IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[Reviresco]

So this brings us back to a couple things:

1) How would you write a "Sub-Mariner: The End" story yourself. This could either be a story that is the culmination of how you see Namor's character and world coming to a satisfying conclusion, OR just a fun AU that you'd feel would be a great arc for an "End" type story. Like a Subby version of Days of Future Past or something similar.

2) I still want to hear people's views or opinions on the origin of water-breathing Atlanteans and the hows and why's of their creation. Including you, Rev.

Oh dear.

I need to post those Marvel Spotlight pages. heheheh

What do you think about the addition of Cleito (definitely an Earth Mother aspect) and the a shard of the Nexus of Realities being part of the pre-Cataclysm Atlantis mythos?

[Doombot]

Oh dear.

I need to post those Marvel Spotlight pages. heheheh

What do you think about the addition of Cleito (definitely an Earth Mother aspect) and the a shard of the Nexus of Realities being part of the pre-Cataclysm Atlantis mythos?

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean there's so little to go on, there's not much to feel either way. Imperius Wrecked has ideas about Cleito and ancient Atlantis too. I'm not too keen on leaning too heavily into the mythological for Atlantean origins, same for any other outside influence like aliens or Eternals/Deviants, as I want Atlantis to have come about as a civilization on it's own. It's enough (for me) that sorcery and magic are real in the MU and that the Atlanteans have literally met their gods.

As for a piece of the Nexus. Uh, I dunno.. continue?.. lol

[Reviresco]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean there's so little to go on, there's not much to feel either way. Imperius Wrecked has ideas about Cleito and ancient Atlantis too. I'm not too keen on leaning too heavily into the mythological for Atlantean origins, same for any other outside influence like aliens or Eternals/Deviants, as I want Atlantis to have come about as a civilization on it's own. It's enough (for me) that sorcery and magic are real in the MU and that the Atlanteans have literally met their gods.

As for a piece of the Nexus. Uh, I dunno.. continue?.. lol

LOL! IIRC, Namor ended up giving it to Man-Thing.

Well, I think we can safely say is that the pre-cataclysm Atlantis DID have warning of the impending destruction (however it happened). Plus, we know there were survivors. So, they could have created a way to become water breathers, which I think SHOULD involve magic and science. The question then becomes, why would they go with water breathing? Did they think the whole planet was going under? I mean, there was another, fairly advanced continent, Thuria, IIRC. Of course, it too was effected.

[Doombot]

Thuria was the mainland that Kull conquered, if I remember right. I do remember learning about Kull of Atlantis as a kid and being all excited until I learned he was from Atlantis, an exile, and not King of Atlantis, then being super bummed out. Even though I absolutely love sword and sorcery stories, the Rober E Howard world or continents were always super goofy to me, and I don't really consider them a real part of history in Marvel. At least in how they're described in those stories. I'm much more inclined to believe they were simply older civilizations, cultural and ethnic regions of the world geographically as it is now, just 20,000 year old maps and understandings of the world weren't exactly cutting edge. The continents can not have had such drastic changes in tens of thousands of years. I can get behind the fantasy stories of lost continents being sunk, but the entire world being so physically different just 18,000-20,000yrs ago is not believable.

[dzub]

So this brings us back to a couple things:

1) How would you write a "Sub-Mariner: The End" story yourself. This could either be a story that is the culmination of how you see Namor's character and world coming to a satisfying conclusion, OR just a fun AU that you'd feel would be a great arc for an "End" type story. Like a Subby version of Days of Future Past or something similar.

Namor outliving everyone (some exceptions: Thor goes back to Asgard, Surfer well surfs the Cosmos) ends with earth going back to a water world and life beginning from the oceans again.

[Reviresco]

Thuria was the mainland that Kull conquered, if I remember right. I do remember learning about Kull of Atlantis as a kid and being all excited until I learned he was from Atlantis, an exile, and not King of Atlantis, then being super bummed out. Even though I absolutely love sword and sorcery stories, the Rober E Howard world or continents were always super goofy to me, and I don't really consider them a real part of history in Marvel. At least in how they're described in those stories. I'm much more inclined to believe they were simply older civilizations, cultural and ethnic regions of the world geographically as it is now, just 20,000 year old maps and understandings of the world weren't exactly cutting edge. The continents can not have had such drastic changes in tens of thousands of years. I can get behind the fantasy stories of lost continents being sunk, but the entire world being so physically different just 18,000-20,000yrs ago is not believable.

Too much logical thinking about this, Doombot! ;p

Yeah, in my reading on this subject, it noted how REH made Atlantis like the home of barbarians or something, and the home of Kull. Valusia, on Thuria, was the advanced society, that the 'barbarian' Kull conquered. Of course, they didn't adopt that part in the MU histories, but it's still in the Kull comics, I believe. Part of this is due to so many retcons.

[Reviresco]

Namor outliving everyone (some exceptions: Thor goes back to Asgard, Surfer well surfs the Cosmos) ends with earth going back to a water world and life beginning from the oceans again.

So, sort of like the beginning of Conquered Shores?

[Doombot]

Too much logical thinking about this, Doombot! ;p

Yeah, in my reading on this subject, it noted how REH made Atlantis like the home of barbarians or something, and the home of Kull. Valusia, on Thuria, was the advanced society, that the 'barbarian' Kull conquered. Of course, they didn't adopt that part in the MU histories, but it's still in the Kull comics, I believe. Part of this is due to so many retcons.

Part of this is because, I believe, that the time of Kull was some centuries before Atlantis grew as a power and civilization, the one we think of as pre-Cataclysm Atlantis. In Kull's time it's still considered a wild place full of barbarians like Kull himself.

[Ravin' Ray]

LOL! Namora and Namorita being the same person.

Heh, imagine Johnny Storm dating Namora with her personality. He and Namorita were really an item for a while.

[Reviresco]

Heh, imagine Johnny Storm dating Namora with her personality. He and Namorita were really an item for a while.

O_O

I don't think Johnny is ready for that ... Not to mention, what's he going to say to Nita when she sees them together. heheheh

[Reviresco]

Part of this is because, I believe, that the time of Kull was some centuries before Atlantis grew as a power and civilization, the one we think of as pre-Cataclysm Atlantis. In Kull's time it's still considered a wild place full of barbarians like Kull himself.

Ah. I forgot about that. Atlantis didn't sink for quite a while after Kull. Need to look that up.

[Doombot]

Thinking about Kull again, I remember I wanted to have a story line (in my own attempt to fix the Sub-Mariner world, which I posted parts of here some years ago) I had Namor collecting all manner of art, artifacts and ancient items of every type from the ruins of fallen Atlantis to take back to his secret "sacred city' Atlantis he had nearly finished in the gigantic caverns beneath the sea floor at the base of Antarctica. At the opening of the story, Namor is called to an excavation site where one of his teams has discovered a large ancient statue of a seated Atlantean king. They suspect it is of Kull. Much later in the story, it would be discovered the statue was indeed Kull and Kull himself had the statue created to hide, within it's base, the skull of Thusa Doom. The Savage Avengers later had Dr Strange, Dr Doom and Conan fight a reborn Kulan Gath and stole my thunder lol.

[Reviresco]

Thinking about Kull again, I remember I wanted to have a story line (in my own attempt to fix the Sub-Mariner world, which I posted parts of here some years ago) I had Namor collecting all manner of art, artifacts and ancient items of every type from the ruins of fallen Atlantis to take back to his secret "sacred city' Atlantis he had nearly finished in the gigantic caverns beneath the sea floor at the base of Antarctica. At the opening of the story, Namor is called to an excavation site where one of his teams has discovered a large ancient statue of a seat Atlantean king. They suspect it is of Kull. much later in the story, it would be discovered the statue was indeed Kull and Kull himself had the statue created to hide, within it's base, the skull of Thusa Doom. The Savage Avengers later had Dr Strange, Dr Doom and Conan fight a reborn Kulan Gath and stole my thunder lol.

Oh wow! That would be a great adventure story! It could be some other artifact ... though, it is hard to top Thulsa Doom! I still need to read Savage Avengers.

Maybe it could be some artifact that has connections to Suma-Ket or the Hickman's Old Kings of Atlantis?

[Reviresco]

All right. Prepare for the wildest cause of the cataclysm that sank ancient Atlantis! The set up is that for reasons explained in the previous issue, in a conflict with Hellstrom, a giant firey serpent (Kometes) is created and sits in the sky. Natural disasters start occurring. Hellstrom and his associates research and discover the last time the serpent appeared was the day before the cataclysm that sank Atlantis. So, of course, Hellstrom's solution is to travel back in time to Atlantis and talk to Zhered-Na. She ends up taking him to the astral plane.

From Marvel Spotlight 17:

[Reviresco]