World's Greatest Comic: The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2023

[Frontier]

I don't think it's too late and the field they chose fits pretty well with the teams history. It's not a subject that would bring up many awkward questions in the teams history. A MD for example, would be a harder pill to swallow as many questions as to why she's never used her skills on the field would come up. Archaeology is nothing a broad yet specific field that it's application is less likely to have been needed in the teams history. So it doesn't negatively impact prior issues as other qualifications might.

There are so many horrible retcons that happen in comics all the time, and I don't think this is one of them. It gives the opportunity to expand on a character that desperately needed it. I think it's one of the few good ones. As for it's use, it depends on the writer. The spy thing was never going to have longevity because its solely based on her powers, not her personality, and it doesn't fit the objective of the Fantastic Four.

Archaeology, does fit the FF as scientific adventurers. It opens the door to more adventures for the team as well as Sue-focused adventures (something that is severely lacking). How often it's mentioned depends on the writer. North could have easily made it the focus of the issue, but he didn't. So I'm not worried about it being overused from him at least. I can imagine him giving her a few stories centered around it, but it likely won't be overused this run.

Maybe, just feels like something that would've probably been expressed more by now if it was apparently such a big part of her character (although I guess she's sometimes the most amazed and interested in some of the stuff they find in their adventures).

It's not like I think it's bad or anything, I just think it needs to be handled well and integrated into her normal personality without overwhelming her character.

I would at least say the spy thing was based around how she uses her powers and how proficient she is and how she plays into being invisible, so it was somewhat character-based.

[Mantis-Ray]

Man T-Rex Doom is like the absolute coolest shit ever.

Fucking fire man.

[Crimz]

Maybe, just feels like something that would've probably been expressed more by now if it was apparently such a big part of her character (although I guess she's sometimes the most amazed and interested in some of the stuff they find in their adventures).

It's not like I think it's bad or anything, I just think it needs to be handled well and integrated into her normal personality without overwhelming her character.

I would at least say the spy thing was based around how she uses her powers and how proficient she is and how she plays into being invisible, so it was somewhat character-based.

The sad truth is that there isn't really any character to overwhelm. Most writers have no clue what to fo with her and she usually has no personality or wants. Archaeology could be a necessary spark for writers to do more interesting things with the character and how she reacts/interacts with the world. Because decades of FF have taught us that writers need all the help they can get when writing Sue.

Gonna have to disagree with the spy stuff, it didn't really do anything with her character and was solely based on her powers. Her solo had fun moments, but because the whole concept was based on powers over character, it didn't do much in the long-run. The antagonist of the story had more development than Sue did which is an unfortunate pattern for her that I hope this new status quo finally breaks.

[Frontier]

The sad truth is that there isn't really any character to overwhelm. Most writers have no clue what to fo with her and she usually has no personality or wants. Archaeology could be a necessary spark for writers to do more interesting things with the character and how she reacts/interacts with the world. Because decades of FF have taught us that writers need all the help they can get when writing Sue.

Gonna have to disagree with the spy stuff, it didn't really do anything with her character and was solely based on her powers. Her solo had fun moments, but because the whole concept was based on powers over character, it didn't do much in the long-run. The antagonist of the story had more development than Sue did which is an unfortunate pattern for her that I hope this new status quo finally breaks.

I think Sue does have a distinct character, things she enjoys, dynamic with the family and other characters, and interests, they just aren't always overly emphasized in my opinion.

Agree to disagree, but I think the mini did a good job of showing Sue's character in as far as how she would operate as a spy. The powers were just there to look cool. She is the "Invisible Woman" after all .

[MichaelC]

This makes sense, I just think the problem is with how Marvel treats their scientists. If they were written more like real scientists, with having specified fields, then there would be no issue with Sue getting into biology. But, unfortunately they tend to write them as experts in everything science-related.
Reed is written as great in every aspect of science and no one is better. He may not be able to cure Ben, but that's not treated as a weakness in his biology knowledge. It's treated as an issue with Ben's unique physiology.

Sue being a biologist would unfortunately step into Reed's territory and the way the team is composed, she would eventually take a backseat to Reed coming up with whatever biological knowledge that saves the day. For it to work it would take a focused effort to make sure Reed is not as proficient in that field as Sue, and I don't see that happening unfortunately.

That shouldn't be, and really goes against how Richards was in the origin story: a theoretician who knew less about applied sciences than Ben, and whose arrogant refusal to see that got them all mutated, the applied sciences guy he ignored getting hit worst of all. That needs to come back.

[CaptCleghorn]

That shouldn't be, and really goes against how Richards was in the origin story: a theoretician who knew less about applied sciences than Ben, and whose arrogant refusal to see that got them all mutated, the applied sciences guy he ignored getting hit worst of all. That needs to come back.

I'm not sure if it should come back. We're talking about a story which occurred some 15-20 years in the characters' past. Reed's arrogance (your term, but I can't argue against it that much) has been seen and is currently part of his character. Reed's being more theoretical than applied is a quality that has changed over the years. He's had to actually do and make $#!+ over the last 700 issues. As for Ben getting hit the worst, Reed's guilt and Ben's anger have really worn themselves out from a story angle. I'm sure they still exist, but after all those story years, they must have been buried enough to allow the team to continue to function.

[Crimz]

I think Sue does have a distinct character, things she enjoys, dynamic with the family and other characters, and interests, they just aren't always overly emphasized in my opinion.

Agree to disagree, but I think the mini did a good job of showing Sue's character in as far as how she would operate as a spy. The powers were just there to look cool. She is the "Invisible Woman" after all .

She's been so consistently ignored outside of providing a spectacle of her powers, that she unfortunately didn't have interests outside of her family.

[Frontier]

She's been so consistently ignored outside of providing a spectacle of her powers, that she unfortunately didn't have interests outside of her family.

Well, social causes, fashion, gal pals, etc. but not really a passion outside her role as team mom, though that's also why the archaeology thing feels kind of thrown in to me.

But maybe it'll grow on me.

[Darkshadow]

There's been plenty of archeology related or adjacent adventures in 700 issues where she provided no expert input. It's also a field Reed has successfully dabbled in. This is shoe horned, but whatever. There wasn't a way any doctorate wasn't going to be...which makes the whole thing phony to me.

[Crimz]

There's been plenty of archeology related or adjacent adventures in 700 issues where she provided no expert input. It's also a field Reed has successfully dabbled in. This is shoe horned, but whatever. There wasn't a way any doctorate wasn't going to be...which makes the whole thing phony to me.

There's only been like a handful at best, and Reed is sometimes treated like an everything-ist which needed to end.

She was given a doctorate 10 years ago, the only change is that now it's defined instead of it being a nebulous accolade made to say that they updated her without actually doing it.

Also, it gives her more to do both in and out of the Fantastic Four, which has been a problem with the character for decades. Writers only used her for her powers or to play as a back-up to Reed's stories. Now she's more likely to her own adventures and stories.

It's been a long time coming if you ask me

[Frontier]

As long as she's still the emotional core of the team, I think it'll work out.

[Crimz]

As long as she's still the emotional core of the team, I think it'll work out.

I don't see any reason why she won't be. North even highlights that her interest in the subject is to learn about people, which fits Sue imo.

[Darkshadow]

There's only been like a handful at best, and Reed is sometimes treated like an everything-ist which needed to end.

She was given a doctorate 10 years ago, the only change is that now it's defined instead of it being a nebulous accolade made to say that they updated her without actually doing it.

Also, it gives her more to do both in and out of the Fantastic Four, which has been a problem with the character for decades. Writers only used her for her powers or to play as a back-up to Reed's stories. Now she's more likely to her own adventures and stories.

It's been a long time coming if you ask me

There have been dozens at least. Reed being the everythingist is convincing if he is truly the most intelligent being on Earth.

I'm aware it was introduced in vol 4. Perhaps the reason it was left nebulous then is precisely that there would not have been a doctorate field that the group had not already been challenged with where she provided no expert input. Hence, the whole thing is shoe horned in.

If this needed to be done, better character development would have been: her self discovery of wanting to go back and finish her education plan that she, perhaps, abandoned for modeling or full time FF adventuring. Let's watch HER go back to school instead of Johnny for the 3rd or 4th time. Speaking of Johnny: here issue 50 was wrapping up one of the most important comic sagas ever written, and what makes a blurb on the iconic cover? Johnny going to college...

Sue being awarded her Doctorate could have been treated as a major event that we all were along for the ride to see. This was handled poorly to me because either involved writer probably never thought they'd be around long enough to smoothly inlay it. So it just got dumped like a giant glob.

[Riv86672]

There's been plenty of archeology related or adjacent adventures in 700 issues where she provided no expert input. It's also a field Reed has successfully dabbled in. This is shoe horned, but whatever. There wasn't a way any doctorate wasn't going to be...which makes the whole thing phony to me.

^^^Exactly though; after 700 issues the FF have seen and done everything, been everywhere. Any doctorate was going to come under fire so, why not pick fun one. Archeology!

[Digifiend]

Man T-Rex Doom is like the absolute coolest shit ever.

Fucking fire man.

Isn't Valeria also a T-Rex, unlike Franklin who's a Triceratops? Are they trying to imply that Val is Doom's kid and not Reed's?