to her access to chaos, while Lore is a necromancer, who masters the art of life and death, would be interesting if Lore is an AU Wanda who was actually snatched by Set who is of death and destruction.(like the event in Mystic Arcana)

Don't know if Valtorr will play into this, while not specified, he is kinda the lord of mist and decay. Guess it kinda fits into the overall theme a bit.

[Galerion]

The ultimate creator deities of TES are technically Anu/Padomay/Nir trio and their respective "souls", for mortal plane specifically it's mainly kinda all of Et'Ada with Auriel/Lorkan/Magnus being the big three, pretty sure only Dark Brotherhood put Sithis in that much sole significance.(Like how they believe everyone goes to Sithis after death even though there are like a gazillion afterlige in TES universe.) It's more like the Godhead's internal conflict that give birth to the TES universe not just some primordial chaos and void.

As for the comic event itself, while it makes sense for chaos to be a fundamental force of the creation, I still don't like Marvel writers over-focusing on the creation force narrative and make everything the oldest, baddest, most powerful shit ever, they did it with White Tiger's Tiger God in Ultimates. That being said it's better handled in this chaos since they say chaos, not Chthon or any other chaos related gods/demons.

About Nexus Beings, now that you mentioned it, MU Wanda is a Nexus Being due to her access to chaos, while Lore is a necromancer, who masters the art of life and death, would be interesting if Lore is an AU Wanda who was actually snatched by Set who is of death and destruction.(like the event in Mystic Arcana)

Don't know if Valtorr will play into this, while not specified, he is kinda the lord of mist and decay. Guess it kinda fits into the overall theme a bit.

TES lore can be well let's just say esoteric at times and with the way it's presented we will never know the truth thanks to unreliable narrators. Is the Dark Brotherhood wrong? Very well could be but we will never know the truth. What can be said without a doubt though is that the true power behind the DB is obviously the Night Mother who does exist and has power. That much is irrefutable. Believing her story about Sithis up for debate though.

But back to Wanda. It's exactly why I love this setup so much. Chaos as a fundamental force. It has no will, it has no voice, it has no consciousnesses, it doesn't choose to act or anything like that. It simply is. Wanda is called the Queen of Chaos and that needs to be given some real gravitas behind it. Chaos magic has already been established as the oldest form of magic and Leah Williams wrote it beautifully.



"That is was the first. The earliest primordial glint of cosmic understanding and happenstance"
"Chaos magic is neither purely constructive nor destructive -- it's not limited by good and evil."
"A balanced wheel moving between life and death. It's the possibility of both, neither and everything in between."


Chthon himself is simply such a threat because he has reached an unrivaled mastery over it and as he would use it for nefarious purposes he can never be allowed to roam free.


I remember people coming in here asking what her powers are. That's a problem. Mutant, probability manipulation, reality warper, magic, High Evolutionary experiment, nexus being, chosen vessel of an Elder God. Like this hodgepodge of things all were or still are true about her. And instead of taking the sledgehammer approach when it comes to retconning things, they are finally making an attempt at streamlining and making it all into one coherent vision. One that is 100% on the mystical side. I like it and I think it's needed. Not because I personally have a problem with it mind you but here is the thing. Wanda is a very big and popular character. She isn't going anywhere. If you have that kind of status then it needs to be immediately clear what a character is about.

Steve Rogers got the Super Soldier serum.
Thor is the God of Thunder.
Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider.
Tony Stark is a genius inventor.

Everyone knows about these things and they don't need any explanation at this point. You shouldn't need to read an entire wiki entry and then still have to ask others to fully grasp a character.
Now obviously much of this is still up in the air and wishful thinking since the story isn't finished yet but the hints are already there and I hope they pull through with it.

[Galerion]

Here is also an awesome piece from Stjepan Šejič
Might just be me but it also made realize that is a rare combination of characters despite all three of them being powerhouses in their respective categories. Be it cosmic, magic or mutant.

[MaximoffTrash]

Again, it's really just about what people think her power is, Busiek already wrapped up her powerset pretty well and people still gets confused. I don't see it getting better simply because Leah Williams did her lore dump at the end of a confusing and largely awful event.

Again Thor is God of Thunder, also son of Odin and Gaea, again power source and power itself are two separatred things.
Stephen does magic, and people don't complain about the dozens of entities he regularly invokes because they arbitrarily decide they don't need to know about all that but for Wanda that is somehow an issue? Like for her the manifestation of her power is PM/RW, with some traditional witchcraft. Is that really more complicated than Stephen's traditional sorcery of Vishanti plus the Octessence and bunch of other extradimensional entities plus his amulet and other trinkets?

If we are to simplify stuff I will just say she has the essence of chaos/Elder God and can do PM/RW.
Otherwise magic characters having thick ass lore is kinda just a natural thing for them.

[MaximoffTrash]

Here is also an awesome piece from Stjepan Šejič
Might just be me but it also made realize that is a rare combination of characters despite all three of them being powerhouses in their respective categories. Be it cosmic, magic or mutant.

I was trying to say the classic Warrior/Rogue/Mage RPG trio(they are like one warrior and two mages), then I kinda realize there aren't much uber powerful rogue archtype superheroes.
Shadow and stealth cannot be amped up to no end like strength and energy.

[GenericUsername]

I like Wanda partially for the complexity. It was part of the fun in finding out how her powers work. She's not basic nor boring. Her abilities are unique or work in unique ways.

I get that for others it can be hard to understand, but it creates more depth.

[Cubbyboo]

Here is also an awesome piece from Stjepan Šejič
Might just be me but it also made realize that is a rare combination of characters despite all three of them being powerhouses in their respective categories. Be it cosmic, magic or mutant.

I really love that costume on Wanda. It's distinctive with some throwback to the classic and still very very eye catching imho. I've seen that image before but what's it from? Thx

[Galerion]

Again, it's really just about what people think her power is, Busiek already wrapped up her powerset pretty well and people still gets confused. I don't see it getting better simply because Leah Williams did her lore dump at the end of a confused and largely awful event.

Again Thor is God of Thunder, also son of Odin and Gaea, again power source and power itself are two separatred things.
Stephen do magic, and people don't complain about the dozens of entities he regularly invokes because they arbitrary decide they don't need to know about all that but for Wanda that is somehow an issue? Like for her the manifestation of her power is PM/RW, with some traditional witchcraft. Is that really more complicated than Stephen's traditional sorcery of Vishanti plus the Octessence and bunch of other extradimensional entities plus his amulet and other trinkets?

If we are to simplify stuff I will just say she has the essence of chaos/Elder God and can do PM/RW.
Otherwise magic characters have thick ass lore is kinda just a natural thing for them.

Yes that should be the goal. Streamline. Not just adding or removing things. Nothing about Wanda really changes. It's just finally an in-universe explanation that addresses most of the random concepts and events that were thrown at Wanda over the years and brings them all under one banner.

Wanda can still cast normal magic spells like everybody else but chaos magic covers all that needs to be covered that makes her special and unique and it's still magic at the end of the day. It's still alien to non-mystics. Much of it is unexplored for good and obvious reasons. It's still complicated and it's still dangerous. As a matter of fact it's even more dangerous than other forms of magic. And lastly it's her own lore that she then possibly gets to explore just like Chthon is a Wanda villain primarily or the Vishanti are something only Strange concerns himself with.

There can be some overlap but there still should be clear lane. All the big solo characters have that. If Wanda is to be among them then there also needs to be stuff that you can only see in the Scarlet Witch franchise. Witchcraft is already a good step but there needs to be more. Building up chaos magic and what that actually means and how it all relates to Wanda should be the logical next step. I mean many people know that chaos magic is something Wanda has and that it makes her as powerful as she is yet you are hard pressed to actually find much lore on it. That simply needs to change.

I was trying to say the classic Warrior/Rogue/Mage RPG trio(they are like one warrior and two mages), then I kinda realize there aren't much uber powerful rogue archtype superheroes.
Shadow and stealth cannot be amped up to no end like strength and energy.

I mean it makes sense. The archetype is just very feast or famine by design. Either you are successful and have basically won already or you fail and are now in trouble. There is not much in between. I mean if you lack the ability to actually hurt someone than it doesn't matter how good you are at hiding and ambushing. The opponent will still no-sell everything you throw at them and whoop your ass in return. A common occurrence once you reach the high-tiers. Just look all the the demons that try to attack Wanda while she is sleeping. They still all end up in her collection instead

I like Wanda partially for the complexity. It was part of the fun in finding out how her powers work. She's not basic nor boring. Her abilities are unique or work in unique ways.

I get that for others it can be hard to understand, but it creates more depth.

I don't see what depth is being lost here by doing this. She is a witch now and will still be a witch after. Nothing about that changes.

I really love that costume on Wanda. It's distinctive with some throwback to the classic and still very very eye catching imho. I've seen that image before but what's it from? Thx

I honestly can't tell you. I saw it randomly on Twitter and I googled for a version with a better resolution. I don't think it's anything official.

[Cruelrain]

Any word on whether or not the book has been extended to 15 (I would almost think it has to have been)?

We didn't get a Peach Momoko variant cover for december so i'm a bit worried

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...nkId=231394977

[MaximoffTrash]

I mean it makes sense. The archetype is just very feast or famine by design. Either you are successful and have basically won already or you fail and are now in trouble. There is not much in between. I mean if you lack the ability to actually hurt someone than it doesn't matter how good you are at hiding and ambushing.

I guess telepathy, illusion, poison etc can all count as rogue skills. I guess super speed as well?
The stereotypical OP fantasy rogue is probably the type who spam invisibilty and short range teleportation and slit everyone's throat in a blitz.
I guess Wolverin's claws, Nightcrawler's teleportation(I say Kurt since he sometimes was a rogue pirate of some sort, and his power seemed to be more spammable) plus any speedster power would make a somewhat fearsome rogue archtype. Also maybe throw in Telepathy/Empathy for none-lethal option.