World's Greatest Comic: The Fantastic Four Appreciation 2023

[Ravin' Ray]

spoilers:

Merrill is from the Byrne run. Fantastic Four #233

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Ah thanks. That one slipped from my memory.

end of spoilers

[Steroid]

I personally really loved today's issue. It's great to see Johnny away from the family or Spider-man and doing his own thing. I'm excited for the rest of North's run because I like his voices for all the members and wonder what stories he'll come up with.

Couldn't possibly agree with you more. I don't think I have enjoyed a Fantastic Four series this much since Byrne's phenomenal run. North's run isn't on that level yet and probably never will be but I'm enjoying it nonetheless.

[Dermie]

Man, this issue made Johnny look like a chump though. And a weakling. Come on. He was an Avenger!

I don't think it made him look like a chump spoilers:

after all, he was the one who came up with the plan to win in the end. As for a weakling...again, I don't think so. Sure, Johnny is a well built, strong guy...but he's still just human when it comes to strength. As was stated in the issue, Merrill was stronger than him...and although Johnny has years of combat experience as a member of the FF (and his brief stint as an Avenger) he is mostly used to fighting with his powers. That advantage was taken away from him unexpectedly--leaving him on the defensive against someone who is stronger than he is and with more experience fighting physically. If Johnny had more time to react, he could have fought back more effectively...but Merill caught him off guard when he called Johnny's bluff with his flame, and then moments later Merill kicked him through the window. And its not as if Johnny beating him up would have solved anything anyway--that wasn't a problem Johnny could solve with his fists. He had hoped to intimidate Merrill into changing his behaviour--and once it became clear THAT wasn't going to work, Johnny need to go and come up with another plan. Flying back into Merrill's apartment and showing his own fighting prowess wasn't going to accomplish anything.

end of spoilers

[Digifiend]

Sure, Johnny's not the brains of the FF, but that doesn't mean he's a total thicko. He does know things.

[Crimz]

I've really enjoyed that every issue had them save the day by thinking outside of the box. They didn't just punch the problems away like most superhero stories do. It really fits the 'family of explorers' aspect of the team

[CaptCleghorn]

I've really enjoyed that every issue had them save the day by thinking outside of the box. They didn't just punch the problems away like most superhero stories do. It really fits the 'family of explorers' aspect of the team

All three issues so far have had the FF thinking and working in ways they don't usually do. I may be cynical in this, but I strongly suspect that North is letting us know what his idea of the characters are. It doesn't fit the FF as explorers so much as it fits them as more defined people, capable of so much more than a costume and a list of powers on a handbook page. The style and resolutions of the tales are reminiscent of North's Unbeatable Squirrel Girl. We've seen some standard bigger superhero stories from him before, but he's starting his FF run with his strengths. I got this feeling from Claremont's early FF's as well.

The FF have a huge dichotomy with family and home vs. exploration of the unknown. This isn't like Slott's neon sign signaling FAMILY, but it's what brought the FF to the forefront when other heroes home lives were pretty much keeping friends from discovering their secret identities. Still, I'd like to see something big for 700.

[jwatson]

Another strong issue. Really looking forward to issue #4. And glad we are suppose to find out exactly what happened in issue 4 of ff 4 and it's not being dragged out. The art was really nice here and it was nice to get a clear view on the personality of johnny here. Though people looking close to his age or no more than 40 calling him kid kind of kept making me wonder "well how old is he suppose to look." but that's just me.

I particularly liked that though johnny is aloof it showed he wasn't dumb. i could just imagine how reed explained his satellite plan to him and not only was he able to gleam the jist but simplify it. lol

[scribbleMind]

Posted this in the wrong thread

[Chris0013]

I don't think it made him look like a chump spoilers:

after all, he was the one who came up with the plan to win in the end. As for a weakling...again, I don't think so. Sure, Johnny is a well built, strong guy...but he's still just human when it comes to strength. As was stated in the issue, Merrill was stronger than him...and although Johnny has years of combat experience as a member of the FF (and his brief stint as an Avenger) he is mostly used to fighting with his powers. That advantage was taken away from him unexpectedly--leaving him on the defensive against someone who is stronger than he is and with more experience fighting physically. If Johnny had more time to react, he could have fought back more effectively...but Merill caught him off guard when he called Johnny's bluff with his flame, and then moments later Merill kicked him through the window. And its not as if Johnny beating him up would have solved anything anyway--that wasn't a problem Johnny could solve with his fists. He had hoped to intimidate Merrill into changing his behaviour--and once it became clear THAT wasn't going to work, Johnny need to go and come up with another plan. Flying back into Merrill's apartment and showing his own fighting prowess wasn't going to accomplish anything.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I would say after Johnny's long life in the super hero game he should have learned to throw hands by now. Not saying he should be Steve Rogers or Matt Murdock level...but a guy like Merrill...even if a little bigger and stronger than him...should not be someone he needs to use powers to fight.

end of spoilers

[Dermie]

spoilers:

I would say after Johnny's long life in the super hero game he should have learned to throw hands by now. Not saying he should be Steve Rogers or Matt Murdock level...but a guy like Merrill...even if a little bigger and stronger than him...should not be someone he needs to use powers to fight.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I agree that Johnny should have some fighting skill. That still doesn't mean that a non-powered criminal like Merrill, who is far more used to fighting hand to hand, won't be able to outmatch him. In any case, in the first confrontation Johnny was caught off guard and then kicked out the window. There really wasn't an opportunity for Johnny to rally and fight back with his rarely-used hand to hand fighting skills. And in the second confrontation, Johnny was just serving as a distraction so fighting him really wasn't the point there. Just beating Merrill up wouldn't have succeeded in actually beating him, so Johnny was fighting with his brain, not his fists.

end of spoilers

[danielsan52]

spoilers:

I would say after Johnny's long life in the super hero game he should have learned to throw hands by now. Not saying he should be Steve Rogers or Matt Murdock level...but a guy like Merrill...even if a little bigger and stronger than him...should not be someone he needs to use powers to fight.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Exactly my point. The guy was an Avenger!

end of spoilers

[Chris0013]

spoilers:

I agree that Johnny should have some fighting skill. That still doesn't mean that a non-powered criminal like Merrill, who is far more used to fighting hand to hand, won't be able to outmatch him. In any case, in the first confrontation Johnny was caught off guard and then kicked out the window. There really wasn't an opportunity for Johnny to rally and fight back with his rarely-used hand to hand fighting skills. And in the second confrontation, Johnny was just serving as a distraction so fighting him really wasn't the point there. Just beating Merrill up wouldn't have succeeded in actually beating him, so Johnny was fighting with his brain, not his fists.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I am making the point more in the general sense as opposed to just this story. With his history in the super hero business he should have learned to be more than just his powers...as well with someone like Ben to train him, he should be able to throw a punch and take a punch.

end of spoilers

[cmore]

spoilers:

I am making the point more in the general sense as opposed to just this story. With his history in the super hero business he should have learned to be more than just his powers...as well with someone like Ben to train him, he should be able to throw a punch and take a punch.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm sure Johnny mentioned in one of the early stories that he'd taken some fight training from Ben. Unfortunately, I can't remember the issue, but it was way back during the Lee/Kirby era. So I guess he either didn't want to fight back for some reason, or that he's forgotten everything Ben taught him.

end of spoilers

[Chris0013]

spoilers:

I'm sure Johnny mentioned in one of the early stories that he'd taken some fight training from Ben. Unfortunately, I can't remember the issue, but it was way back during the Lee/Kirby era. So I guess he either didn't want to fight back for some reason, or that he's forgotten everything Ben taught him.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

To me that just means it is time for a serious refresher on hand to hand combat

end of spoilers

[Crimz]

spoilers:

There's a difference between having some off and on training and being a proficient fighter. Based on what Merrill said, he has been training all the years since he last saw Johnny. That plus his size would make it very believable that he could beat Johnny up.

end of spoilers